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Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

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TheDemSocialist

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KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Thousands have signed two separate petitions that would classify Topeka’s Westboro Baptist Church as a hate group and strip it of its tax exempt status. The petitions were started after members of Westboro announced plans to protest a Sunday vigil in Newtown, Conn.
Anonymous didn’t stop there. Using its Twitter account, Anonymous asked its followers to sign a petition that would investigate the IRS tax-exempt status of the church. As stated on the White House website, the petition claims: “The Westboro Baptist Church is better-known for homophobic displays, suing people and picketing funerals than for providing Christian care to a community. Due to their harassment and politicking, their IRS tax-exempt status should be immediately investigated.”
Another petition aims at stripping Westboro of its “religious” affiliation and classifying it as a hate group. As stated in part on the White House website, Westboro’s “actions have been directed at many groups, including homosexuals, military, Jewish people and even other Christians. They pose a threat to the welfare and treatment of others and will not improve without some form of imposed regulation.”
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Read more @: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions | fox4kc.com

Westboro has a challenge now. As i Kansas and a sane citizen I gladly signed both petitions and hope you do as well.
 
Ikari said:
I don't live in Kansas, but I would refuse. Politically motivated attacks against free exercise of rights is sickening, IMO.
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The point is their tax exempt status, as they claim to be a "religious" organization when in reality they are a "hate" organization. IMO, they are NOT entitled to tax exempt status.
 
I don't think any church should be 100% tax exempt. Exempt their charity works, certainly...but the rest of their income should be taxed.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions | fox4kc.com

Westboro has a challenge now. As i Kansas and a sane citizen I gladly signed both petitions and hope you do as well.
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while i agree with you much more often than not, on this occasion, it is a naught:
... Anonymous asked its followers to sign a petition that would investigate the IRS tax-exempt status of the church. As stated on the White House website, the petition claims: “The Westboro Baptist Church is better-known for homophobic displays, suing people and picketing funerals than for providing Christian care to a community. Due to their harassment and politicking, their IRS tax-exempt status should be immediately investigated.” ...
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where does this end if we consent to the fabrication of artificial reasons to deprive individuals and organizations the right to free speech
certainly, the westboro morons are an easy target
but then precedent is established
how long until the next prohibition against free speech is directed at those who would dare criticize the government
this is a very dangerous slippery slope
proceed with utmost caution
 
justabubba said:
while i agree with you much more often than not, on this occasion, it is a naught:

where does this end if we consent to the fabrication of artificial reasons to deprive individuals and organizations the right to free speech
certainly, the westboro morons are an easy target
but then precedent is established
how long until the next prohibition against free speech is directed at those who would dare criticize the government
this is a very dangerous slippery slope
proceed with utmost caution
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How is objecting to their TAX EXEMPT STATUS, interfering in their right to free speech? Clearly it is not.
 
ChrisL said:
The point is their tax exempt status, as they claim to be a "religious" organization when in reality they are a "hate" organization. IMO, they are NOT entitled to tax exempt status.
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No, you don't like the actions of this Church and are trying to find a backdoor method through which you can use government to suppress it. Either churches have tax exempt status or they don't. That's it. It's not a toy, it's not a lever you get to pull to torque the system, it's not a manipulated variable.
 
By signing the petitions I'm not in any way thinking I'm trying to suppress anyone's freedom of speech.

If they stayed within the walls of their church they could say anything they wanted to and I would not care.

What the WBC does is despicable and beyond reproach and I have no qualms about sending investigators to look into some things that might make their lives more difficult and miserable.
 
Ikari said:
No, you don't like the actions of this Church and are trying to find a backdoor method through which you can use government to suppress it. Either churches have tax exempt status or they don't. That's it. It's not a toy, it's not a lever you get to pull to torque the system, it's not a manipulated variable.
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Please tell me about the charity work this church performs. That is WHY churches have tax exempt status.
 
ChrisL said:
Please tell me about the charity work this church performs. That is WHY churches have tax exempt status.
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Actually, no.....

Churches are tax exempt under the principle that there is no surer way to destroy the free exercise of religion than to tax it. If the government is allowed to tax churches (or to condition a tax exemption on a church refraining from the free exercise of religion), the camel's nose is under the tent, and its body is sure to follow. But that's not just my opinion; it's the understanding of the U.S. Supreme Court.
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In its 1970 opinion in Walz vs. Tax Commission of the City of New York, the high court stated that a tax exemption for churches "creates only a minimal and remote involvement between church and state and far less than taxation of churches. [An exemption] restricts the fiscal relationship between church and state, and tends to complement and reinforce the desired separation insulating each from the other." The Supreme Court also said that "the power to tax involves the power to destroy." Taxing churches breaks down the healthy separation of church and state and leads to the destruction of the free exercise of religion.
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ChrisL said:
Please tell me about the charity work this church performs. That is WHY churches have tax exempt status.
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What charity work does Scientology have? That waste of time, insult to human intelligence, scam of a "religion" has tax-exempt. As far as I'm concerned, so long as Scientology has tax-exempt status; everyone can.

