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Well, it was nice while it lasted...

What if...?

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In the 1930's, the people got the government to steal a middle class from the rich, in the early 21st century, the rich got the government to give it back.

Or did it...?

Did Bernie Sanders' speech inflame an already annoyed base into actually doing something?

Can the PR boys spin everybody back in line in time for the vote Monday?

This weekend's news cycle promises to be amazing!

So what do you think?

Will Fox ignore Sanders, aside from dismissive asides?
Or will they be forced to respond, to adjust their messaging?

Will the mainstream and liberal media continue with it's current dismissal of liberal displeasure?
Or will it be forced to respond to retain "credibility"?

This weekend's news is gonna be better than the Super Bowl! (For me anyway!:2razz:)
 

washunut

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In the 1930's, the people got the government to steal a middle class from the rich, in the early 21st century, the rich got the government to give it back.

Or did it...?

Did Bernie Sanders' speech inflame an already annoyed base into actually doing something?

Can the PR boys spin everybody back in line in time for the vote Monday?

This weekend's news cycle promises to be amazing!

So what do you think?

Will Fox ignore Sanders, aside from dismissive asides?
Or will they be forced to respond, to adjust their messaging?

Will the mainstream and liberal media continue with it's current dismissal of liberal displeasure?
Or will it be forced to respond to retain "credibility"?

This weekend's news is gonna be better than the Super Bowl! (For me anyway!:2razz:)
If this compromise goes down, what do you think happens next? First it means the end of pasing ANYTHING else in the lame duck session. It also means that the Republicans will be able to pass a tax cut in January after Democrats raised taxes in January. It also means that the cut in payroll taxes goes away, the extension of unemployment benefits either goes away or is delayed. So this would really be a scorched earth policy by the democratic congress. Not sure why anyone would think that this is a winner for anyone.

Incmome ineqality will not be fixed by raising taxes on people over $250K per year by 4%. Intelligent long term policies are what will be needed. We have seen nothing for the last two years that says there is any hope that this president will bring real change in this area.
 

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Incmome ineqality will not be fixed by raising taxes on people over $250K per year by 4%. Intelligent long term policies are what will be needed. We have seen nothing for the last two years that says there is any hope that this president will bring real change in this area.

Any suggestions on what will fix income inequality?
 

haymarket

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that is akin to asking what will make every athlete equally talented or every girl equally pretty

its neither achieveable nor desireable
Completely and utterly untrue. While one cannot make a person a fine athlete or (outside of plastic surgery) make a homely girl pretty - but one can absolutely redistribute income from the very wealthy who control 90% of it to the 90% of the population who control less than 10% of it. That is achievable.

You may object to it. You may scream loudly. But it is a possibility.... and becomes so more each day with the growing disparity between the rich and everyone else. The greed of the rich is sowing the seeds of their own demise.

Like Senator Sanders asked so well yesterday "do you want everything?"
 
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Gardener

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Any suggestions on what will fix income inequality?
Sensible restrictions on predatory capitalism and a levelling of the playing field, a true crackdown on banking and trading policies , priortization of education with an emphasis on critical thinking skills, overhaul of the electoral process, inspired leadership in the Teddy Rooseveldt mold, reinstitution of the fairness doctrine -- all sorts of things. We used to pride ourselves on being a middle class society, but thanks to the efforts of think tanks gearded toward manipulating public perception, we now support robber barons as the "patriotic" point of view and call anybody who would want us to return to the ideals of a middle class society as "socialists".
 

TheGirlNextDoor

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Completely and utterly untrue. While one cannot make a person a fine athlete or (outside of plastic surgery) make a homely girl pretty - but one can absolutely redistribute income from the very wealthy who control 90% of it to the 90% of the population who control less than 10% of it. That is achievable.

You may object to it. You may scream loudly. But it is a possibility.... and becomes so more each day with the growing disparity between the rich and everyone else. The greed of the rich is sowing the seeds of their own demise.

Like Senator Sanders asked so well yesterday "do you want everything?"
So, you'd be okay sending me a check every week so my income matches yours then, right?

Good. Now I can stop working sixty hours a week... you can do it instead and share your income with me!

WOOHOO!
 

Grim17

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Any suggestions on what will fix income inequality?
Nothing.

