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We have met the enemy,... and it is us

14%20Pogo%20Earth%20Day%201970%20A_0.jpeg


Don't shoot the messenger,... BUT not much has changed since the first earth day poster (in 1970) illustrated an inconvenient truth about human nature!

Basically until people on the left and right side of the political spectrum realize that we ourselves are the enemy,... humanity will continue to die a slow painful death caused by a thousand cuts!

https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/earth-day-story-us

4x6-PC-the-simple-truth-about-protest-movements.png


Given human nature, few are brave enough to face head on a problem that is technically complicated,... thus has an uncertain future of deleterious effects,... which somehow will have to be mitigated w/ infrastructure that somehow has to be paid for (with a price tag that will impact everyones comfort and lifestyles).

Consider,... even if humanity in general was magically able to grasp the basic science of man made climate change (which is,... the combustion of various hydrocarbon fuels like: coal, methane, gasoline, diesel, etc.... creates CO2 a greenhouse gas that traps infrared energy the earth's atmosphere for a very long time),...

https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...th-agw-alarmism-today.462171/#post-1074733617

...the human nature problem is,… looking at what is creating the excess CO2 (that the planet cannot absorb) we see it's the so called "american dream" (i.e. a fancy house w/ all kinds of creature comforts, an SUV for personal transportation, copious daily amounts of animal protein at every meal AND an annual vacation in an exotic location - which requires an airline flight)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160224132923.htm

Point being aspirational personal consumption expectations are ingrained in consumers (not just in the USA but also all around the world),... so it is and continues to be an uphill battle to educate people about the big picture science (which is the first step toward solving the problem).

www.ThereIsNoPlanet-B.org

Said another way,... "simplistic" one dimensional solutions,... like the idea that, getting rid of capitalism is going to "magically" solve the problem of climate change,... won't change change a thing (AND only digs the hole we are in deeper).

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/09/solving-the-climate-requires-the-end-of-capitalism/

Fact is the capitalistic system which allows incentives for people,... will be needed to develop and build public infrastructure to adapt and correct for man made climate change.

Consider the alternative,... a system lacking economic incentives for people,... IOW cuba, venezuela, and the former USSR,... seems these economic/political systems are in greater turmoil than capitalistic systems (i.e. the USA, western europe, japan and "capitalistic" china),... bottom line if there are no economic incentives to address man made climate, what is going to nudge people to develop goods and services to fix the issue???
 
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Integrityrespec

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So all I hear is CO2. Then I hear that the US already has stricter regulations than the Paris Accord agreement and it's members, and that Russia, China and India don't do a thing to help with CO2 and will not until at least 2030 according to the Paris Accord agreement. Also, what we do in the US will have no measurable effect on the environment as long as those 3 nations do nothing. So why are we hurting the USA for these other nations who don't do a thing. Sounds like we are just being played.
 

Germinator

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So all I hear is CO2. Then I hear that the US already has stricter regulations than the Paris Accord agreement and it's members, and that Russia, China and India don't do a thing to help with CO2 and will not until at least 2030 according to the Paris Accord agreement. Also, what we do in the US will have no measurable effect on the environment as long as those 3 nations do nothing. So why are we hurting the USA for these other nations who don't do a thing. Sounds like we are just being played.

There is lots of truth, that "we" the American public is being played!

Looking at climate change from a scientist point of view,... I know there are uncertainties w/ scientific models.

Simple truth is, climate science is a very complex issue AND models (as good as they are) will never be exact since there are many degrees of freedom (IOW lots of things that can change, which is why short term weather forecasts as good as they are,... will never be exact).

Having said that,... long term climate models actually can be more exact (in their ballpark "figures"),... this is because the only two variables that really count are CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere (since CO2 is a green house gas that traps infrared energy) and the relative long term orbit of the planet earth (basically when the earth's orbit is further away from the sun for long periods of time, the earth goes through an ice age).

At the present moment the earth is slowly drifting away from the sun (so we expect the plant to be slowly cooling off),... BUT something just happened that climate scientists found shocking,... there was rain on top of a mountain of ice, in the arctic region.

The reason "rain fall" is shocking is because the arctic region has been frozen since the time of christ AND as I just mentioned science indicates the earth is slowly drifting away from the sun,... so we should expect the earth's average temperature to slowly be decreasing.

