We're Going to Give Away Artillery Which We Cannot Spare! Why?

[NolanVoyd]

I think the Americans who turn a blind eye to our support of Saudi Arabia’s war effort, which is every bit as bad, are utter hypocrites.

So you cannot answer.

I knew you wouldn't. It's very telling.

 

[Fledermaus]

The Biden admin is every bit as complicit.

“In response to the recent escalation, the Biden administration apparently has doubled down on support to the coalition, announcing the sale of additional fighter aircraft to the UAE.”

Biden Doubles Down on a Failed Yemen Policy

When running for office, President Biden promised to “make sure America does not check its values at the door to sell arms or buy oil.” In the context of the Yemen conflict, fulfilling this promise may not be easy, but it is clear: In Biden’s own words, America must “end U.S. support for Saudi...

www.hrw.org

Derailing

Please see map:

 

[Fishking]

The Ukrainians have extensive experience with mdm/hvy artillery. They currently have 152mm cannons. Slightly different laying and loading procedures but it's not like trying to learn F35s after 20-year-old MIGS.

As far as urban. so little of the Ukraine is actually urban the artillery can be extremely effective. Russians can't position their artillery, rocket launchers in cities and the logistics tail travels open terrain.

Artillery- The King of Battle, and there is a damned good reason we grunts called it that...

Right...you know even the US didn't use much artillery in Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years, right? You know what our arty guys did on deployment? Infantry work.

 

[Tigerace117]

So you cannot answer.

I knew you wouldn't. It's very telling.

Your desperation to avoid facing the facts....doesn’t change them.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Your desperation to avoid facing the facts....doesn’t change them.

Your desperation to avoid talking about Putins war in Ukraine by saying whatabout what the US did is very telling.

Why can't you give a straight answer.

 

[Tigerace117]

Your desperation to avoid talking about Putins war in Ukraine by saying whatabout what the US did is very telling.

Why can't you give a straight answer.

Your desperation to avoid facing the facts is indeed rather telling.

I’ve given you many straight answers....you simply don’t want to face them.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Your desperation to avoid facing the facts is indeed rather telling.

I’ve given you many straight answers....you simply don’t want to face them.

What do you think about Putins war in Ukraine?

(Shifting the discussion to something the US did is not an answer)

 

[Tigerace117]

What do you think about Putins war in Ukraine?

(Shifting the discussion to something the US did is not an answer)

Already answered.

You being triggered by having to face reality doesn’t change it.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Already answered.

You being triggered by having to face reality doesn’t change it.

Nope.

Don't lie.

 

[Tigerace117]

Nope.

Don't lie.

You being triggered by having to face what we are complicit in doesn’t change the facts.

 

[NolanVoyd]

You being triggered by having to face what we are complicit in doesn’t change the facts.

Again.

What in the world are you talking about?

Does pointing out the fact that you are lying when you say you already answered make me triggered in your eyes?

Does that even make sense to you?

You are just playing games, or perhaps really young and really very bad at this.

 

[Hamish Howl]

What happens to all the weapons in Ukraine if and when Zelensky finally surrenders, or Ukraine is successfully invaded?
Russia gets them.

Not before they get spiked.

 

[Tigerace117]

Again.

What in the world are you talking about?

Does pointing out the fact that you are lying when you say you already answered make me triggered in your eyes?

Does that even make sense to you?

You are just playing games, or perhaps really young and really very bad at this.

Yea, because hysterical accusations of “lies all lies” because you don’t like my answer is the definition of being triggered. Duh.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Yea, because hysterical accusations of “lies all lies” because you don’t like my answer is the definition of being triggered. Duh.

You didn't give an answer. You changed the subject to something the US did. That isnt an answer.

 

[Tigerace117]

You didn't give an answer. You changed the subject to something the US did. That isnt an answer.

You not wanting to face up to the facts doesn’t change them.

 

[lwf]

....except it is. Going “uh-unh!” is not an argument. The US has supplied the coalition with over thirty BILLION dollars worth of aid

Biden Doubles Down on a Failed Yemen Policy

When running for office, President Biden promised to “make sure America does not check its values at the door to sell arms or buy oil.” In the context of the Yemen conflict, fulfilling this promise may not be easy, but it is clear: In Biden’s own words, America must “end U.S. support for Saudi...

www.hrw.org

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian–led_intervention_in_Yemen#Reports_of_war_crimes

The Saudis, meanwhile, have committed a literal boatload of war crimes, while the US continues to support their war effort with everything from aircraft to intelligence aid.

As I said before, the US is every bit as complicit in the slaughter there. The only difference is that we can’t bear to bring ourselves to face reality.

There is a gulf of difference between a country funding a regime that then goes on to support terrorism and a country being a regime that actively engages in terrorism as a strategy.

You seem to feel that people who denounce Russia for being the latter are thereby excusing the US for the former. No one is saying that. And there is no comparison between the intentional and ongoing war crimes committed by Russia and the relatively few unintentional war crimes committed by the US which the US took responsibility for and charged the offending soldiers appropriately.

 

[lwf]

How did you come to that conclusion? It cannot just be by declaration. Adversaries of the US in wars have charged the US with targeting non combatants, adversaries of Russia have done that as well. Have you examined the charges before coming to your conclusions?

There is no evidence of the US targeting non-combatants as a strategy. There is ample evidence that the US avoids killing non-combatants wherever possible, and it admits when there is unfortunate collateral damage. Using cluster munitions against civilian structures is evidence that Russia IS targeting non-combatants. Painting "For the children" on a missile and then firing that missile into a train station where families with children were fleeing the war is evidence that Russia is targeting non-combatants. The bodies of Ukrainians who were killed with their hands bound behind their backs is evidence that Russian is targeting non-combatants. The bodies of unarmed civilians lining the streets killed with small arms fire is evidence that Russia is targeting non-combatants.

 

[notquiteright]

Right...you know even the US didn't use much artillery in Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years, right? You know what our arty guys did on deployment? Infantry work.

Against a third feeble opposition with fast moving fronts cannon indirect support isn't practical. Do note that the MLRS artillery did engage multiple times in Gulf War I against fixed defensive positions. Doctrine is simple- until the enemy digs in the plan is to keep pushing hard against the retreating enemy trying to turn an organized retreat into a rout.

Afghanistan was different, much smaller FOBs scattered about. The insurgents rarely used mass attacks and the mountainous terrain handicapped artillery due to trajectory issues. Combat post Keating faced a massed attack that overwhelmed the defenders. 155s were used in the defense.

I live near Ft. Sill, home of the FIRES units. The cannon cockers returning from Iraq after a tour during Gulf War II told me they did a lot of convoy work. I hadn't heard anything about them doing Grunt work. According to the book 'The Outpost' the Combat Bases in Afghanistan were severely under strength. Outposts deep into the mountains had understrength Platoons trying to patrol the mountains, protect AID projects, maintain good relations with villagers, and defend their 'home'. A few red legs to man the outposts while the grunts did the OD (out dere) work would have been welcomed.

IMO artillery wasn't used more is more do to no coherent operational plan. Troops strength was too low for the outposts planned. Combat Post Keating was in a valley to be close to a village but completely dominated the by high Kush mountains. It and many other outposts in the Nuristan were too far, too few, and cut off from road travel.

The Operational plan is the biggest reason artillery wasn't used often....