We're Going to Give Away Artillery Which We Cannot Spare! Why?

[Evilroddy]

Today "Field Marshal Justin Trudeau" announced that Canada will be sending some of its 155mm Guns to Ukraine. We have prescious few 155mm guns (37 of them), not even two regiments worth of them. Nonetheless Trudeau is giving some away to Ukraine. Why aren't we giving Ukraine LAVs which we can make here rather than artillery which we bought at a very pretty penny from the UK and are in very short supply of? This is dumb. The dauphin strikes again!

Canada to send heavy artillery weapons to Ukraine, Trudeau pledges

The Prime Minister’s announcement came hours after he, U.S. President Joe Biden and other allied leaders discussed imposing further economic pain on Russia and vowed to provide more weaponry and aid to Ukraine

www.theglobeandmail.com

Oy Vey!
Evilroddy.

 

[HIP56948]

They think that they're not going to miss them?
I mean, the USA is close and we would certainly be there in a heartbeat

 

[Fishking]

Today "Field Marshal Justin Trudeau" announced that Canada will be sending some of its 155mm Guns to Ukraine. We have prescious few 155mm guns (37 of them), not even two regiments worth of them. Nonetheless Trudeau is giving some away to Ukraine. Why aren't we giving Ukraine LAVs which we can make here rather than artillery which we bought at a very pretty penny from the UK and are in very short supply of? This is dumb. The dauphin strikes again!

Canada to send heavy artillery weapons to Ukraine, Trudeau pledges

The Prime Minister’s announcement came hours after he, U.S. President Joe Biden and other allied leaders discussed imposing further economic pain on Russia and vowed to provide more weaponry and aid to Ukraine

www.theglobeandmail.com

Oy Vey!
Evilroddy.

Not to mention that artillery isn't something that can be used in an urban environment without causing lots of collateral damage, and you need pretty solid training to use them effectively. That means it's likely that they will do more harm to their own county than help.

 

[StillBallin75]

My first reaction: The entirety of the Canadian Army only has 37 triple 7s???

My second reaction: Forreal though who y'all tryna kill, some caribou?

 

[StillBallin75]

Not to mention that artillery isn't something that can be used in an urban environment without causing lots of collateral damage, and you need pretty solid training to use them effectively. That means it's likely that they will do more harm to their own county than help.

My guess is that the Donbass war will end up being one of attrition and at least the more artillery the Ukrainians are handed the more stalemated the conflict will be. I don't think it'll all take place in urban environments but maybe a more intense version of the trench warfare that was happening there previously.

 

[Fishking]

My guess is that the Donbass war will end up being one of attrition and at least the more artillery the Ukrainians are handed the more stalemated the conflict will be. I don't think it'll all take place in urban environments but maybe a more intense version of the trench warfare that was happening there previously.

Why don't you think it will take place in an urban environment? Ukraine has been using indiscriminate bombardment against the eastern regions since 2014.

 

[FreedomFromAll]

Today "Field Marshal Justin Trudeau" announced that Canada will be sending some of its 155mm Guns to Ukraine. We have prescious few 155mm guns (37 of them), not even two regiments worth of them. Nonetheless Trudeau is giving some away to Ukraine. Why aren't we giving Ukraine LAVs which we can make here rather than artillery which we bought at a very pretty penny from the UK and are in very short supply of? This is dumb. The dauphin strikes again!

Canada to send heavy artillery weapons to Ukraine, Trudeau pledges

The Prime Minister’s announcement came hours after he, U.S. President Joe Biden and other allied leaders discussed imposing further economic pain on Russia and vowed to provide more weaponry and aid to Ukraine

www.theglobeandmail.com

Oy Vey!
Evilroddy.

Given the small number, it was not needed.

 

[ChickenTendies]

Why? Will the ruthless Muscovite barbarians come for your maple syrup?

 

[StillBallin75]

Why don't you think it will take place in an urban environment? Ukraine has been using indiscriminate bombardment against the eastern regions since 2014.

Most of the terrain in the contested area along the front isn't actually urban though. It's wooded terrain and small towns, and yes a ****ton of trenches.

And we're really nitpicking here, urban terrain or not, my larger point is that artillery is useful as long as you're using it on someone else, regardless of collateral damage.

 

[Schism]

It's like giving chimpanzees a box of firecrackers and a lighter.

I don't think there's a spotter on either side of this war.

 

[iguanaman]

Why don't you think it will take place in an urban environment? Ukraine has been using indiscriminate bombardment against the eastern regions since 2014.

LOL More Putin propaganda? The Russians have been doing most of the shelling in Donbas since 2014.. They have turned those areas into totalitarian nightmares and have adopted the Constitution that Stalin wrote for them. You should move there.

Neo-Stalinism​

A 13.5 metre-tall statue of Soviet founder Vladimir Lenin still dominates the main square in Donetsk, the capital of the eponymous breakaway region in southeastern Ukraine.

