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Weird question about central air

radioman said:
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40 watt is more reasonable.
No way 40 watt bulbs would use as much power as your AC.....unless you have a hundred of them.
I think you've gotten a few good leads on this thread.
Good luck, my friend and goodnight.
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yeah the AC guy told us that the pot lights in the kitchen (6) and the ones in the stairs leading up to the bonus room (4) when turned on at the same time, are spiking at something like 19V or something. She said that the combined lights (10) are spiking at the same voltage that the AC spikes when it runs. 10 40 watt bulbs should not be using the same electricity as an AC unit. That, to me, sounds like 4 lamps running 100 watt bulbs. 4 lamps using the same electricity as a brand new AC unit? Sheesh.

And thank you, hon, and good night!
 
It sounds like two separate problems to me. A leak in the refrigerant lines will cause them to ice up and the unit to run all the time. We have a similar problem with an old commercial 3-door refrigeration unit.

I would also have your wiring checked. It sounds like you have something shorting out to a ground point. My first house had aluminum siding and there was a short to the siding which was grounded to a water pipe. It caused our bills to be much higher than our neighbors.

Document everything... it sounds like your builder is not quite stand up.
 
Occam's Razor said:
It sounds like two separate problems to me. A leak in the refrigerant lines will cause them to ice up and the unit to run all the time. We have a similar problem with an old commercial 3-door refrigeration unit.

I would also have your wiring checked. It sounds like you have something shorting out to a ground point. My first house had aluminum siding and there was a short to the siding which was grounded to a water pipe. It caused our bills to be much higher than our neighbors.

Document everything... it sounds like your builder is not quite stand up.
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No, sir, he's not, but I've got a lot of documented emails and texts where I've complained about this, practically since day one. Can the type of wiring problem you are talking about be found out without ripping apart the whole house? I don't want them to have to pull out sheetrock and insulation. :( That'd be expensive to fix.
 
Superfly said:
No, sir, he's not, but I've got a lot of documented emails and texts where I've complained about this, practically since day one. Can the type of wiring problem you are talking about be found out without ripping apart the whole house? I don't want them to have to pull out sheetrock and insulation. :( That'd be expensive to fix.
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yes, easily
 
Superfly said:
We are both home, all day long. And we do use fans. We have ceiling fans in every room, plus we sleep under 2 fans at night, and the girls sleep under a fan also. I would honestly be terrified to run my AC at 65/73.
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That is how I am in the winter because we have two natural gas furnaces hooked up to those two systems plus natural gas hot water. Your husband having COPD shouldn't be in 65° AC probably anyway. Maybe if you try a different type of sheets could help with the sweat issue IDK.

Have you had an inspection of your house looking for air loss with thermal imaging? Unless your house is huge, that just seems like a lot of electric. I know someone who ran it to an issue on a remodel where it seemed to make his house colder in winter. Turns out the contractor miscalculated and rather than eat it, they left gaps in the insulation they added, but then stripped out the old insulation.

There are things you can do in the long run that could help depending on your lot. Our lot had a wide open western and southern exposure when we bought the house so we cooked that first summer. That fall I went to a tree farm and bought the biggest maples they had and lined the western and southern side of my lot with them. They keep the sun off in the summer and the leaves fall allowing for the sun to hit us in the winter. It made a noticeable difference the following year and every year since it has just gotten better as they grew and filled out. I have also put in some strategically placed hedges/bushes that help keep the wind off the house as well.
 
Superfly said:
No, it doesn't really run constantly. The AC unit is supposed to be brand new, as the house is brand new. We don't know where to check for an air leak. The attic is explosively hot, and I'd think if there was a leak in the ductwork up there, we'd notice a change in the temp. It's hotter than the surface of the sun up there.
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I assume you have plenty of insulation in the attic? Insulation alone probably wouldn't explain everything, but it could help.

Sometimes (rarely) the house gets very cold. It's almost like it doesn't know when to turn on and when to turn off. There are times when it's on 75 and it's so effing cold in the house that I am looking for a blanket, and other times, like right now, at 105 in the morning, that I hear the air running from the vents, and my tee shirt is stuck to my back with sweat and the thermostat is still on 75. Freezing one minute, sweating the next? Makes no sense.
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Just out of curiosity, are you sure it's actually 75? Do you have a second thermometer your can put in the house to make sure the temperature on your thermostat is registering correctly?

