We're Going to Give Away Artillery Which We Cannot Spare! Why?

[NolanVoyd]

NolanVoyd:

Canada has troops on the ground in Latvia. The force there only has a single battery of 6 X M777s to support it. They need our guns far more than the Ukrainians do. Send the Ukrainians LAVs. We've got plenty of those to spare. We need to buy more M777s, not give them away.

Bad job Trudeau.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

You can't be serious!!!!!!

 

[StillBallin75]

I didn't say they were useless. I said they'd do more harm than good. If we're going to support Ukraine with weaponry, which I don't think we should be doing, then focusing on more direct fire weapons would be better, like anti-tank missiles and such.

We're already giving them a ****ton more stingers and Javelins. Which still doesn't preclude the use of artillery, which is still a game-changer because indirect fire always creates more dilemma.

And while I obviously don't condone targeting civilians, when your side is the one being invaded by the aggressor, separatist civilian casualties are a secondary consideration.

I mean, we (as in the US) are the ones generally doing the invading, and we have a **** ton of precision munitions and high tech shit that are supposed to limit collateral damage yet we end up killing a ****ton of innocent wedding goers anyway. Not really sure it's our place to prevaricate over the Ukrainians wanting artillery when it's their actual national existence at stake, when we've killed so many innocent people over forever wars of choice.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Because it's not our place to be involved, it runs the risk of escalating the war to what end we don't know, and it is causing greater human loss than saving. Add in that Ukraine isn't being run by an amazingly moral government that deserves all the adulation it's getting is just garnish next to the steak.

Of course it is our place to oppose evil.

Of course it is our place to be involved.

 

[Fledermaus]

My first reaction: The entirety of the Canadian Army only has 37 triple 7s???

My second reaction: Forreal though who y'all tryna kill, some caribou?

Cariboom?

 

[StillBallin75]

NolanVoyd:

Canada has troops on the ground in Latvia. The force there only has a single battery of 6 X M777s to support it. They need our guns far more than the Ukrainians do. Send the Ukrainians LAVs. We've got plenty of those to spare. We need to buy more M777s, not give them away.

Bad job Trudeau.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

The Ukrainians ACTUALLY fighting the Russians, are in LESS need of howitzers than the Canadian troops in Latvia currently fighting no one?

 

[Evilroddy]

You can't be serious!!!!!!

NolanVoyd:

I am deadly serious. The Canadian Federal Government's first responsibility must be to protect and support its own armed forces, not those of Ukraine. We have plenty of LAV APCs/ICVs which we can give to Ukraine but we cannot afford to give away our meagre stocks of 105mm and 155mm guns. They are too important for our own defence as a pathetically under-armed NATO member. I am not proud of the mess which successive Canadian governments have got our military into, but that is the reality which we face. So I say no artillery for Ukraine from Canada.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[NolanVoyd]

NolanVoyd:

I am deadly serious. The Canadian Federal Government's first responsibility must be to protect and support its own armed forces, not those of Ukraine. We have plenty of LAV APCs/ICVs which we can give to Ukraine but we cannot afford to give away our meagre stocks of 105mm and 155mm guns. They are too important for our own defence as a pathetically under-armed NATO member. I am not proud of the mess which successive Canadian governments have got our military into, but that is the reality which we face. So I say no artillery for Ukraine from Canada.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Canada does not need those more then Ukraine. That is patently ridiculous. I can't believe you even said it.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

NolanVoyd:

I am deadly serious. The Canadian Federal Government's first responsibility must be to protect and support its own armed forces, not those of Ukraine. We have plenty of LAV APCs/ICVs which we can give to Ukraine but we cannot afford to give away our meagre stocks of 105mm and 155mm guns. They are too important for our own defence as a pathetically under-armed NATO member. I am not proud of the mess which successive Canadian governments have got our military into, but that is the reality which we face. So I say no artillery for Ukraine from Canada.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

It seems almost impossible Canada's national security is meaningfully effected by these few 155mm guns. I believe the US has given Ukraine over 1/3 of our stockpile of Javelins.

The United States has probably given about one-third of its stock to Ukraine.

MSN

www.msn.com

For both the US and Canada, any threat to our national security would be from the sea, air, or intercontinental ballistic missiles.

 

[Evilroddy]

Canada does not need those more then Ukraine. That is patently ridiculous. I can't believe you even said it.

NolanVoyd:

If this localised war in Ukraine should widen to a wider NATO-Russian war (and I believe it eventually will), then the Baltic States would be high on Putin's hit list. That possibility precludes giving away rare guns to any nation because they will be needed to defend Canadians deployed to defend NATO. If you can't understand that, then have the USA give Ukraine more artillery or perhaps have the USA give Ukraine tactical nuclear weapons, you have them too. We should stick to what we can safely give them, LAVs.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

The Ukrainians ACTUALLY fighting the Russians, are in LESS need of howitzers than the Canadian troops in Latvia currently fighting no one?

