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We're all going to feel better when we come clean

A

Antiwar

Green Party progressive
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We're all going to feel better when we come clean about the skeletons in America's collective closet.

Hearing about the horrendous abuses of chattel slavery (one of the most heinous examples) causes anxiety for most people.

Acknowledging these atrocities is difficult.

We need to further acknowledge these types of things so we can move on by making repairs.

Otherwise, abuses (of a lesser degree) will continue to accumulate. That increases resentments.

If those that fully acknowledge these things have to make repairs without the overwhelming majority of people fully acknowledging these things, then the latter people's resentments are likely increase.

Let's reduce resentments. 🙂
 
Not sure I agree entirely but given what I’ve seen from you lately, I have zero doubts as to your sincerity. Your heart’s in the right place.
 
Antiwar said:
We're all going to feel better when we come clean about the skeletons in America's collective closet.

Hearing about the horrendous abuses of chattel slavery (one of the most heinous examples) causes anxiety for most people.

Acknowledging these atrocities is difficult.

We need to further acknowledge these types of things so we can move on by making repairs.

Otherwise, abuses (of a lesser degree) will continue to accumulate. That increases resentments.

If those that fully acknowledge these things have to make repairs without the overwhelming majority of people fully acknowledging these things, then the latter people's resentments are likely increase.

Let's reduce resentments. 🙂
Click to expand...
Are you asserting that race and the history of slavery somehow isn't discussed enough in American political discourse?
 
Antiwar said:
We're all going to feel better when we come clean about the skeletons in America's collective closet.

Hearing about the horrendous abuses of chattel slavery (one of the most heinous examples) causes anxiety for most people.

Acknowledging these atrocities is difficult.

We need to further acknowledge these types of things so we can move on by making repairs.

Otherwise, abuses (of a lesser degree) will continue to accumulate. That increases resentments.

If those that fully acknowledge these things have to make repairs without the overwhelming majority of people fully acknowledging these things, then the latter people's resentments are likely increase.

Let's reduce resentments. 🙂
Click to expand...

No.
 
NatMorton said:
Are you asserting that race and the history of slavery somehow isn't discussed enough in American political discourse?
Click to expand...
Alright, Nat's ready to move to the repairing phase!
 
Antiwar said:
We're all going to feel better when we come clean about the skeletons in America's collective closet.

Hearing about the horrendous abuses of chattel slavery (one of the most heinous examples) causes anxiety for most people.

Acknowledging these atrocities is difficult.

We need to further acknowledge these types of things so we can move on by making repairs.

Otherwise, abuses (of a lesser degree) will continue to accumulate. That increases resentments.

If those that fully acknowledge these things have to make repairs without the overwhelming majority of people fully acknowledging these things, then the latter people's resentments are likely increase.

Let's reduce resentments. 🙂
Click to expand...

How many people in the US don't acknowledge the "horrendous abuses of chattel slavery"? I can't say that I know anyone who doesn't acknowledge it, or experiences any anxiety in doing so.
 
NatMorton said:
Are you asserting that race and the history of slavery somehow isn't discussed enough in American political discourse?
Click to expand...

"Discussion" is empty if it is not done in an honest and thoughtful manner. Right wing "discussion" about race is mosly an attempt to find ways to diminish and degrade blacks and finding ways to deflect when asked to engage in more depth about the continuing problem.
 
NatMorton said:
Never hard to predict where the race baiting will come from.
Click to expand...

You prove my point. We would like to have a thoughful inDepth discussion about race. You deflect by hiding behind the term "race baiting". Which is why said thoughful discussion with a right winger can never be had.
 
Liberal: let's have a thoughtful discussion about race.
Right winger: RACE BAITING! RACE CARD!
Yes, that's about how far it ever gets.
 
watsup said:
"Discussion" is empty if it is not done in an honest and thoughtful manner. Right wing "discussion" about race is mosly an attempt to find ways to diminish and degrade blacks and finding ways to deflect when asked to engage in more depth about the continuing problem.
Click to expand...
I've said this before but it bears repeating. The social justice warriors among us are quick to say that "we need to be able to have difficult conversations about race." While there are few things certain in this life, we can count on three. Death and taxes are two. A third that is an absolute lock is when an SJW says "what we need is to have a conversation about race" that they're actually not looking for a conversation. They're looking to deliver a monologue with the expectation that you will either be nodding your head in agreement or be exposed as a racist for doing anything less.

Something else these "conversationalists" often have in common is that they all have a vested interest in retaining the status quo of Black America as victim. You hear it from many Democrats (did you know the GOP are all racists?). You hear it from African American studies professors who must find causes for inequity that the layperson alone could never discover. You hear it from race-card dealing pundits in the media who live off the ratings that controversy and conflict bring. These people, and the institutions they represent, are not helped professionally by racial progress. Their engines run on a fuel called "systemic racism," and like the oil industry they're always drilling for more.

