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We need to understand, Kyiv is likely to be taken by Putin

It will be interesting to see how he will be "slowly reducing the anger of the people." From what I have heard, even Ukrainian Russians object to his effort.
China can get away with this sort of thing, because they have decades of an utterly dominant control of information brainwashing their 1.5 billion people, and can tell them almost anything, but Putin does not have that. While he controls 90% of media, and has 75% support for his invasion based on his propaganda, he can't begin to get the control needed for this.
 
can we not have a civil discussion? These are important things and need to be discussed.
You started with “naïve”.

Naïve is thinking China can/will provide Putin/Russia with whatever is needed to survive the civilized world’s righteous punishment for breaking the legitimate boundaries of an autonomous democracy,
 
We've had a lot of feel-good surprises, the huge heroism of Ukraine's resistance, Russian blunders and lack of success, the world's political unity against Putin - but unfortunately, none of it changes the likelihood that Putin can defeat Kyiv.

We're likely to see the news become just more and more filled with tragedy, barring some unexpected change in course by Putin.








It will likely be as you said, but I do not believe Putin will be able to hold the country.
 
The capital of Ukraine will be taken by the Russians.

Otherwise, the unhinged monster would lose so much face that he would be driven out of office.
 
I can't help but think of the little-remembered war foreshadowing World War II, in Spain, when a fascist dictator, Franco, fought democracy.

The world rallied to the cause of democracy against Franco. Great Americans who loved democracy went to Spain to fight for the democracy forces against Franco.

They were killed. The democracy forces were killed. Franco won, and Spain became a fascist dictatorship. The tragedy was breathtaking.

A work considered Picasso's most notable was made after the Nazis helped Franco by bombing a village in that war, a work hosted at the United Nations, about the tragedy. I can't help but think of that war as I see this one. Incredible Ukranian people likely to be murdered.

 
The capital of Ukraine will be taken by the Russians.

Otherwise, the unhinged monster would lose so much face that he would be driven out of office.
Taken. Not kept.
 
If Im Ukrain why am I losing my loved ones for a piece of land?

Maybe I'm not thinking this through but losing your kids for a land is not worth it.
 
If Im Ukrain why am I losing my loved ones for a piece of land?

Maybe I'm not thinking this through but losing your kids for a land is not worth it.
It is their home. Where is your home?
 
This is a world war and we have joined with our allies. We must win.

Which part is not Europe?
1. There is not a world war.

2. The parts that aren’t Europe aren’t Europe.
 
It will be interesting to see how he will be "slowly reducing the anger of the people." From what I have heard, even Ukrainian Russians object to his effort.
When I say reduce anger, I mean from a 10 on the anger scale down to an 8. I think saying the Russians object is probably part of the Ukrainian propaganda campaign. There has been a lot of that going on.
 
He doesn’t look physically well, I know he is only 69, the world leadership needs some younger blood, Zelensky (sp?) seems to be up to the task……

As for his bloat...
He's either a big closet drinker or doper and in liver or kidney failure, or he is hooked on steroids and that combined with paranoia is a recipe for disaster.
 
US. But I could careless. Im not losing my life if someone forces me out.
Leave tonight and tell me how you feel tomorrow. Don't forget your family.
 
We've had a lot of feel-good surprises, the huge heroism of Ukraine's resistance, Russian blunders and lack of success, the world's political unity against Putin - but unfortunately, none of it changes the likelihood that Putin can defeat Kyiv.

We're likely to see the news become just more and more filled with tragedy, barring some unexpected change in course by Putin.








I think it's likely it will fall. That doesnt mean it's over.

Putin prepared for economic sanctions...now we need to see if he prepared enough.

The Russian people are also being affected by economic sanctions...exports, higher prices, travel restrictions, tourism, sports, etc...they'll feel the pain too. And so far, it seems like they're more than happy to protest. IMO they have more power and motivation to do so these days moreso than in the past.

Can Putin fight abroad and strong arm his own people into submission?
 
I do not think that anything is going any differently than Putin planed. I will preface this with saying first that I am shocked what has happened. Now that the invasion has started, I have revisited the situation. Here is what I think will happen. Putin takes Kiev and most of the country except for most of the west. I do not think he plans on taking the west. Too much trouble. So, he takes the capital installs his puppet government. This is why he has not gone all out with his elite troops and equipment. He does not want to destroy Ukraine. He plans on slowly reducing the anger of the people. He does not expect acceptance by the people. He does not care frankly. His puppet government will recognize Crimea as being part of Russia. The Donbass will vote to be part of Russia and Russia will annex it. People in the west will riot and rebel but Putin will not care. He gets more territory, and the rest of Ukraine will be in chaos which will be just fine with Putin.
I agree with much of that.

The bold is what I'm questioning...do you have any ideas how? If the west doesnt remove sactions, Putin's going to be facing angry people at home.
 
Having an accurate understanding is a good thing because of that.

You know what would be hysterical? If Zelensky appeared on Ukraine national TV. Shirtless. For his messages to the people.

And then ask Putin to do the same. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
If Im Ukrain why am I losing my loved ones for a piece of land?

Maybe I'm not thinking this through but losing your kids for a land is not worth it.

Are you Ukrainian?

You dont sound American.
 
I agree with much of that.

The bold is what I'm questioning...do you have any ideas how? If the west doesnt remove sactions, Putin's going to be facing angry people at home.
Yes well he is not going to do anything to reduce anger. It will just be what happens over time. That said people are going to revolt there after the puppet government is installed so..... As far as people in Russia, yes a big part of the population is upset but another big part approves of the invasion. They are brainwashed. They have been feed Russian propaganda about Ukraine being governed by Nazis.
 
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Yes well he is not going to do anything to reduce anger. It will just be what happens over time. That said people are going to revolt there after the puet government is installed so..... As far as people in Russia, yes a big part of the population is upset but another big part approves of the invasion. They are brainwashed. They have been feed Russian propaganda about Ukraine being governed by Nazis.

I have to disagree that reduced anger is going to not make any difference in the longer term outcome. Esp. if we dont reduce sanctions. Ukrainians will not lose hope and so will continue to resist...and Russian people at home will make their economic 'pain' clear. Putin will have to deal with them.
 
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