And the constitution adopted by Lenin’s successor, Josef Stalin, has been restored by the Moscow-backed separatist leaders of Donetsk and neighbouring Luhansk after they broke away from the central government in 2014.
This constitution prescribes the death penalty for a number of crimes, making the separatist “People’s Republics” – and authoritarian Belarus nearby – Europe’s only homes to capital punishment.
After almost eight years of existence, the “republics” are understood to have evolved into totalitarian, North Korea-like statelets.
It is near impossible for foreigners to enter the areas. Ukrainians can only visit if they have relatives in Donetsk and Luhansk, and would have to cross into Russia first, which takes about 30 hours and costs $100 – a journey that also involves bribing officials at times. Residents need a Soviet-era residency registration.
In the statelets, secret police and “loyal” residents monitor every word, phone call and text message.
Dissidents or businessmen who refuse to “donate” their assets to the “needs of the People’s Republic” have been thrown in “cellars”, or dozens of makeshift concentration camps, without trial.
“It looks like the 1930s in the Soviet Union, a classic gulag,” Stanislav Aseyev, a publicist who was kidnapped in 2017 in Donetsk and was sentenced by a separatist “court” to 15 years in jail for “espionage”, told Al Jazeera.
For almost two years, he was incarcerated and tortured in these “cellars” until separatists swapped him and dozens of other prisoners in 2017.
Thousands of others were tortured and abused in the “cellars”, according to rights groups and witnesses. The grave human rights abuses make Donetsk and Luhansk far worse than today’s Russia, an international human rights advocate said.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/22/what-are-donetsk-and-luhansk-ukraines-separatist-statelets

 

[SkyChief]

I think Field Marshal Trudeau is just keeping up with the Joneses.

Biden has announced plans to ship additional (unspecified number)155mm Howitzers and ammo to Ukraine.

Trudeau might feel pressured to offer Ukraine something.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Today "Field Marshal Justin Trudeau" announced that Canada will be sending some of its 155mm Guns to Ukraine. We have prescious few 155mm guns (37 of them), not even two regiments worth of them. Nonetheless Trudeau is giving some away to Ukraine. Why aren't we giving Ukraine LAVs which we can make here rather than artillery which we bought at a very pretty penny from the UK and are in very short supply of? This is dumb. The dauphin strikes again!

Canada to send heavy artillery weapons to Ukraine, Trudeau pledges

The Prime Minister’s announcement came hours after he, U.S. President Joe Biden and other allied leaders discussed imposing further economic pain on Russia and vowed to provide more weaponry and aid to Ukraine

www.theglobeandmail.com

Oy Vey!
Evilroddy.

Are you using it at the moment?

America might be deranged, but:

1. America isn't going to put up with anyone ****ing with you, because that would harm our prestige, and also because you are the entire world's supply of Coffee Crisp.

2. If America became deranged enough to go after you, those artillery pieces would make precisely zero difference.

3. Canada isn't in the habit of engaging in offensive warfare.

 

[Fishking]

Most of the terrain in the contested area along the front isn't actually urban though. It's wooded terrain and small towns, and yes a ****ton of trenches.

And we're really nitpicking here, urban terrain or not, my larger point is that artillery is useful as long as you're using it on someone else, regardless of collateral damage.

And you think the residents of those regions will want to join back up with Ukraine more or less after they've been subjected to shelling? Oh...in case you still doubt, which it seems you are...

Ukraine: Widespread Use of Cluster Munitions

www.hrw.org

(Berlin) – Ukrainian government forces used cluster munitions in populated areas in Donetsk city in early October 2014, Human Rights Watch said today. The use of cluster munitions in populated areas violates the laws of war due to the indiscriminate nature of the weapon and may amount to war crimes.

 

[StillBallin75]

And you think the residents of those regions will want to join back up with Ukraine more or less after they've been subjected to shelling? Oh...in case you still doubt, which it seems you are...

I'm saying Ukraine is willing to do whatever and ask for whatever it takes to stall the Russian advance, as they should. Artillery helps them do that. We all know artillery can be indiscriminate. It doesn't make it useless.

Ukraine: Widespread Use of Cluster Munitions

www.hrw.org

(Berlin) – Ukrainian government forces used cluster munitions in populated areas in Donetsk city in early October 2014, Human Rights Watch said today. The use of cluster munitions in populated areas violates the laws of war due to the indiscriminate nature of the weapon and may amount to war crimes.

OK? Cluster munitions bad we all know this.

 

[MaryP]

Are you using it at the moment?

America might be deranged, but:

1. America isn't going to put up with anyone ****ing with you, because that would harm our prestige, and also because you are the entire world's supply of Coffee Crisp.

2. If America became deranged enough to go after you, those artillery pieces would make precisely zero difference.

3. Canada isn't in the habit of engaging in offensive warfare.

Coffee Crisp is worth fighting for.

 

[Fishking]

I'm saying Ukraine is willing to do whatever and ask for whatever it takes to stall the Russian advance, as they should. Artillery helps them do that. We all know artillery can be indiscriminate. It doesn't make it useless.

OK? Cluster munitions bad we all know this.