Income inequality will always exist, because people are not the same. Some people go the extra mile to excel, and some don't. Some people take chances with their money by investing, and some put it in the bank. Some do what ever it takes to succeed, and some do nothing and expect it to fall in their lap.

Why do you think socialism has never succeeded? People who are wealthy are so, because they were motivated to achieve that wealth for themselves, their families, their churches, or whatever... But they will not continue to make the necessary sacrifices and go the extra mile for the government, or for the collective. It's human nature, and just the way it is.
 

haymarket

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So, you'd be okay sending me a check every week so my income matches yours then, right?

Good. Now I can stop working sixty hours a week... you can do it instead and share your income with me!

WOOHOO!
You need to go back and read my post. Turtle said such a thing is not possible and I was merely pointing out that it was. And I already share my income with lots of people.
 

TurtleDude

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Sensible restrictions on predatory capitalism and a levelling of the playing field, a true crackdown on banking and trading policies , priortization of education with an emphasis on critical thinking skills, overhaul of the electoral process, inspired leadership in the Teddy Rooseveldt mold, reinstitution of the fairness doctrine -- all sorts of things. We used to pride ourselves on being a middle class society, but thanks to the efforts of think tanks gearded toward manipulating public perception, we now support robber barons as the "patriotic" point of view and call anybody who would want us to return to the ideals of a middle class society as "socialists".
there are other rational explanations including the globalization of the economy meaning people with poor thinking skills or poor education can no longer make very good wages in factories. Plus, some would argue persuasively, that our entitlement rich society has sapped the desire of many to achieve--a desire that was not only more prevalent but far more necessary before the New Deal
 

Gardener

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there are other rational explanations including the globalization of the economy meaning people with poor thinking skills or poor education can no longer make very good wages in factories. Plus, some would argue persuasively, that our entitlement rich society has sapped the desire of many to achieve--a desire that was not only more prevalent but far more necessary before the New Deal
I sure can't disagree with any of that.

Our entire attitude towards education needs to be revamped, since the chips on the collective shoulder have been translated into a general inversion of the desirability of having one. The derision so many kids face in school lest they actually try to learn something, or heaven forbid, display that they know something is such a disincentive that many kids turn off to the idea from the get go.
 
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that is akin to asking what will make every athlete equally talented or every girl equally pretty

its neither achieveable nor desireable
I didn't mean it that way. What I meant was more along the lines of reducing poverty, and increasing the financial ability of the middle class to invest, to go to more expensive colleges, to financially allow there their children better educational opportunites, and to be able to retire financially secure (not having to rely on social security and medicare) after a 40 years or so of work.

The middle 80% of our working poplulation makes between $20k and $80k a year (or Dsomething like that I didn't look up the exact numbers), a range of just $60k or so. The top 10% ranges from about $80k into litterally the billions per year, a range of a billion dollars or so. There just seems to be too much difference between those at the top (really just the top tenth of the top 1%) and those in the middle. My wee mind just cant comprehend how one individual with mearly mortal human abilities, even if extrordanary, can possibly be more productive than 20,000 average individuals all put together. To my lowly middle class pea brain, I would think that based on actual productivity and true economic value, that a more equitable income range would be much smaller than a 1:20,000 ratio. Maybe something like 1:100

Just using some basic logic, and assuming that if each normal increase in job responsibilities warrented a 50% pay increase:

Entry Level (no (low level) (1,953,120,): $20,000
Experianced low skill worker/team leader (390,624): $30,000
Assistant Department Manager (78125): 45,000
Manager/forman (15625): $67,500
Multi-department Manager (3125): $101,250
Director of Manufacturing (625): $151,875
Plant Manager (125): $227,812
Region Manager (25): $341,718
VP (5): $512,578
President/CEO (1): $768,867

Thats a 10 management level organization, probably pretty typical of most companies. Assuming that each level only supervised 5 people, that scenerio would hold true, it would take a company with well over two million employees to justify that many management levels, and based on my own experiance when I was employed as a manager in a plant, the salaries at least up to the 5th level are pretty realistic.

So exactly when does a one level promotion warrent a 10 or 100 fold increase in compensation (which somewhere along the way has to happen to get peoples salaries into the tens and even hundreds of millions)?
 

What if...?