But regardless, this is politically motivated and you know it. This isn't because of some charity work, how many churches which are tax-exempt do the necessary amount of charity? This is because people do not like their message, that is clear and simple. And on that front, this is a disgusting attempt to try to punish through government force the exercise of rights.
 
ChrisL said:
How is objecting to their TAX EXEMPT STATUS, interfering in their right to free speech? Clearly it is not.
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what you embrace is a willingness to tolerate a church's non-profit status only as long as it does not publicly express views that you find repugnant
'negative control', the rescission of non-profit status in this instance, is still control. control imposed only because you (and other petition signers) disagree with their publicly stated views
hopefully, you do not embrace the beliefs and statements of the KKK. but hopefully - again - you also recognize the KKK has a right to publicly express such reprehensible views
same thing
 
Ikari said:
What charity work does Scientology have? That waste of time, insult to human intelligence, scam of a "religion" has tax-exempt. As far as I'm concerned, so long as Scientology has tax-exempt status; everyone can.

But regardless, this is politically motivated and you know it. This isn't because of some charity work, how many churches which are tax-exempt do the necessary amount of charity? This is because people do not like their message, that is clear and simple. And on that front, this is a disgusting attempt to try to punish through government force the exercise of rights.
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Perhaps it is, but I am objecting to their tax exempt status. This organization is a hate group disguising itself behind the word "church."
 
justabubba said:
what you embrace is a willingness to tolerate a church's non-profit status only as long as it does not publicly express views that you find repugnant
'negative control', the rescission of non-profit status in this instance, is still control. control imposed only because you (and other petition signers) disagree with their publicly stated views
hopefully, you do not embrace the beliefs and statements of the KKK. but hopefully - again - you also recognize the KKK has a right to publicly express such reprehensible views
same thing
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They can say whatever they want, but they are still not a "church." They are a hate group, clearly.
 
ChrisL said:
Perhaps it is, but I am objecting to their tax exempt status. This organization is a hate group disguising itself behind the word "church."
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Scientology is a hate group based in ignorance and scamming their parishioners, yet they're continued to exist.

This is not a legitimate lever, you do not get to hold the purse of a church hostage till they do as you say, sorry. That is not right, and not in line with the free exercise of rights and liberties.
 
Ikari said:
Scientology is a hate group based in ignorance and scamming their parishioners, yet they're continued to exist.

This is not a legitimate lever, you do not get to hold the purse of a church hostage till they do as you say, sorry. That is not right, and not in line with the free exercise of rights and liberties.
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That would be the case if they were actually a church. Hey, I wonder when the KKK will start calling itself a church? Maybe I should start MY own church! For goodness sake, they're all relatives. I could get my relatives to be my parishioners too. LOL!

Sorry, there is a difference between a church and a hate group. I think they should have to prove they are actually a legitimate church that actually benefits the community before getting any tax exemptions.
 
ChrisL said:
That would be the case if they were actually a church. Hey, I wonder when the KKK will start calling itself a church? Maybe I should start MY own church! For goodness sake, they're all relatives. I could get my relatives to be my parishioners too. LOL!

Sorry, there is a difference between a church and a hate group. I think they should have to prove they are actually a legitimate church that actually benefits the community before getting any tax exemptions.
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Scientology is a Church, I suppose the KKK could be one if they make up a ludicrous story as well. And this is a Church, Baptist to be precise, which is an established and recognized religion. You just want to label this one as a hate group. Sure this one goes out and protests more loudly than any other; but does that mean that no other church spouts this sort of rhetoric? Do we go to all churches which express such rhetoric and revoke tax exempt status? How many other groups do you theists talk out against? How much more can be considered "hate speech", should anyone you thinks that hate speech is coming from a church be able to revoke that Church's tax exempt status?
 
Are you suggesting that Westboro Baptist Church is representative of mainstream Christianity?

Ikari said:
Scientology is a Church, I suppose the KKK could be one if they make up a ludicrous story as well. And this is a Church, Baptist to be precise, which is an established and recognized religion. You just want to label this one as a hate group. Sure this one goes out and protests more loudly than any other; but does that mean that no other church spouts this sort of rhetoric? Do we go to all churches which express such rhetoric and revoke tax exempt status? How many other groups do you theists talk out against? How much more can be considered "hate speech", should anyone you thinks that hate speech is coming from a church be able to revoke that Church's tax exempt status?
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ChrisL said:
IMO, if you are going to claim to be a church and get a tax exemption for it, there should be SOME qualifications, such as you do things to help your community, and other such things. I mean really, what's to stop the KKK from claiming they are a church too?
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What indeed? Probably the public perception that they couldn't be a church. But Scientology is a Church, so anyone can be a church.
 
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