I find it strange your house would remain hot if you can feel cold air blowing from your vents with a strong flow.

Yeah, we did all that last year when our bill skyrocketed. We had the AC guy come out and check everything over, and he said it was all fine. I think you're right, though, that I should get an independent AC guy to come out and look at it. Obviously, there's something wrong.
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Agreed. It'll probably cost you, but if he can fix it, you'll recoup your losses in less than a month.
 
Superfly said:
OK I have a weird question. I try to keep my thermostat set on 75. Our electric bill is really high (around $400+ a month, during the summer) so I tried to keep it on 78 but it was just too hot, and my husband has COPD and emphysema, so he can't breathe when he gets too hot. Anyway. So during the hottest part of the day, when it's around 90 to 95 outside, the house is quite comfortable at 75. However, at night, when the temps drop to 70 to 75, the house is just awful. It's so hot. Last night, I went to bed about 3am, and my tee shirt was stuck to my back from all the sweat. Now does that make sense to you?

I'd think, logically, that it'd be hotter in the house during the day than during the night, but the night is often unbearable. Also, logic would dictate that 75 is 75, no matter what the temp is outside.

Also, let me reiterate - I run an extremely high electric bill. It's at least double, if not triple, of everyone else's here in the neighborhood. Now this is a brand new house, only about a year old. Last Sunday, we woke up and the house was really hot. We went outside to see if the unit was running, and it was, but along all the wires leading into the house, they were frozen solid. We turned off the AC and turned the unit strictly on fan, and left it on until the ice melted. Once the ice melted, the air started working again. We had the HVAC guy come out and he had to put in a couple of pounds of Freon and said he thinks we have a bad *something-or-other* part.

Would that have anything to do with us sweltering at night? Would it have anything to do with our electric bill being so much higher than everyone elses? I don't want to depend on this guy to tell me the truth, because of course he's going to say that everything's fine and I'm worried over nothing. My husband and my daughters both said that it's unbearably hot at night, but I don't dare turn the thermostat down below 75. I couldn't imagine what the bill would be. :(
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Do you have any poltergiests? I suspect you are on top of an Indian burial ground.
 
Superfly said:
OK I have a weird question. I try to keep my thermostat set on 75. Our electric bill is really high (around $400+ a month, during the summer) so I tried to keep it on 78 but it was just too hot, and my husband has COPD and emphysema, so he can't breathe when he gets too hot. Anyway. So during the hottest part of the day, when it's around 90 to 95 outside, the house is quite comfortable at 75. However, at night, when the temps drop to 70 to 75, the house is just awful. It's so hot. Last night, I went to bed about 3am, and my tee shirt was stuck to my back from all the sweat. Now does that make sense to you?
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Maybe a relative rise in humidity from the A/C no longer running?
 
Have you actually used a thermometer to measure the temperature in your bedroom at night? It might be quite a bit warmer in there than in whatever room your thermostat is in. It could mean that the airflow in your system isn't balanced correctly.

You could also look into getting a ceiling fan if you don't have one.
 
Threegoofs said:
Seriously? You can't even open a window at night without setting off an alarm?

Sounds like you've imprisoned yourself in a hotbox!
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Yeah we have sensors on all the windows and doors. I don't sleep well, though, so what I might do is open the windows before I go to bed, if it's cooler outside than inside, and see if that helps. I can always close them when I finally get sleepy enough to go to bed.
 
Threegoofs said:
Seriously? You can't even open a window at night without setting off an alarm?

Sounds like you've imprisoned yourself in a hotbox!
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Maybe we just have a failure to communicate?
 
I do a lot of AC repairs, but on cars. The majority of my work right now is AC. The type of refrigerant used is different, but all the principles are the same. The icing is caused by a low charge, you already know that. BTW Freon is a name brand for R12 refrigerant made by DuPont. This is the type that we used to run in cars that was later replaced because it was environmentally unfriendly. The replacement type for cars is R134A which has similiar properties but is somewhat less efficient and only about 1/10 as damaging to the environment.