An economic achievement gap exists between white and black America; no one could argue otherwise. Racism also clearly exists in America; all but the lunatic fringe understands this. Where the "conversationalists" go wrong, willingly or not, is to presume the latter is the exclusive cause of the former; i.e. that is all about -- and only ever about -- racism. It's not.

We know how to reduce poverty. In fact, we know how to reduce the chances of winding up poor by as much as 80 or 90%. We also know of circumstances other than racism that cause poverty. We know one can greatly increase their chances of winding up poor by 1) failing to finish high school; 2) having a child at a young age; 3) having that child out of wedlock. It doesn't matter if you're black or white, these behaviors dramatically limit economic opportunities. Studies from groups at opposite ends of the political spectrum such as the Brookings Institute and the Heritage Foundation tell us the same thing: avoid these three problems and you dramatically reduce your chances of winding up poor; the data shows the assertion holds true regardless of race. It is also beyond question that these three conditions are higher among blacks in our country than they are for any other demographic. Knowing what these studies tell us and that these conditions are so regrettably high in Black America, is it any surprise that an economic gap does exists?

This all leads to the uncomfortable truth the social justice "conversationalists" are unwilling to acknowledge or even discuss: in 2021 it's individual behavior, at least in part, that is fueling the cycle of poverty in Black America. The "trouble" with this reality is that avoiding these conditions doesn't require a government subsidy or a belief that the "other party" is incurably racist. It doesn't require a thesis on robber-baron-inspired racism in the early 20th century production era. It doesn't require a chattering class injecting racism into every headline of the day. It takes a recognition that as individuals the choices we make have consequences, and if we wish to avoid poverty there are some choices we should and should not make. More than anything else, this realization opens up the possibility that Black America is empowered to improve the condition of Black America by healing itself.

Try offering this line of reasoning to the next social activist who wants to have a "conversation on race" and take note of how long it remains a civil conversation.
 
NatMorton said:
I've said this before but it bears repeating. The social justice warriors among us are quick to say that "we need to be able to have difficult conversations about race." While there are few things certain in this life, we can count on three. Death and taxes are two. A third that is an absolute lock is when an SJW says "what we need is to have a conversation about race" that they're actually not looking for a conversation. They're looking to deliver a monologue with the expectation that you will either be nodding your head in agreement or be exposed as a racist for doing anything less.

Something else these "conversationalists" often have in common is that they all have a vested interest in retaining the status quo of Black America as victim. You hear it from many Democrats (did you know the GOP are all racists?). You hear it from African American studies professors who must find causes for inequity that the layperson alone could never discover. You hear it from race-card dealing pundits in the media who live off the ratings that controversy and conflict bring. These people, and the institutions they represent, are not helped professionally by racial progress. Their engines run on a fuel called "systemic racism," and like the oil industry they're always drilling for more.

An economic achievement gap exists between white and black America; no one could argue otherwise. Racism also clearly exists in America; all but the lunatic fringe understands this. Where the "conversationalists" go wrong, willingly or not, is to presume the latter is the exclusive cause of the former; i.e. that is all about -- and only ever about -- racism. It's not.

We know how to reduce poverty. In fact, we know how to reduce the chances of winding up poor by as much as 80 or 90%. We also know of circumstances other than racism that cause poverty. We know one can greatly increase their chances of winding up poor by 1) failing to finish high school; 2) having a child at a young age; 3) having that child out of wedlock. It doesn't matter if you're black or white, these behaviors dramatically limit economic opportunities. Studies from groups at opposite ends of the political spectrum such as the Brookings Institute and the Heritage Foundation tell us the same thing: avoid these three problems and you dramatically reduce your chances of winding up poor; the data shows the assertion holds true regardless of race. It is also beyond question that these three conditions are higher among blacks in our country than they are for any other demographic. Knowing what these studies tell us and that these conditions are so regrettably high in Black America, is it any surprise that an economic gap does exists?

This all leads to the uncomfortable truth the social justice "conversationalists" are unwilling to acknowledge or even discuss: in 2021 it's individual behavior, at least in part, that is fueling the cycle of poverty in Black America. The "trouble" with this reality is that avoiding these conditions doesn't require a government subsidy or a belief that the "other party" is incurably racist. It doesn't require a thesis on robber-baron-inspired racism in the early 20th century production era. It doesn't require a chattering class injecting racism into every headline of the day. It takes a recognition that as individuals the choices we make have consequences, and if we wish to avoid poverty there are some choices we should and should not make. More than anything else, this realization opens up the possibility that Black America is empowered to improve the condition of Black America by healing itself.

Try offering this line of reasoning to the next social activist who wants to have a "conversation on race" and take note of how long it remains a civil conversation.
Click to expand...

A diatribe that boils down to "the liberals always race bait".
 
NatMorton said:
I've said this before but it bears repeating. The social justice warriors among us are quick to say that "we need to be able to have difficult conversations about race." While there are few things certain in this life, we can count on three. Death and taxes are two. A third that is an absolute lock is when an SJW says "what we need is to have a conversation about race" that they're actually not looking for a conversation. They're looking to deliver a monologue with the expectation that you will either be nodding your head in agreement or be exposed as a racist for doing anything less.

