i got no problem with that.
Mao, Stalin, Hirohito, Franco, Mussolini, Tito, Hitler,....they were all the devil.
Surprising. So do you agree that both Naziism and communism have been blights on our world?....
have I ever said anything to the contrary???????????????
Please, enough with this 'watered-down' stuff. By watered-down, do you mean...not as extreme? In today's world, it seems as if you have to pick either anarchism, fascism, neoliberalism, or communism. Anything in between is 'watered-down.'Wake said:Question: What do you think about socialism, which is a watered-down version of communism?
Please, enough with this 'watered-down' stuff. By watered-down, do you mean...not as extreme? In today's world, it seems as if you have to pick either anarchism, fascism, neoliberalism, or communism. Anything in between is 'watered-down.'
No, only in the authoritarian versions of communism. Communist thinkers, such as Marx, were not authoritarian people.Wake said:Do you have anything of relevance to add? Socialism is a watered-down version of communism. Under communism you get killed for defying authority.
At times it'd seem you supported communism, or at least defended it.
Question: What do you think about socialism, which is a watered-down version of communism?
No, only in the authoritarian versions of communism. Communist thinkers, such as Marx, were not authoritarian people.
which Socialism? there is more than one kind, ya know.
No. I am not going to tell you that. What I am going to say, is that Marxism is not authoritarian in theory. Hypothetically, there exist forms of communism with highly varying degrees of authoritarianism. This is not to say that this is also true in practice.
Yes, many radical leftists, claiming to be socially liberal, suddenly become authoritarian when in political office. This is also true for socially liberal right-wingers, and all other social liberals. This authoritarianism occurs at various levels, depending on how radical the politician's ideology actually is. It is easier to be socially liberal in opposition than in office.Wake said:Marxism may not be authoritarian in theory, yet it becomes so when people actually use the theory and enforce its citizens t live under it. Communism is supposedly good in theory, yet people keep dying or are subjugated/oppressed when it's finally applied in the real world.
There are over 12 types, yes, because different people come up with different versions. If you think communism in general is bad, how about socialism? I am not well-versed in socialism, and I realize there are some good concepts of socialism (I think), but sometimes socialism is used in terrible ways, as in Naziism.
There are also philosophical reason I disagree with socialism. One being that it tries to create a utopia, which is impossible.
11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.
15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.
17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
But militarism, nationalism, and reactionary social policies are not normally associated with left-wing governments, which is why it makes no sense to call Hitler a leftist.
1. we aren't talking about Hitler in particular, but Nazi's in general. Though Hitler himself was definitely a man of the left.
2. the Nazis did not push reactionary social policy - in fact, they were quite "new age". they attacked the notion of the family as the fundamental unit of society, they supported childbirth out of wedlock, they opposed the traditional role of the Christian Church, were often pagan-oriented themselves, and so on and so forth.
3. militarism was absolutely part and parcel of the political left. In particular, militarism attracted them because it gave them carte blanche to reorganize society as they saw fit. In this nation, for example, War Socialism became the model for an active peacetime role for the state in the economy.
4. Nationalism, similarly, was solidly ensconced in the political left, as was its' political cousin, the science of racism.
I don't think it's clear Hitler was a man of the left. In the early days, yes. But we don't know what Hitler's true ideological convictions were after he came to power, because they were so different from that of his early political career.
They attacked the family as the fundamental unit of society?
I don't see this at all. They wanted women to have as many children as possible
There was a special breeding program for Aryan couples that did involve having children out of wedlock, but that was just a program of the SS.
The SS as a whole did not represent the Nazi party, but it did represent it's more radical elements.
When I say "radical", I mean from the standpoint of trying to ensure the most "racially pure" Aryans were born in the greatest number.
Paganism was just Himmler's idea of replacing Christianity with a more Germanic, and less Jewish, religion.
It certainly was not a policy that the National Socialists were trying to pursue as a whole. The reason that the churches were persecuted during the war is because people like Martin Niemöller openly criticized the regime. The National Socialists tolerated religion as long as it didn't question their policies.
You're going to have to do better than that to show that militarism is a common feature of leftist governments. In Germany, the militarists were the most conservative elements, such as the military and industrialists. These people were not leftists by any stretch of the imagination.
So the Social Democrats and communists in Germany had significant racist and nationalist elements among them when compared to the right wing parties? How about the Liberal and Labour parties in Britain? The Democrats in the U.S? These were all leftist parties. I know as a extreme conservative, you have every incentive to demonize liberalism in any way possible, but the assertions you're making are just ridiculous.
There is a difference , but not that much ,between "intellectualism" and "thinking for ones-self"..But extremism accepts neither..except its own sick agenda...You think Communism isn't?
But there is "one so blind that he cannot see."This is from your source,
:lamo
Like I said, there's no such thing as the, "religious right".
Its too difficult for a true/deep thinker to be authoritarian...Which is why I am an independent....as much as I support liberalism.No, only in the authoritarian versions of communism. Communist thinkers, such as Marx, were not authoritarian people.
Yes there is, even in out own nation, there are some communist communities, also in India, as I recall....Our own Amish have many communist traits...What version of communism isn't authoritarian? You need the government to enforce the communistic lifestyle, and communistic nations tend to have at least one dictator. Mao, Stalin, etc. Let me guess, you're going to tell me there's peaceful versions of communism that don't regulate/order people?
Were the Nazi Party of Germany a right wing or left wing establishment?
I figure this is a better place to discuss than on someone else's thread like we were
Opinions?
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