Anyway, if a home system is low the low side pressure becomes too low, the evaporator (the part that gets cold in the unit in the house) gets so cold that it ices up and restricts airflow. We recently had this happen, if we ran it for more than about a half an hour it would build up several pounds of ice. When the system was turned off or shut down the ice would melt and dump all that water in to the basement. Luckily the only damage we had was one old rug that got wet and mildewed.

When the evaporator gets cold a pleasant side affect is that it condenses the moisture out of the air and it is drained off. That is why it could be 75 degrees in your house and still feel uncomfortable, the humidity was not being removed. It does not take a very big leak at all to cause all this. The high pressure side on a home unit runs at about 245 psi, the low pressure side (the cold side) runs at about 85 psi. When the system is off the pressures equalize, so a static system will have well over 100 psi of pressure in it. Just a pin hole or a small leak in a seal can drain a system quickly. When you have your car AC running there will be clear water running out under the car. This is the moisture removed from the air. Let your car idle for a while and you will see how much moisture that really is in the small space of the interior of your car. You home unit produced an appreciable amount of water. If the drain tube is blocked it can also cause it to freeze on the evaporator leading to the same failure. I suspect your system has been leaking for a while, causing the unit to run much more than it should have. Hopefully after your repair the charge will be correct and you will see a dramatic drop in your power bill. BTW the biggest single electrical drain in your home, unless you have an electric oven that you use a LOT, is your clothes drier, followed by your water heater. A water heater blanket can reduce it's power consumption by almost 1/2. If you find your drier takes a long time or your clothes are coming out damp disconnect it, pull the rear panel off and vacuum it out. If you can't clean out the vent hose just replace it. they are very cheap. Drier lint buildup is also the #1 fire hazard in your home.
 
tech30528 said:
I do a lot of AC repairs, but on cars. The majority of my work right now is AC. The type of refrigerant used is different, but all the principles are the same. The icing is caused by a low charge, you already know that. BTW Freon is a name brand for R12 refrigerant made by DuPont. This is the type that we used to run in cars that was later replaced because it was environmentally unfriendly. The replacement type for cars is R134A which has similiar properties but is somewhat less efficient and only about 1/10 as damaging to the environment.

Anyway, if a home system is low the low side pressure becomes too low, the evaporator (the part that gets cold in the unit in the house) gets so cold that it ices up and restricts airflow. We recently had this happen, if we ran it for more than about a half an hour it would build up several pounds of ice. When the system was turned off or shut down the ice would melt and dump all that water in to the basement. Luckily the only damage we had was one old rug that got wet and mildewed.

When the evaporator gets cold a pleasant side affect is that it condenses the moisture out of the air and it is drained off. That is why it could be 75 degrees in your house and still feel uncomfortable, the humidity was not being removed. It does not take a very big leak at all to cause all this. The high pressure side on a home unit runs at about 245 psi, the low pressure side (the cold side) runs at about 85 psi. When the system is off the pressures equalize, so a static system will have well over 100 psi of pressure in it. Just a pin hole or a small leak in a seal can drain a system quickly. When you have your car AC running there will be clear water running out under the car. This is the moisture removed from the air. Let your car idle for a while and you will see how much moisture that really is in the small space of the interior of your car. You home unit produced an appreciable amount of water. If the drain tube is blocked it can also cause it to freeze on the evaporator leading to the same failure. I suspect your system has been leaking for a while, causing the unit to run much more than it should have. Hopefully after your repair the charge will be correct and you will see a dramatic drop in your power bill. BTW the biggest single electrical drain in your home, unless you have an electric oven that you use a LOT, is your clothes drier, followed by your water heater. A water heater blanket can reduce it's power consumption by almost 1/2. If you find your drier takes a long time or your clothes are coming out damp disconnect it, pull the rear panel off and vacuum it out. If you can't clean out the vent hose just replace it. they are very cheap. Drier lint buildup is also the #1 fire hazard in your home.
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Thanks, hon. Very informative. We actually did move the dryer into the garage, because the builder had the way it was set up all jacked up and the hose that connects to the hole in the wall was all twisted and curvy. It was taking 3 and 4 times through the dryer to dry one load of towels, and it's a 2 year old dryer so it's like new. We have noticed a significant drop in times that we need to run the towels through, so that will help some, although it only made our bill drop by about $25. Not much when you have a $400+ bill. :(

We don't have a hot water heater blanket, but the house was built with the hot water heater in the attic, so even in the winter, it's very hot in the attic, which makes the hot water heater not have to run as often. My next project is to move the chest freezer into the laundry room, and out of the garage. The garage is explosively hot, and that means the freezer has to run more to keep it cold. Since we moved the dryer to the garage, we have room in the laundry room for the freezer. I hate that the washer and dryer are separate - they look kind of ghetto being all separate like that, but I'll take ghetto over $400 electric bills any day.
 