Yes.

 

[LouC]

Today "Field Marshal Justin Trudeau" announced that Canada will be sending some of its 155mm Guns to Ukraine. We have prescious few 155mm guns (37 of them), not even two regiments worth of them. Nonetheless Trudeau is giving some away to Ukraine. Why aren't we giving Ukraine LAVs which we can make here rather than artillery which we bought at a very pretty penny from the UK and are in very short supply of? This is dumb. The dauphin strikes again!

Canada to send heavy artillery weapons to Ukraine, Trudeau pledges

The Prime Minister’s announcement came hours after he, U.S. President Joe Biden and other allied leaders discussed imposing further economic pain on Russia and vowed to provide more weaponry and aid to Ukraine

www.theglobeandmail.com

Oy Vey!
Evilroddy.

As if Canada needs them?

 

[Evilroddy]

As if Canada needs them?

LouC:

Laugh all you want, we still need them. They should stay under Canadian control and ownership. I do not want to see Canadian troops sacrificed needlessly as they were in Hong Kong in 1941-1942 when they were over run due to a lack of support. Let the premier world military superpower send Ukraine artillery. We'll send APC's and ICVs instead, because we've got those to spare..

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

It seems almost impossible Canada's national security is meaningfully effected by these few 155mm guns. I believe the US has given Ukraine over 1/3 of our stockpile of Javelins.

MSN

www.msn.com

For both the US and Canada, any threat to our national security would be from the sea, air, or intercontinental ballistic missiles.

Nomad4ever:

For the bolded, false.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[LouC]

LouC:

Laugh all you want, we still need them. They should stay under Canadian control and ownership. I do not want to see Canadian troops sacrificed needlessly as they were in Hong Kong in 1941-1942 when they were over run due to a lack of support. Let the premier world military superpower send Ukraine artillery. We'll send APC's and ICVs instead, because we've got those to spare..

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

What necessary war is Canada currently fighting and or what inherent threats does she have that those artillery pieces being sent over would in turn cause her disaster?

 

[JANFU]

Today "Field Marshal Justin Trudeau" announced that Canada will be sending some of its 155mm Guns to Ukraine. We have prescious few 155mm guns (37 of them), not even two regiments worth of them. Nonetheless Trudeau is giving some away to Ukraine. Why aren't we giving Ukraine LAVs which we can make here rather than artillery which we bought at a very pretty penny from the UK and are in very short supply of? This is dumb. The dauphin strikes again!

Canada to send heavy artillery weapons to Ukraine, Trudeau pledges

The Prime Minister’s announcement came hours after he, U.S. President Joe Biden and other allied leaders discussed imposing further economic pain on Russia and vowed to provide more weaponry and aid to Ukraine

www.theglobeandmail.com

Oy Vey!
Evilroddy.

Another example of ow poorly equipped our soldier are
In 98, while posted to an infantry unit, with a Jump company. 6 toboggans were damaged on a jump
National depots had a total of 10 in stock.
AStan- our troops at the beginning were using Iltis jeeps, junk from Bombardier, on patrols. Now think of a civvy patter jeep, that descrbes an Iltis.

Astan- many CDN KIA/WIA supplied forward bases by road. No choppers. Countries that did not have the chopper lift, hired contracted companies to use. These convoys were easy target for the Taliban.

9 mm Beretta, est time to replace 5/6 years. Its a ****ing pistol, and our procurement process is corrupted and needs to be rebuilt. This process began in 2018/19. Loser appealed, back to years for new pistols.
If the process cannot buy pistols in much less time, then start firing the leadership, including politicians

How many years have we been waiting for the F35?
Naval assets, still have not come close to providing 1 new Frigate.

Trudeau halted lethal aid to UKR as our stocks ran out
I could go on and on but out military has been decimated for decade after decade

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

Today "Field Marshal Justin Trudeau" announced that Canada will be sending some of its 155mm Guns to Ukraine. We have prescious few 155mm guns (37 of them), not even two regiments worth of them. Nonetheless Trudeau is giving some away to Ukraine. Why aren't we giving Ukraine LAVs which we can make here rather than artillery which we bought at a very pretty penny from the UK and are in very short supply of? This is dumb. The dauphin strikes again!

Canada to send heavy artillery weapons to Ukraine, Trudeau pledges

The Prime Minister’s announcement came hours after he, U.S. President Joe Biden and other allied leaders discussed imposing further economic pain on Russia and vowed to provide more weaponry and aid to Ukraine

www.theglobeandmail.com

Oy Vey!
Evilroddy.