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Nothing.

Income inequality will always exist, because people are not the same. Some people go the extra mile to excel, and some don't. Some people take chances with their money by investing, and some put it in the bank. Some do what ever it takes to succeed, and some do nothing and expect it to fall in their lap.

Why do you think socialism has never succeeded? People who are wealthy are so, because they were motivated to achieve that wealth for themselves, their families, their churches, or whatever... But they will not continue to make the necessary sacrifices and go the extra mile for the government, or for the collective. It's human nature, and just the way it is.
You are referring to communism, not socialism, as usual. Grossly oversimplified, socialism is somewhere between communism and capitalism, not a synonym for the former. And, of course, you leave the extreme of your position, (Mexico, for one), out of your arguments. Conservatives almost always do this, in response to any questioning of unchecked concentration of wealth. "If you're not rich, it's because you're not good enough, so suck it." And just so we're clear and I won't have to hear nonsense memes about greed, I define greed as 'grabbing wealth when you know good and well it would have gone to someone else had you not latched onto it, not wealth derived from something you made from nothing and therefore have every right to keep'. "Speculation" on real estate for example, an un-discussed factor in the recent housing bubble. So you go into a market, San Diego for instance, and you and your "friends" use your capital to buy a large percentage of the homes available for sale. This creates the false impression that demand for housing is up, and supply is limited, driving up prices. There was not an actual "shortage", no families who couldn't find a home to buy, purely artificial manipulation. Now you and your friends sell your properties at a profit, and families who need to buy/rent a home line your pockets, through home prices and rents inflated by this practice, which produces NOTHING BUT higher rents and home prices. A disgusting amount of the "wealth" generated in our economy is of this nature, so add this to the list of things I think should be addressed. Thus I weary of hearing about all the "sacrifices" made by the upper percentiles, and they have totally socialized risk, so they like some socialism. Maybe we should tax them until it's just not worth the effort to grab that kid's college fund by raising his parents' rent, hmm?
 

Mach

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So exactly when does a one level promotion warrent a 10 or 100 fold increase in compensation (which somewhere along the way has to happen to get peoples salaries into the tens and even hundreds of millions)?
It's warranted, oddly, whenever someone chooses to exchange that much money, for that persons output.
Or more importantly, it's none of your business, unless it's actually your business. If it's not your business, why are you attempting to get involved? It's like armchair quarterbacking...you aren't a pro, you're not on the team...enjoy your beer and hot dogs please.

You do understand how this works right? You own a business. You hire people for what you want, you offer goods/services, you may or may not profit. How could what you think, warrant what that person offers, if you're not the one being negotiated with? Sorry to say but the market demands what the market needs, and if you try to pay your VP less, they might just go work for someone else. Your call, your money. They made the call, they put their money into the VP for a particular outcome. Up to them to see if that return on investment pays off. It's NOT UP TO YOU and never should be (unless you're making the offer or literally involved in it).

We get these 20 year olds who think they know about business, or slackers who think they know the first thing about running a business division or product line, etc., and what the potential risks are. Hire a 2nd rate VP and you may sink a $20M business unit. Suddenly that $1M salary wasn't such a bad trade-off in hindsight. You may be keen on hiring 20K ditch diggers to manage your overseas investments, but then if it's so efficient, you'd think you'd be making a killing right now using your lucrative efficiency idea.!!

I won't re-write to make it less harsh, no time. I think you were asking a legitimate question, and I hope ignoring the harshness you see my point still. Asking is good...great, wish more did that. I'm just so use to the demands on this forum for them paying more taxes...which isn't in the form of questioning high salaries...if you know what I mean :)
 
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If this compromise goes down, what do you think happens next? First it means the end of pasing ANYTHING else in the lame duck session. It also means that the Republicans will be able to pass a tax cut in January after Democrats raised taxes in January. It also means that the cut in payroll taxes goes away, the extension of unemployment benefits either goes away or is delayed. So this would really be a scorched earth policy by the democratic congress. Not sure why anyone would think that this is a winner for anyone.

Incmome ineqality will not be fixed by raising taxes on people over $250K per year by 4%. Intelligent long term policies are what will be needed. We have seen nothing for the last two years that says there is any hope that this president will bring real change in this area.
Big Obama-GOP tax bill passes first Senate hurdle
 

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I never suggested that incomes should all be equal, only that the disparity between income levels and the disparity between wealth levels can not be explained by skill, hard work, risk, etc.

