We Stand for Democracy

[Old 'N Chill]

Since when has spreading propaganda and misinformation been a problem for you?

In fact you're doing it right now and the reason is quite simple.

No one believes people like you when you claim there is no voter suppression going on here, it's extremely obvious what is going on and why...

The reason you are lying to everyone is that you support it's efforts because your political wants, outweigh your desire for a truly free and democratic society as you have demonstrated quite clearly since Trumps loss especially, you are willing to spread lies and misinformation to undermine Democracy itself and in fact when confronted with Trumps efforts to undermine the Postal Service in order to stop as many mail in ballots as possible from being counted...

Your response was "We are not a democracy, nor should we be!".

Says everything we need to know about your dishonest and shallow efforts to support widespread voter disenfranchisement...

Because you think it'll mean it's more likely politicians you happen to support will win, including the dictator you want to install by lying about the Democratic Process itself.

So much for the rights of the individual...

More like rights for those you happen to agree with.

Well said, thank you.

 

[dcsports]

You made a claim, which you did not back up (which is normal). Then you simply repeated your claim after I noted that no evidence exists other than your claim and and an assertion by some right wing blogger, which is the only thing I could find (since you won’t back up your claims).

Skiping the middle is what you do when you can’t refute the obvious.

As for the GOP not proposing a universal voter ID, that could easily be incorporated into the Voting Rights Act for all Federal elections.

Of course, the GOP has been trying to reverse or ignore the Voting Rights Act since 1966,

I don't have to provide annotated footnotes every time I bring up some example from history. There is an internet for that. I also don't have to respond to every notion you post.

The proposed act is very bad - much of it is likely unconstitutional. It's not going to pass - and shouldn't. As far as incorporating voter ID - a national ID has been an issue for some time, again with constitutional issues. Again, not necessary at the federal level.

The GOP has not 'been trying to reverse or ignore' the VRA. That's silly. What has been an issue is the preclearance portion, which was poorly written and applied unequally. It ended up punishing states for conditions that existed half a century ago, and as I said, made it difficult to make changes, good or bad. Texas is a good example of what can happen when the states had more control. Early voting was drastically expanded and made easier - and is now the primary way people vote in the state.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Until a recount and examination of the votes in the disputed precincts is done, we wont know who was fighting in defense of democracy and who was fighting to tear it down.

We already know. You’re under the impression the folks who tried to literally overthrow our democracy get to stand in judgement of these things. The American public - from the voters to virtually ever corner of industry - has rejected the GOP’s insurrection and voter suppression.

The country sees you folks now.

 

[Anthony60]

Yeah...damn those people who rely on reason and intelligence and don't buy into made up false narratives with no evidence behind them that purport a demagogue as the winner in an election he clearly lost. Damn them all to hell!

lol

They are nowhere near reason and intelligence, especially if they believe that the mail in voting is secure enough to trust for an election.

 

[Ikari]

They are nowhere near reason and intelligence, especially if they believe that the mail in voting is secure enough to trust for an election.

lol
Well when you get some data to back up that claim. Til then Colorado says otherwise.

 

[dixon01767]

Like those who believed in the stolen election false narrative? They're called the Trump Cult.

They are called half the voting population.

A majority (51%) of voters believe it is likely that cheating affected the outcome of the 2020 presidential election, including 35% who say it’s Very Likely cheating affected the election.
Election Integrity: 62% Don’t Think Voter ID Laws Discriminate - Rasmussen Reports®

Nobody has yet checked to see if its true or false. Thats why that # above has been increasing. The Bush Gore election they recounted every single vote in Florida. This go around they havent gone back to even one of the disputed voting precincts to even look to see if any of the allegations are true.

 

[Ikari]

They are called half the voting population.

Mostly I just call them assholes, lol. There's no evidence for any of it, just a bunch of sore losers being sore losers and crying about losing and making excuses for losing and generally being a pain-in-the-ass for the rest of us. No one of any moderate and higher level of intelligence believes that nonsense.

 

[dixon01767]

They are nowhere near reason and intelligence, especially if they believe that the mail in voting is secure enough to trust for an election.

They could be but the 2020 election shows why they are not. Signed affidavit alleging stacks of sequentially numbered mail in ballots being counted. Some one should examine the ballots in that district to see if they exist, and if they do, their legitimacy or illegitimacy can be determined. Signed affidavit stating stacks of un creased mail in ballots being counted the same. Same for stacks of mail in ballots, ALL with only a vote for Biden and no other candidates selected. Same for Truckloads of mail in ballots from one state shipped to another on election day. Each of these specific to 1 particular voting district. And examination of just the mail in ballots in that particular district would show the claims are BS or valid.
The fact that none of these districts have been examined to refute or confirm is why half the voters believe it cant be trusted.

THE ONLY voting district that has been partially examined in the entire country was in Montana.

