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Inuyasha

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I have always been a supporter of this idea. I believe everyone, including the children of the rich and powerful, should spend 18 months in the service of the country.

The education that one receives in the military is invaluable later on in life. It teaches responsibility, work ethic, sense of duty, good manners and it puts order into one's life. I believe it would do many things for everyone in society. I have seen many people who have been put on a positive path, myself included, because of their military training. It also helps to instill the true understanding of what it is to live in a democracy. You will spend the first 6 months living in a totally authoritarian state where you have few rights and no voice. It will make for less crime and more responsible action. You won't need recruiters on campus either.
 

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Inuyasha said:
I have always been a supporter of this idea. I believe everyone, including the children of the rich and powerful, should spend 18 months in the service of the country.

The education that one receives in the military is invaluable later on in life. It teaches responsibility, work ethic, sense of duty, good manners and it puts order into one's life. I believe it would do many things for everyone in society. I have seen many people who have been put on a positive path, myself included, because of their military training. It also helps to instill the true understanding of what it is to live in a democracy. You will spend the first 6 months living in a totally authoritarian state where you have few rights and no voice. It will make for less crime and more responsible action. You won't need recruiters on campus either.

The concept is sound, and would likely benefit the vast majority of the population. The implementation however, goes against much of the jist of our constitution.....I say we wait till it recovers a bit from the stomping its getting right now.
 

ngdawg

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I'm more for the idea of serving in the Peace Corps....it's beneficial to both the server and the served, one would learn about other parts of the world's citizens and they're not being sent to kill or be killed.
 

Inuyasha

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ngdawg said:
I'm more for the idea of serving in the Peace Corps....it's beneficial to both the server and the served, one would learn about other parts of the world's citizens and they're not being sent to kill or be killed.
That would be acceptable but I would still want them to go through at least a 10 week basic training and the same one that infantry soldiers go through. But most of the peace corps volunteers often have a higher level of education and just the desire to be in the peace corps already show some sense of responsibility and self discipline.
 

ngdawg

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Well, those are volunteers...
What if it was required? one year of service before entering college...perhaps earning some credit as you serve.
The draft, in full force during VietNam, sent some of the most scared, inept boys into a war they had no clue about, promoted 'boys' to levels of command and caused a LOT of bitterness both within the service and civilian life. Do we really want that back? And do we really want to send what could be some of our brightest minds but worst defenders into unknown hostile territories, knowing full well they have NO desire to be there?
Quick analogy: my son is part of a soccer team. the coach takes a boy, hands him the goalie shirt. game starts-the opposing team approaches the goal, kicks one in and the goalie stood there and watched the ball. when asked why did he not defend his position, he said 'I hate playing goalie'....he got kicked out.
 

Arch Enemy

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Yeah I like that idea.

lets put our youth into 10 weeks of teaching them how to kill on command, without passion for the person they're killing.

I was being sarcastic, I think that idea is intolerable and downright absurd.

If someone wants to jump in front of bullets, then that's what they want to do.. one shouldn't be forced to jump in front of bullets.
 

Inuyasha

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Arch Enemy said:
Yeah I like that idea.

lets put our youth into 10 weeks of teaching them how to kill on command, without passion for the person they're killing.

I was being sarcastic, I think that idea is intolerable and downright absurd.

If someone wants to jump in front of bullets, then that's what they want to do.. one shouldn't be forced to jump in front of bullets.
Learning to kill people is the least that you learn in basic traning. If you want to learn to kill just go down and take some classes with teenagers that live in the projects. 10 times more people are killed by violence in one year on the streets than have killed in the worst year of WWII.

It's very hard to talk to people who have never gone through the expeience of strict dicipiliary training. In the first weeks of training ones spends little time doing anything but learning personal resposiblity. Fire arms training does not take up the majority of time. it is about keeping order in the barracks, picking up after yourself, learning camaradeire, learning to how to and why to follow orders and lots of close order drill and PT. It has very little to do with killing and much more to do with survival. Learning to kill comes later, not in basic training.

On this board there seems to be a lot of folks talking about killing other folks. I am not advocating that. besides most of that is just talk. Killing people makes you violently ill and remains with you your whole life. If it doersn't you are probably abnormal and a danger to society.
 

MrFungus420

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Are you familiar with the Constitution? Specifically, the 13th Amendment? It is a prohibition against involuntary servitude, which is exactly what you are proposing.
 

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Inuyasha said:
Learning to kill people is the least that you learn in basic traning. If you want to learn to kill just go down and take some classes with teenagers that live in the projects. 10 times more people are killed by violence in one year on the streets than have killed in the worst year of WWII.
The least? What do you mean about that? I believe that killing someone is the most important thing you learn to do and how to deal with the situation.

The difference between learning by your method and going to the projects is just this.. your method is FORCING people to learn such terrible tactics, whereas the whole projects learning is if one wishes to live in the projects, not by force but by choice.

