We're already in WW3

[NWRatCon]

The West needs to think through its endgame in Ukraine (Opinion, NYT)

"The United States and Europe are rightly backing Ukraine in its courageous defense against Russia’s invasion. But as the facts on the ground shift by the day, the West needs to think hard about its endgame: Is it Russian defeat or victory for Ukraine?"

"If its progress can be halted, Russia will be unable to force Ukraine to comply with its demands, thereby preserving Ukraine’s freedom. That’s what Russia’s defeat means.
But that’s only the start of matters. If its advance is halted, Russia will still occupy much newly seized Ukrainian territory, especially in the country’s south along the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea. It will also still possess Crimea and control the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Luhansk. Understandably, Ukraine is not going to settle for that. President Volodymyr Zelensky will want to retake Ukrainian territory and restore the borders promised to it in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.

So that’s what Ukrainian victory means. And for the West, backing that effort would require much different levels and types of military support."

 

[Rogue Valley]

This will not be a quick war. It may grind on for a decade or more.

 

[NWRatCon]

Today saw some of the most shocking war crimes since WWII. Russian forces deliberately targeted several civilian shelters.

 

[german hick]

Zelensky basically declared war with Russia last year when he stated the initiation of measures with which to take back Crimea, specifically mentioning Sevastopol.

okay.... you declare war on someone if you don´t say "it´s okay that you took a chunk of my country, take the next bite" - weird world...

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Putin warns Russia against pro-Western 'traitors' and scum ​

Putin said "Of course they (the west) will try to bet on the so-called fifth column, on traitors - on those who earn their money here, but live over there. Live, not in the geographical sense, but in the sense of their thoughts, their slavish thinking,"

"The West" is the new "Jew" that Putin is using in the same way as Hitler. Putin has youth groups that he is manipulating just like the Nazis did. The promotion of the 'Z' propaganda is straight out of Hitlers playbook. Putins language also mirrors Hitlers in his public speeches. The brutality and everything involved with it shows that Putin is willing to kill anyone. The fact that Russain military is targeting civilian shelters indicates that Putin wants no real end to his war.

Zelensky is ignorant to accept talks with Russia. In the end, Putin will crow "well we tried, but the West is evil and wants war" and use that as his reason for attacking other nations.

Make no mistake the only reason Putin attacked Ukraine is to attack the West. Putin is at war with what he deems The West, not just Ukraine but, Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, and any other modern democracy. And since Putin does not have the military power to do that it means he is going to nuke the west it's just a matter of time no matter what we do. Unless we ((the world) form a force to take out Russia, Putin is going for a first strike scenario with Nuclear weapons and bio and chemical. Thats where we are at.

This is WW3, it has started and it will be our end if we ignore that reality. So beating Russia in Ukraine will not stop Putin's first-strike plan. Putin: "when a fight is inevitable, you hit first"

 

[oneworld2]

okay.... you declare war on someone if you don´t say "it´s okay that you took a chunk of my country, take the next bite" - weird world...

It wasn't a moral call or a judgement call, it was a statement of fact regarding why things escalated so quickly

 

[Rogue Valley]

All dictators need wars and scapegoats.

 

[NWRatCon]

I think there is a rational fear of "widening" Russia's war in a Europe. Then, of course, there is the question of, how much provocation is required? Anyone who thinks that Putin will be content with only a portion of Ukraine isn't being rational. And, of course, there is the question of where he will strike next. Poland thinks it will be them.

There may be a "strategic" move away from Kyiv, for the moment, but the mistake of the west is allowing Russia to reposition and refit that equipment, because they're going to see it again. The location may change, but the aim has not. Having lost the initial broad campaign, Putin will consolidate his forces and attempt to "roll up" territory from the East and South.

Once he has gained territory in the Donbas, and consolidated gains along the Black sea, he may even pause, although Russia's financial condition may require him to move farther, faster before their forces deteriorate much further. The waiting game is no longer in his favor.

Putin has been at war with the west since he took power.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I don't know what that means but it looks painfully.

It's incorrect.
Путин, иди на хуй

("putin, ee-dee na-khooey") which translates into "Putin, go **** yourself."

 

[NWRatCon]

It's incorrect.
Путин, иди на хуй

("putin, ee-dee na-khooey") which translates into "Putin, go **** yourself."

My Russian is nonexistent. Unless you count Nyet, and Da, and do svidanya (до свидания). I used to know how to say several things that are not printable here and to read (sound out) road maps. Two very good friends were Russian linguists and one a Russian soldier.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

My Russian is nonexistent. Unless you count Nyet, and Da, and do svidanya (до свидания). I used to know how to say several things that are not printable here and to read (sound out) road maps.

Mine isn't much better after leaving American-Russian Television in West Hollywood back around 1993.
I had become good enough that I could carry on rudimentary conversations and pick up on what folks were saying, but that's because I was immersed in it for seven hours a day
during the week.

Use it or lose it!

PS: In order to sound authentic, you have to accent the correct syllable, thus "putin, ee-dee NA-khooey"...you have to put strong emphasis on the "NA" in "NA-khooey".

 

[RAMOSS]

This will not be a quick war. It may grind on for a decade or more.

I am not sure that is true. That might have been true with the USSR, but the warsaw pact countries had a much much higher GDP than Russia does, and there wasn't the kind of sanctions on the USSR that Russia has gotten today. Russia's resources will be drained a lot faster than the old USSR.

 

[NWRatCon]

I am not sure that is true. That might have been true with the USSR, but the warsaw pact countries had a much much higher GDP than Russia does, and there wasn't the kind of sanctions on the USSR that Russia has gotten today. Russia's resources will be drained a lot faster than the old USSR.

I think we're in a race to see whether the Soviet Russian economy tanks before eastern Ukraine does. By concentrating forces in the Donbas, and having free passage through Russia and Belarus, the Russian forces will have logistic advantages the Ukrainians do not have. I am encouraged, though, by one of Russia's largest ships - the Black sea flagship, Moskva - being heavily damaged by Ukrainian fire. That makes two.

 

[Felis Leo]

This will not be a quick war. It may grind on for a decade or more.

Jesus I hope you are wrong, Rogue Valley.

 

[RAMOSS]

I think we're in a race to see whether the Soviet Russian economy tanks before eastern Ukraine does. By concentrating forces in the Donbas, and having free passage through Russia and Belarus, the Russian forces will have logistic advantages the Ukrainians do not have. I am encouraged, though, by one of Russia's largest ships - the Black sea flagship, Moskva - being heavily damaged by Ukrainian fire. That makes two.

There is a factor you are not taking into account. That is 'the resistance'

 

[Yakshi]

This will not be a quick war. It may grind on for a decade or more.

I agree. It's already in its eighth year.

 

[Linc]

Support for Ukraine will depend on future elections in the west.

 

[NWRatCon]

I agree. It's already in its eighth year.

Actually, much longer than that. The "hot" war began in 1992 (Moldova), and has followed a consistent pattern. Russia seeks to foment unrest in former Soviets, particularly among ethnically Russian populations. When hostilities break out, they intervene "on behalf of" "oppressed Russians". It wasn't until Putin took power, however, that the brazenness and brutality became the hallmarks of policy, first in Chechnya, then Georgia (2008), then Ukraine (2014).