What the hell would Canada need them for?

 

[Evilroddy]

What necessary war is Canada currently fighting and or what inherent threats does she have that those artillery pieces being sent over would in turn cause her disaster?

LouC:

Russia is our closest European neighbour. There is a trans-polar threat to the Arcitic archipelago as well as a threat to Canadian troops deployed in Latvia. Those are both greater priorities than supplying Ukraine with weapons systems which we cannot afford to lose. As I said in a post above, I believe this war is going to escalate and widen to a NATO-Russian War. Then we ourselves will need this artillery. I also believe that it will be NATO which widens the war, in order to protect arms shipments from Russian interdiction in Ukraine.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[StillBallin75]

NolanVoyd:

If this localised war in Ukraine should widen to a wider NATO-Russian war (and I believe it eventually will), then the Baltic States would be high on Putin's hit list. That possibility precludes giving away rare guns to any nation because they will be needed to defend Canadians deployed to defend NATO. If you can't understand that, then have the USA give Ukraine more artillery or perhaps have the USA give Ukraine tactical nuclear weapons, you have them too. We should stick to what we can safely give them, LAVs.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Seeing as the Russian Army is currently being completely wrecked by the Ukrainian Army you are loathe to give howitzers too, their capacity and likelihood of invading the Baltics seems highly improbable.

And EVEN IF your concerns were justified, the entirety of NATO firepower along the Eastern Front in a hypothetical WWIII would include way more than just one Canadian artillery battery. Your boys will be fine. There would be no need for your zero-sum game nationalistic nonsense in that scenario because every NATO army would be in the shit together anyway.

 

[Fishking]

Of course it is our place to oppose evil.

Which evil? Both of them?

Of course it is our place to be involved.

Why is it our place to be involved? Seems pretty arrogant and, looking at our history of intervention, it doesn't have an amazing track record.

 

[NolanVoyd]

It seems almost impossible Canada's national security is meaningfully effected by these few 155mm guns. I believe the US has given Ukraine over 1/3 of our stockpile of Javelins.

MSN

www.msn.com

For both the US and Canada, any threat to our national security would be from the sea, air, or intercontinental ballistic missiles.

I agree.

And as I see it, the biggest threat to the national security of the US and Canada is NOT doing everything we can do to help Ukraine stop putin.

Letting Putin get away with it would present a much bigger threat to our national security.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

I agree.

And as I see it, the biggest threat to the national security of the US and Canada is NOT doing everything we can do to help Ukraine stop putin.

Letting Putin get away with it would present a much bigger threat to our national security.

Agreed. Plus, the US giving Ukraine heavy artillery as well.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Which evil? Both of them?

Why is it our place to be involved? Seems pretty arrogant and, looking at our history of intervention, it doesn't have an amazing track record.

What a ridiculous false equivalence.

Even the right wing Trump supporting talking heads like Hannity know the difference. Hannity just referred to Putin as "evil in our lifetime,".

It is always our place to oppose evil.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Why is it our place to be involved? Seems pretty arrogant and, looking at our history of intervention, it doesn't have an amazing track record.

This involvement is far more analogous to us sending aid to the UK during WWII than various pointless conflicts we got ourselves into in the middle east.

 

[soylentgreen]

They think that they're not going to miss them?
I mean, the USA is close and we would certainly be there in a heartbeat

Isn't that the problem. Those guns have probably been all pointing south all these years.

 

[Evilroddy]

This is how I envision things going over the next few months. The Russians unleash their Donbas offensive in a week or two. The West rushes heavy weapons to Ukraine through Romania and Poland. Russia gains some ground but then bogs down in another costly phase of attritional warfare with Ukraine due to Western weapons systems being used by the Ukrainian military. The Ukrainians have stopped the advances but cannot really take back much ground without armour, artillery and at least local air superiority in order to mount proper combined-arms operations against Russian forces. The West send tanks, AFVs, and aircraft. The Russians mobilize and decide to heavily interdict Ukrainian lines of supply by airstrikes and missile strikes. It begins to shut down the resupply of Ukraine. NATO declares it's going to set up a humanitarian safe-zone in Western Ukraine from Kyiv in the north to Odessa in the south through which supplies (both humanitarian and military) will be able to flow more securely. Direct air combat between Russians and NATO in Ukraine begins. The Russians preempt the safe-zone's full establishment with ground burst tactical and low yield strategic nuclear weapon strikes in Western Ukraine along the Polish and Romanian borders to poison the lines of supply. NATO goes to war with Russia. WWIII follows until a negotiated peace or a thermonuclear war happens.

We need the guns. Let the Aussies give the Ukrainians their M777s if they think the Chinese will leave them in peace. Canada cannot afford to disarm its gunners.

Be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.