"Its conclusions were troubling: 4,592 out of the 72,491 mail-in ballots lacked envelopes— 6.33% of all votes. Without an officially printed envelope with registration information, a voter's signature, and a postmark indicating whether it was cast on time, election officials cannot verify that a ballot is legitimate. It is against the law to count such votes.

What’s more, according to auditors, county employees claimed that during the post-election audit, some of the envelopes may have been double-counted, possibly indicating an even higher number of missing envelopes.

Auditors also tested a smaller, random sub-sample of 15,455 mail-in envelopes for other defects. Of these, 55 lacked postmark dates, and 53 never had their signatures checked — for a total of 0.7% of all ballots in the sample. No envelope had more than one irregularity.

Extrapolating from the sub-sample, that would make more than 5,000 of Missoula County’s votes — roughly 7% — with unexplained irregularities.

Still another issue arose during the audit that aroused auditors’ suspicions: Dozens of ballot envelopes bore strikingly similar, distinctive handwriting styles in the signatures, suggesting that one or several persons may have filled out and submitted multiple ballots, an act of fraud.

One auditor asserted that of 28 envelopes reviewed from the same address, a nursing home, all 28 signatures looked “exactly the same” stylistically.

Another auditor reported that among the envelopes she reviewed, two very unique signatures appeared dozens of times, describing one such signature as starting out flat, moving to a peak, and tapering out, and another as consisting of numerous circles — a “bubble signature.”

Auditors were unable to conduct a more comprehensive count because, they say, Missoula County elections officials refused to permit them to take pictures of the signatures, and envelopes were not shared across the different tabulation tables at the audit, so reviewers could not cross-compare ballot samples."
A River of Doubt Runs Through Mail Voting in Montana | RealClearInvestigations

 

[dixon01767]

Mostly I just call them assholes, lol. There's no evidence for any of it,

Thats because no one has yet looked where the evidence would be found. In the ballots themselves.

 

[Anthony60]

Thats because no one has yet looked where the evidence would be found. In the ballots themselves.

When I went to sleep, Trump was doing very well, was in position to win. In the morning, I couldn't believe what they were showing. I knew something was wrong, there was no way that Biden got that many more votes. Then all the info about counting being stopped, vote observers being sent home, then the counting went on. Truck load of ballots being delivered from NY to PA. Then the statistical impossibilities that Biden had to pull off in multiple States to win. Another damning fact, that these incredible turnarounds only happened in the States that Biden needed it to happen in. Other States, nothing much happened. Only the battleground States were Biden needed it to happen, against all odds.

They knew they were going to lose, so they basically pulled out all the stops, on the middle of the night. What did they have to lose? Nothing at all, because they knew no one was ever going to turn over an election.

 

[dixon01767]

When I went to sleep, Trump was doing very well, was in position to win. In the morning, I couldn't believe what they were showing.

The entire election was won in just 4 voting districts all within just a few hours, late at night. All 4 of which had claimed to have stopped counting.

 

[Anthony60]

The entire election was won in just 4 voting districts all within just a few hours, late at night. All 4 of which had claimed to have stopped counting.

Yes, it didn't take a large amount of manipulation, just a few key areas. Send everyone home, do what they had to do, then start counting again. I remember people testifying that they got around 90k votes in to count, and it was 87k for Biden and 3k for Trump. All of a sudden, just like that, Biden got an immense turnaround where he had previously been losing. And it only happened in States where he needed it to happen. Imagine that luck!

 

[TomFitz]

I don't have to provide annotated footnotes every time I bring up some example from history. There is an internet for that. I also don't have to respond to every notion you post.

The proposed act is very bad - much of it is likely unconstitutional. It's not going to pass - and shouldn't. As far as incorporating voter ID - a national ID has been an issue for some time, again with constitutional issues. Again, not necessary at the federal level.

The GOP has not 'been trying to reverse or ignore' the VRA. That's silly. What has been an issue is the preclearance portion, which was poorly written and applied unequally. It ended up punishing states for conditions that existed half a century ago, and as I said, made it difficult to make changes, good or bad. Texas is a good example of what can happen when the states had more control. Early voting was drastically expanded and made easier - and is now the primary way people vote in the state.

It isn’t history if no evidence exists.

You made the claim. Now you’re spending a lot of time explaining why you‘re not going to back it up.

People who make a point of saying that they won’t (most often because they made it up), deserve no credibility.’

If you’re going to assert something is fact. It’s on you to prove it.

We’re not doing your homework for you.

And there is no evidence to support your claim, which I have pointed out to you twice now.

And, of course the GOP has been trying to destroy the VRA. They’re the ones who brought the case to the right wing Supreme Court that overturned most of it.

And they’re the ones who are vocally opposed to putting it back.

And they’re the ones running desparate efforts to pass voter supression laws in the wake of their losses in 2020.

 

[dcsports]

It isn’t history if no evidence exists.

You made the claim. Now you’re spending a lot of time explaining why you‘re not going to back it up.

People who make a point of saying that they won’t (most often because they made it up), deserve no credibility.’