It's very hard to talk to people who have never gone through the expeience of strict dicipiliary training. In the first weeks of training ones spends little time doing anything but learning personal resposiblity. Fire arms training does not take up the majority of time. it is about keeping order in the barracks, picking up after yourself, learning camaradeire, learning to how to and why to follow orders and lots of close order drill and PT. It has very little to do with killing and much more to do with survival. Learning to kill comes later, not in basic training.
Never have I read, "Strict disciplinary training is good" or anything of that sorts. Going through strict disciplinary training does infact lead to a diminishing of one's personality.
On this board there seems to be a lot of folks talking about killing other folks. I am not advocating that. besides most of that is just talk. Killing people makes you violently ill and remains with you your whole life. If it doersn't you are probably abnormal and a danger to society.
Then why teach people how to more efficently kill someone else?
 

Caine

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Inuyasha said:
I have always been a supporter of this idea. I believe everyone, including the children of the rich and powerful, should spend 18 months in the service of the country.

The education that one receives in the military is invaluable later on in life. It teaches responsibility, work ethic, sense of duty, good manners and it puts order into one's life. I believe it would do many things for everyone in society. I have seen many people who have been put on a positive path, myself included, because of their military training. It also helps to instill the true understanding of what it is to live in a democracy. You will spend the first 6 months living in a totally authoritarian state where you have few rights and no voice. It will make for less crime and more responsible action. You won't need recruiters on campus either.
Besides all the points that have already been made, the constitution, teching people to kill, etc... I have this argument, well, first, let me add that weapons training IS the bulk of the training time, as you spend more time on it than on anything else, even if you don't learn all that much about it, you spend time getting good at it.

But, lets move on.
Individuality is extremely frowned upon in the military. If you send ALL 18 year olds into military service prior to going on to moving on with thier lives, I seriously believe that we would lose, well, for one we would lose large amounts of "free thinking" in the country, as they attempt to conform your minds to think alike, two, we would lose a considerable amount of individuality and creative ability. Im just speaking from my own experience in the military, everyone is taught to be the same, think the same, act the same, move at the same time, and being an invidiual or being "yourself" is frowned upon.
 

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Have you ever heard of Miyamoto Musashi?
 

Caine

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Inuyasha said:
Have you ever heard of Miyamoto Musashi?
No, and what does this have to do with a forced servitude program in America?
 

Inuyasha

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No, and what does this have to do with a forced servitude program in America?
It has to do with self.discipline which this country both liberals and conservatives badly need. Above all the younger generation who have lived the good life without really earning it.

This country has used the draft many times, that is not different from UMT. Is the draft forced servitude? Froced servitude my @SS. Any way to get out of obligation is all right I suppose.
 

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Inuyasha said:
It has to do with self.discipline which this country both liberals and conservatives badly need. Above all the younger generation who have lived the good life without really earning it.
Liberal and Conservativism has nothing to do self-discipline. We have an all volunteer military that is set in place to protect us so that we can be FREE. There are plenty of ways to learn self discipline, it starts in the HOME. Parents need to be more focused on teaching thier children self discipline rather than depending on the School system or Forced Government Servitude to do it for them.

This country has used the draft many times, that is not different from UMT. Is the draft forced servitude? Froced servitude my @SS.
Okay, the draft is.. Serve (if your physically/mentally able) or be punished (jail) how is this not forced?
Any way to get out of obligation is all right I suppose.
Umm... What exactly are you trying to say?:shock:
 

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Inuyasha said:
It has to do with self.discipline which this country both liberals and conservatives badly need.
So, why don't you call for mandatory training in martial arts? It can be started younger, it doesn't emphasize killing and it is a good basis for an exercise regime for the rest of a person's life, making them healthier and reducing health costs for the entire country.

Inuyasha said:
Above all the younger generation who have lived the good life without really earning it.
Without earning it? It almost sounds like you think that since they haven't fought in a war, they don't deserve to have a good life. Very few people are given a good life, most have to work at it their entire life.

Inuyasha said:
This country has used the draft many times, that is not different from UMT. Is the draft forced servitude?
Let's see, being forced into service...sounds like it could almost be a textbook example of forced servitude.

Inuyasha said:
Froced servitude my @SS. Any way to get out of obligation is all right I suppose.
Funny, one of the reasons that I decided to enlist was to help defend the Constitution. Apparently, you don't hold it worth defending.

We have a volunteer military, there is no obligation.
 

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Inuyasha said:
It has to do with self.discipline which this country both liberals and conservatives badly need. Above all the younger generation who have lived the good life without really earning it.

This country has used the draft many times, that is not different from UMT. Is the draft forced servitude? Froced servitude my @SS. Any way to get out of obligation is all right I suppose.

I think I almost gauged my eyes out becuase of this response.

1) Saying that this country needs discipline is similar to saying "Russia needs bread", it's a very big stereotype. I love it how the greatest nation to ever grace this planet needs discipline, tells you something about humanity eh?

2) I am not understanding why you mean by "younger generation" if you are talking, for example, 10-20 year olds then I'd like for you to explain how you suppose we go about deserving such thing as "freedom". Just because I have yet to blow the living crap out of some guy, just becuase he has a different point of view on life, doesn't mean I do not deserve freedom, or a "good life".

3) You're absolutely correct, this country has used draft previously.. and there's a good reason why we stopped using the draft. You know, the Nazis used the draft as well..
 
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