Superfly said:
OK I have a weird question. I try to keep my thermostat set on 75. Our electric bill is really high (around $400+ a month, during the summer) so I tried to keep it on 78 but it was just too hot, and my husband has COPD and emphysema, so he can't breathe when he gets too hot. Anyway. So during the hottest part of the day, when it's around 90 to 95 outside, the house is quite comfortable at 75. However, at night, when the temps drop to 70 to 75, the house is just awful. It's so hot. Last night, I went to bed about 3am, and my tee shirt was stuck to my back from all the sweat. Now does that make sense to you?

I'd think, logically, that it'd be hotter in the house during the day than during the night, but the night is often unbearable. Also, logic would dictate that 75 is 75, no matter what the temp is outside.

Also, let me reiterate - I run an extremely high electric bill. It's at least double, if not triple, of everyone else's here in the neighborhood. Now this is a brand new house, only about a year old. Last Sunday, we woke up and the house was really hot. We went outside to see if the unit was running, and it was, but along all the wires leading into the house, they were frozen solid. We turned off the AC and turned the unit strictly on fan, and left it on until the ice melted. Once the ice melted, the air started working again. We had the HVAC guy come out and he had to put in a couple of pounds of Freon and said he thinks we have a bad *something-or-other* part.

Would that have anything to do with us sweltering at night? Would it have anything to do with our electric bill being so much higher than everyone elses? I don't want to depend on this guy to tell me the truth, because of course he's going to say that everything's fine and I'm worried over nothing. My husband and my daughters both said that it's unbearably hot at night, but I don't dare turn the thermostat down below 75. I couldn't imagine what the bill would be. :(
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yall is crazy,in texas setting my ac to 85 feels like a winterland when i get off work,maybe its just so hot here 85 feels cold after a while
 
Superfly said:
OK I have a weird question. I try to keep my thermostat set on 75. Our electric bill is really high (around $400+ a month, during the summer) so I tried to keep it on 78 but it was just too hot, and my husband has COPD and emphysema, so he can't breathe when he gets too hot. Anyway. So during the hottest part of the day, when it's around 90 to 95 outside, the house is quite comfortable at 75. However, at night, when the temps drop to 70 to 75, the house is just awful. It's so hot. Last night, I went to bed about 3am, and my tee shirt was stuck to my back from all the sweat. Now does that make sense to you?

I'd think, logically, that it'd be hotter in the house during the day than during the night, but the night is often unbearable. Also, logic would dictate that 75 is 75, no matter what the temp is outside.

Also, let me reiterate - I run an extremely high electric bill. It's at least double, if not triple, of everyone else's here in the neighborhood. Now this is a brand new house, only about a year old. Last Sunday, we woke up and the house was really hot. We went outside to see if the unit was running, and it was, but along all the wires leading into the house, they were frozen solid. We turned off the AC and turned the unit strictly on fan, and left it on until the ice melted. Once the ice melted, the air started working again. We had the HVAC guy come out and he had to put in a couple of pounds of Freon and said he thinks we have a bad *something-or-other* part.

Would that have anything to do with us sweltering at night? Would it have anything to do with our electric bill being so much higher than everyone elses? I don't want to depend on this guy to tell me the truth, because of course he's going to say that everything's fine and I'm worried over nothing. My husband and my daughters both said that it's unbearably hot at night, but I don't dare turn the thermostat down below 75. I couldn't imagine what the bill would be. :(
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Do you have a 2-story home? Bedrooms upstairs? That'll do it, Superfly.
 
MaggieD said:
Do you have a 2-story home? Bedrooms upstairs? That'll do it, Superfly.
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Nope. It's considered 1.5 floors, but all the living space is on the first floor. There's a finished bonus room upstairs, but it's never used, and it's on an entirely separate heating and cooling system (that's never on).
 
The water heater in the attic (assuming it sits in a containment tub) is a great idea.
 