Income inequality has less to do with the things that you mentioned than it does cronyism, inheritance, nepatism, luck, and corruption.

I would like to see a society that tends to look down upon the things that do cause a rediculous disparity between income levels, instead of one that strives to justify such.
 

Barbbtx

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Any suggestions on what will fix income inequality?
What's the matter with income inequality as long as people have basic needs met?

I'm pretty poor, but I don't want money from Turtledude to make our incomes equal.
People have a right to get as rich as they want if they have the talent, work ethic, or any legal means they have to get there.
I'd have a lot more material things and money in the bank if I'd chosen to put more effort into it. I'm happy with what I have though and am not envious of people with more.
My family was poor when I was born. My dad worked his ass off and is what I would call wealthy today. No one has a right to ask him to redistribute his wealth. He earned every dime of what he has and people who would demonize him for his wealth, and would steal from him, make me sick.
 

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It's actually quite a bit my business when a company chooses to pay one or more individuals salaries that can't be economically justified. The reason that it is my business is that it effects my salary. At any particular point in time, a company can only spend a particular amount on salaries. Companies have limited financial resources, unlike the government. Every dollar that a company decides to pay someone due to corruption or cronyism is a dollar that they cant pay other employees. Every dollar that is over-paid to an employee is a dollar of profit that can't be returned to the stock holder or owner. So yes, it is everyones business what companies pay.

When GM complained last week that the salary caps on a few top CEO's are harming its ability to be profitable, thats totally bull****. GM claimed that it cant hire the good executives that it needs to become profitable. Well, I have a solution, since the executives at GM are apparently not good, then maybe they should all be fired and replaced by good ones. As crappy a job as they have done, they could probably find much better executives fairly easily. Just how good do you have to be to run a company in the ground? They could probably find better executives for 1/10th of what they currently pay. Surely there is someone in this world who could fill the shoes of the GM CEO for $400k per year (1/10th of what he currently makes). $400k is a lot of dough, there are some very capable people in this world who don't make anything like that much. Of course I seriously doubt that is what GM was suggesting when it complained - I would assume what they really meant was "us executives want to get paid more, we are stuggling to live off of the millions of dollars we are alread paid, we promise we would magically become better executives if we got paid even more more". OK then, do a better job and maybe you will get paid more. When my tax money has gone to bailing out GM due to their bad executives, it is definately my business how much they get paid.
 
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What's the matter with income inequality as long as people have basic needs met?

I'm pretty poor, but I don't want money from Turtledude to make our incomes equal.
People have a right to get as rich as they want if they have the talent, work ethic, or any legal means they have to get there.
I'd have a lot more material things and money in the bank if I'd chosen to put more effort into it. I'm happy with what I have though and am not envious of people with more.
My family was poor when I was born. My dad worked his ass off and is what I would call wealthy today. No one has a right to ask him to redistribute his wealth. He earned every dime of what he has and people who would demonize him for his wealth, and would steal from him, make me sick.
I am not talking about your dad here. I am talking about people who make incomes that can not be justified by any economic value for what they do. So maybe your dad has worked hard for 40 years and scrimped and saved and invested and has a net worth of a few million bucks. Thats the way it should be.

The people I am bitching about are the ones who make a few million bucks in a month or a day. We're talking about two totally different things here.
 
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Deuce

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People working hard to create a positive future for themselves and stop whining and rolling in their own feces?
You heard it here: Poor people are basically animals.
 

VanceMack

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You heard it here: Poor people are basically animals.
Whiny bitches that cry about how unfair the world is and want others to take care of them and spend the majority of their time rolling in it...but you bet...go that route. Or worse...pamper them and keep them dependent...thats MUCH more humane...hell...you can continue to **** them over for GENERATIONS with your 'generosity.' How AWESOME!!!
 

TheGirlNextDoor

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Moderator's Warning:
Let's be sure to stay on topic please. Thank you.
 

TurtleDude

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Some is rich and some is poor
And thats the way the world is
And I don't believe in lying back
And saying how bad your life is


Joe Strummer-Bankrobber
 
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