If you’re going to assert something is fact. It’s on you to prove it.

We’re not doing your homework for you.

And there is no evidence to support your claim, which I have pointed out to you twice now.

And, of course the GOP has been trying to destroy the VRA. They’re the ones who brought the case to the right wing Supreme Court that overturned most of it.

And they’re the ones who are vocally opposed to putting it back.

And they’re the ones running desparate efforts to pass voter supression laws in the wake of their losses in 2020.

The royal 'we'? I think you mean you. I'm not going to do your homework. You can look it up, or not. But I'm not interested in your pestering. Take care.

 

[calamity]

The following two-page ad appeared in the NYT and the Washington Post and other major newspapers:

"A Government of the people, by the people. A beautifully American ideal, but a reality denied to many for much of this nation’s history. As Americans, we know that in our democracy we should not expect to agree on everything. However, regardless of our political affiliations, we believe the very foundation of our electoral process rests upon the ability of each of us to cast our ballots for the candidates of our choice. For American democracy to work for any of us, we must ensure the right to vote for all of us. We all should feel a responsibility to defend the right to vote and to oppose any discriminatory legislation or measures that restrict or prevent any eligible voter from having an equal and fair opportunity to cast a ballot. Voting is the lifeblood of our democracy and we call upon all Americans to join us in taking a nonpartisan stand for this most basic and fundamental right of all Americans."

Here's a portion of it:

View attachment 67328669
General Motors. IBM. Ford Motor Company. And hundreds and hundreds of others.

This is aimed at you, Republicans, and your attempts to suppress democracy.

Nice.

Republicans all hate democracy. But, only a few of them have the guts to openly admit it.

 

[dcsports]

Republicans all hate democracy. But, only a few of them have the guts to openly admit it.

Really not true. That type of statement says more about the person making it than anyone else.

 

[jpn]

Really not true. That type of statement says more about the person making it than anyone else.

Do you support democracy even when you lose? That's the principle that is being tested and which many Republicans (and most elected national-level Republicans) are failing to uphold.

 

[mrjurrs]

No, this is aimed at the low information voters, who believe this garbage.

Looking forward to a more specific complaint. Or is this just a general 'Get off my lawn' response?

 

[Carl Young]

Lotta changes to a system that was always fine before they started losing. Seems kind of cheap and corrupt, quite frankly.

The system was always fine before the changes? Then single day voting should be reintroduced.

In the United States, Election Day is the annual day set by law for the general elections of federal public officials. It is statutorily set by the Federal Government as "the Tuesday next after the first Monday in the month of November"[1] equaling the Tuesday occurring within November 2 to November 8.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_Day_(United_States)

 

[Carl Young]

Looking forward to a more specific complaint. Or is this just a general 'Get off my lawn' response?

Low information voters are those who need weeks to cast a ballot.

 

[calamity]

Low information voters are those who need weeks to cast a ballot.

Nazis only need 30 seconds, and most of that time is spent trying to figure out how the buttons work.

 

[mrjurrs]

Low information voters are those who need weeks to cast a ballot.

Well that's just an opinion. I don't cast my ballot until I've had it for at least a couple of weeks because I study what is on it.

 

[Carl Young]

Well that's just an opinion. I don't cast my ballot until I've had it for at least a couple of weeks because I study what is on it.

Four years of experience isn't enough for you? What and where do you get the information you study?

 

[mrjurrs]

Four years of experience isn't enough for you? What and where do you get the information you study?

Re propositions-
Read the summaries in the voter guide. Determine which ones are no-brainers for me. Next, I read the rebuttals to supporting and opposing positions and look to see who wrote them. Some groups can automatically eliminate or generate my support. Remaining props get a look at source of funding and potential revenue.

Re candidates-
Don't need much help here, I only vote D because they stand closest to what I'd really like to see happen.

 

[Lucky 1]

The following two-page ad appeared in the NYT and the Washington Post and other major newspapers:

"A Government of the people, by the people. A beautifully American ideal, but a reality denied to many for much of this nation’s history. As Americans, we know that in our democracy we should not expect to agree on everything. However, regardless of our political affiliations, we believe the very foundation of our electoral process rests upon the ability of each of us to cast our ballots for the candidates of our choice. For American democracy to work for any of us, we must ensure the right to vote for all of us. We all should feel a responsibility to defend the right to vote and to oppose any discriminatory legislation or measures that restrict or prevent any eligible voter from having an equal and fair opportunity to cast a ballot. Voting is the lifeblood of our democracy and we call upon all Americans to join us in taking a nonpartisan stand for this most basic and fundamental right of all Americans."

Here's a portion of it:

View attachment 67328669
General Motors. IBM. Ford Motor Company. And hundreds and hundreds of others.

This is aimed at you, Republicans, and your attempts to suppress democracy.

Nice.

And just what attempt to suppress democracy would that be??? Or were you referring to states like Georgia who are securing the election process for the benefit of the country by requiring voter ID????