Something else these "conversationalists" often have in common is that they all have a vested interest in retaining the status quo of Black America as victim. You hear it from many Democrats (did you know the GOP are all racists?). You hear it from African American studies professors who must find causes for inequity that the layperson alone could never discover. You hear it from race-card dealing pundits in the media who live off the ratings that controversy and conflict bring. These people, and the institutions they represent, are not helped professionally by racial progress. Their engines run on a fuel called "systemic racism," and like the oil industry they're always drilling for more.

An economic achievement gap exists between white and black America; no one could argue otherwise. Racism also clearly exists in America; all but the lunatic fringe understands this. Where the "conversationalists" go wrong, willingly or not, is to presume the latter is the exclusive cause of the former; i.e. that is all about -- and only ever about -- racism. It's not.

We know how to reduce poverty. In fact, we know how to reduce the chances of winding up poor by as much as 80 or 90%. We also know of circumstances other than racism that cause poverty. We know one can greatly increase their chances of winding up poor by 1) failing to finish high school; 2) having a child at a young age; 3) having that child out of wedlock. It doesn't matter if you're black or white, these behaviors dramatically limit economic opportunities. Studies from groups at opposite ends of the political spectrum such as the Brookings Institute and the Heritage Foundation tell us the same thing: avoid these three problems and you dramatically reduce your chances of winding up poor; the data shows the assertion holds true regardless of race. It is also beyond question that these three conditions are higher among blacks in our country than they are for any other demographic. Knowing what these studies tell us and that these conditions are so regrettably high in Black America, is it any surprise that an economic gap does exists?

This all leads to the uncomfortable truth the social justice "conversationalists" are unwilling to acknowledge or even discuss: in 2021 it's individual behavior, at least in part, that is fueling the cycle of poverty in Black America. The "trouble" with this reality is that avoiding these conditions doesn't require a government subsidy or a belief that the "other party" is incurably racist. It doesn't require a thesis on robber-baron-inspired racism in the early 20th century production era. It doesn't require a chattering class injecting racism into every headline of the day. It takes a recognition that as individuals the choices we make have consequences, and if we wish to avoid poverty there are some choices we should and should not make. More than anything else, this realization opens up the possibility that Black America is empowered to improve the condition of Black America by healing itself.

Try offering this line of reasoning to the next social activist who wants to have a "conversation on race" and take note of how long it remains a civil conversation.
Click to expand...

Actually, this is nothing more than one strawman after another that you can erect so that you can then pull it down WITHOUT an actual other person saying whether they agree or not. Yes, it's easy to debate when you decide to be the mouthpiece for BOTH sides a bit more difficult when you don't decide to hide behind a "race baiting" or "race card" common talking point.
 
Antiwar said:
We're all going to feel better when we come clean about the skeletons in America's collective closet.

Hearing about the horrendous abuses of chattel slavery (one of the most heinous examples) causes anxiety for most people.

Acknowledging these atrocities is difficult.

We need to further acknowledge these types of things so we can move on by making repairs.

Otherwise, abuses (of a lesser degree) will continue to accumulate. That increases resentments.

If those that fully acknowledge these things have to make repairs without the overwhelming majority of people fully acknowledging these things, then the latter people's resentments are likely increase.

Let's reduce resentments. 🙂
Click to expand...


ok, slavery was a terrible thing and it is good that it has been stopped in this country. let us continue to build towards a future where color of someone's skin has nothing to do with anyone's way of seeing them, and instead we use the content of their character for all such judgements.

in order to do this, let us come together as brothers and sisters of all our races and creeds, as equals.

We can do this now as slavery is long since abolished. no one currently living has been a slaver or a slave. lets let the sins and inequities of the past be done with, once and for all, except for in memory , where we will keep them so as not to repeat the mistakes that were made.

what other repairs do you need?
 
Antiwar said:
We're all going to feel better when we come clean about the skeletons in America's collective closet.

Hearing about the horrendous abuses of chattel slavery (one of the most heinous examples) causes anxiety for most people.

Acknowledging these atrocities is difficult.

We need to further acknowledge these types of things so we can move on by making repairs.

Otherwise, abuses (of a lesser degree) will continue to accumulate. That increases resentments.

If those that fully acknowledge these things have to make repairs without the overwhelming majority of people fully acknowledging these things, then the latter people's resentments are likely increase.

Let's reduce resentments. 🙂
Click to expand...
Are you serious?

You think people are going to "come clean about the skeletons"? Heck, you can't even get Trump supporters to accept that Trump is incompetent and you think people will talk about their skeletons?

If you are going to post an OP, please make it about somethat that is doable and not about fantasies.

This OP of yours is about as realistic as saying, the solution to racism is to get racists to admit to their racism. It ain't going to happen.
 
NatMorton said:
Are you asserting that race and the history of slavery somehow isn't discussed enough in American political discourse?
Click to expand...

I think conservatives try to erase this history, yes.
 
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