I didn't say they were useless. I said they'd do more harm than good. If we're going to support Ukraine with weaponry, which I don't think we should be doing, then focusing on more direct fire weapons would be better, like anti-tank missiles and such.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Today "Field Marshal Justin Trudeau" announced that Canada will be sending some of its 155mm Guns to Ukraine. We have prescious few 155mm guns (37 of them), not even two regiments worth of them. Nonetheless Trudeau is giving some away to Ukraine. Why aren't we giving Ukraine LAVs which we can make here rather than artillery which we bought at a very pretty penny from the UK and are in very short supply of? This is dumb. The dauphin strikes again!

Canada to send heavy artillery weapons to Ukraine, Trudeau pledges

The Prime Minister’s announcement came hours after he, U.S. President Joe Biden and other allied leaders discussed imposing further economic pain on Russia and vowed to provide more weaponry and aid to Ukraine

www.theglobeandmail.com

Oy Vey!
Evilroddy.

Canada only has 37 heavy field pieces?

Is that a joke of some sort?

 

[Bullseye]

Today "Field Marshal Justin Trudeau" announced that Canada will be sending some of its 155mm Guns to Ukraine. We have prescious few 155mm guns (37 of them), not even two regiments worth of them. Nonetheless Trudeau is giving some away to Ukraine. Why aren't we giving Ukraine LAVs which we can make here rather than artillery which we bought at a very pretty penny from the UK and are in very short supply of? This is dumb. The dauphin strikes again!

Canada to send heavy artillery weapons to Ukraine, Trudeau pledges

The Prime Minister’s announcement came hours after he, U.S. President Joe Biden and other allied leaders discussed imposing further economic pain on Russia and vowed to provide more weaponry and aid to Ukraine

www.theglobeandmail.com

Oy Vey!
Evilroddy.

Going to war?

 

[NolanVoyd]

Today "Field Marshal Justin Trudeau" announced that Canada will be sending some of its 155mm Guns to Ukraine. We have prescious few 155mm guns (37 of them), not even two regiments worth of them. Nonetheless Trudeau is giving some away to Ukraine. Why aren't we giving Ukraine LAVs which we can make here rather than artillery which we bought at a very pretty penny from the UK and are in very short supply of? This is dumb. The dauphin strikes again!

Canada to send heavy artillery weapons to Ukraine, Trudeau pledges

The Prime Minister’s announcement came hours after he, U.S. President Joe Biden and other allied leaders discussed imposing further economic pain on Russia and vowed to provide more weaponry and aid to Ukraine

www.theglobeandmail.com

Oy Vey!
Evilroddy.

He is giving them those because that is what they need. Ukraine is in a desperate situation. Canada is not. Canada does not need them now, Ukraine does need them now.

They can be replaced long before Canada ever needs them.

Good job Trudeau.

 

[NolanVoyd]

I didn't say they were useless. I said they'd do more harm than good. If we're going to support Ukraine with weaponry, which I don't think we should be doing, then focusing on more direct fire weapons would be better, like anti-tank missiles and such.

Why on earth do you think we shouldn't support Ukraine with weapons?

 

[Evilroddy]

He is giving them those because that is what they need. Ukraine is in a desperate situation. Canada is not. Canada does not need them now, Ukraine does need them now.

They can be replaced long before Canada ever needs them.

Good job Trudeau.

NolanVoyd:

Canada has troops on the ground in Latvia. The force there only has a single battery of 6 X M777s to support it. They need our guns far more than the Ukrainians do. Send the Ukrainians LAVs. We've got plenty of those to spare. We need to buy more M777s, not give them away.

Bad job Trudeau.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[tosca1]

Today "Field Marshal Justin Trudeau" announced that Canada will be sending some of its 155mm Guns to Ukraine. We have prescious few 155mm guns (37 of them), not even two regiments worth of them. Nonetheless Trudeau is giving some away to Ukraine. Why aren't we giving Ukraine LAVs which we can make here rather than artillery which we bought at a very pretty penny from the UK and are in very short supply of? This is dumb. The dauphin strikes again!

Canada to send heavy artillery weapons to Ukraine, Trudeau pledges

The Prime Minister’s announcement came hours after he, U.S. President Joe Biden and other allied leaders discussed imposing further economic pain on Russia and vowed to provide more weaponry and aid to Ukraine

www.theglobeandmail.com

Oy Vey!
Evilroddy.

If NATO and EU wouldn't stick their heads in all the way to assist Ukraine in this war (not even with a no fly zone), I don't get why they're all spending so much money, not to mention using up their own military supplies
(with all the economies tanking at the moment), at a losing war?

We don't know what North Korea, China or Iran are up to - and here we are, depleting our own!

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Canada only has 37 heavy field pieces?

Is that a joke of some sort?

Seriously. I'm pretty sure the NYPD has more than that!

 

[Fishking]

Why on earth do you think we shouldn't support Ukraine with weapons?

Because it's not our place to be involved, it runs the risk of escalating the war to what end we don't know, and it is causing greater human loss than saving. Add in that Ukraine isn't being run by an amazingly moral government that deserves all the adulation it's getting is just garnish next to the steak.