Superfly, I feel your pain with the high electric bills. I think you should get your air conditioner looked at again by someone else and get it fixed and also find out if it is big enough for your house and find out what SEER rating it has. I have had my share of air conditioner problems and high electric bills here in Georgia. I ended up getting whole new air conditioner systems for both my house and my rental house. I got better SEER rating systems (went from SEER 10 to SEER 13 which is 30% more efficient) and that also stopped the regular refrigerant charging I used to need. I also have done other things to help reduce my electric bill such as plant bushes and trees around the house so more windows have shade. I also have low wattage light bulbs throughout the house.
 
Well - Super - did you get the dehumidifiers. You would be shocked at how much of a difference it can make. If your house is a bit too warm - the lack of humidity indoors will make it feel cooler. Get them, even if you resolve nothing else. You'll have to dump the water-trough once a day (or more) on super humid days - put one in your room.

We live in Arkansas - and for several years we didn't have AC at all (no window - no central) . . . beat the uncomfortable nights by spritzing your flat sheet with water - then covering up (I tell you - it's heavenly . . . you'll fall asleep nice and cool - spritz again if you wake and you're warm.)

Cold compresses on feet while they're elevated can reduce swelling of the feet/lower legs which improves blood flow and overall physical comfort.

Popsicles are one of the best ways to cool down (get the healthier ones)

....and above all: threaten your landlord/maintenance guy (he seems to be stuck with you) with a lawsuit if he doesn't fix your **** - you SHOULD be able to open your windows at night, you SHOULD be able to get things fixed without being lied to.

Call the electric company and see if they can have someone come out and trace down your spikes - that's in their BEST INTEREST and some do it for free.

In the meantime - consider unplugging unused/rarely used items - do away with the bulbs/lights that are thought to be causing a problem (just don't use them). You can buy some cheap and reliable plug-in table-top lamps if you need to.

Check your ductwork for tears and holes that are venting cool air elsewhere (if you already did that - I didn't see it written down)
 
another thing to consider is that you have a few energy draws when it comes ot AC's.. inside, you'll notice the AC running and then shutting off... that is the air mover, it's basically a fan that blows across the evaporator and through your vents.... what you don't notice is the condenser fan, which is also a big draw... and it might be running continuously outside.
an undercharge condition can cause it to run continuously,( as can other items, such as low or high pressure switches)
the condenser fan is controlled by pressure, not temperature ( the evaporator fan is thermostatically controlled)..as Tech so astutely pointed out, there is a low side and high side to an AC unit.. a condenser fan will come on when the high side reaches a set pressure, and it will turn off when the high side goes back below the pressure threshold.
the evaporator fan and condenser fan will operate independently, primarily because they are controlled differently.
the condenser fan blows air across the coils, removing heat from the refrigerant, thereby causing the pressure to decrease

a continuously running condenser fan will cause lines to "freeze" up ( especially in high humidity) , as will a low charge situation... oddly enough, a low charge situation can cause the condenser fan to run more often and longer than it would under an optimal charge, especially if there are foreign particulates in the lines ( water, air, metal shavings from the compressor, etc)

it's sounds like an odd thing to note, but i will anyways... AC's do NOT cool the air... they remove the heat. ( there is a difference)
this gets kinda important at night, when your ac is set to 75, and the temp outside drops...your AC is still doing the same job it does during the day, but with less heat to remove, the temp inside feels like it's not as cold as it was during the heat of the day...also with less heat to remove, your AC is not as efficient at removing the humidity ( which causes one to perceive that it's a bit hotter )

want to freeze yourself out at night and save some dough?... kick that thermostat to 78 or 80 at night, but get that air moving inside the house... ceiling fans are cool, but we use those bladeless ubercool fans( very low energy consumption) that still boggle my mind.
the air coming out of the AC will be the same temp regardless of what you set it at( setting it at 50 won't make it blow any colder, it'll just operate longer).. but it will run quite a bit less at night... the air in the house, which will be a bit more humid, will feel cooler as it moves around ( the humidity greatly helps this, but you don't want 90% humidity in the house, which is why you use the AC to periodically remove the humidity through the night)

I run the ac at 72 during the day, 82 at night( it's about 100 degrees here)... and get frozen toes all night long... getting that air moving is very important.
 
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