Bottom line,.... "rain fall" on top of a mountain of ice in the arctic region is a big clue that that increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, is warming up the planet.

As a kid went to catholic schools before going to university to study physics,... anyway as I see things, rain in the arctic on top of a mountain of ice should be akin to an "snowball's chance in hell"

BUT looking at the basic science,... starting around the "industrial revolution" we see humanity has put gigatons of measurable CO2 into the earths atmosphere (by burning various fossil fuels like: coal, methane, gasoline, diesel, etc.)

NOTE the amount of CO2 placed in the atmosphere is so large that scientists use the "gigaton" measurement (i.e. 1 "gigaton" is the weight of one cubic km of water)

4x6-PC-01-combustion-reaction-CO2-diffusion.png


4x6-PC-02-keeling-curve-june-2021.png


4x6-PC-rain-at-SUMMIT-STATION-a-snowball-s-chance-in-hell.png


Basically the one's playing the American public are,... various special interests that want to keep on selling consumers AND voters, on the idea that burning fossil fuels do no harm long term harm.

Think about it,... if the fossil fuel industry AND elected political leadership told the American public the truth that it is not a matter of "if" but "when" there will be global problems like flooding,... the American public would demand changes be made.

FYI figure the illustrations helps get the point across that looking at the existing trends,... humanity is going to face a crisis of biblical proportions (the only question is "WHEN" not "IF").

Said another way if the fossil fuel industry AND elected political leadership tell the American public "comfortable lies,..." then the fossil fuel industry AND elected political leadership, get to keep on milking the system a while longer (i.e. padding their wallets).

Politicians on both sides of the political aisle are more or less the same,... this is because "scientifically" talentless idiots on the left distract their zealot like minded supporters w/ issues like: BLM, critical race theory, gay rights, etc.,etc., etc.

Meanwhile "scientifically" talentless idiots on the right distract their zealot like minded supporters w/ issues like: abortion right to life issues, foreign immigration, 2nd amendment concerns, etc.,etc., etc.

The honest truth is, the fossil fuel industry AND elected political leadership (from all over the world) are playing a game of chicken,... they are hoping someone else acknowledges the problems AND acts first,... because until that happens "scientifically" talentless idiots in political positions of power get to keep on milking the system (meanwhile the first ones to get hurt are the little guys).
 
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Fabiusbile

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and that Russia, China and India don't do a thing to help with
And they won't do anything. These three countries (I am a resident of one of them) regard the "green fight" against CO2 as a tool to contain their economy.
You have the means and a developed economy to play ecology, your population is financially better off, whereas Russia, China and India are at a completely different level and to damage their industry and energy is primarily to hit the pocket of the population.
If you are so concerned about the environment, then subsidize the financial losses to Russia, India and China. No, don't you agree? But then I'm sorry, to strangle their poor population leaving these countries without industry disagree. Take offense, do whatever you want.
 

Germinator

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And they won't do anything. These three countries (I am a resident of one of them) regard the "green fight" against CO2 as a tool to contain their economy.
You have the means and a developed economy to play ecology, your population is financially better off, whereas Russia, China and India are at a completely different level and to damage their industry and energy is primarily to hit the pocket of the population.

If you are so concerned about the environment, then subsidize the financial losses to Russia, India and China. No, don't you agree? But then I'm sorry, to strangle their poor population leaving these countries without industry disagree. Take offense, do whatever you want.


Not everyone in the USA is "financially better off" which is one reason there is an ever widening social division between well off "social justice warriors" who are associated w/ the Democratic Party AND "bible thumpers" who are associated w/ the Republican Party.

BUT as I tried to point out in the OP the one thing people have in common (i.e. rich or poor, no matter if a citizen of the USA, Russia, India, China, etc.) is,... the god people worship is money (along w/ wanting the "American Dream" lifestyle),... which has consequences.

People all over the world worship money along w/ lusting after the "American Dream" lifestyle because The advertising industry is fuelling climate disaster, and it’s getting away with it

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ndustry-fuelling-climate-disaster-consumption

AND seems there is no difference between the message from The advertising industry and Televangelists (both are essentially telling people to worship at the alter of money and live an unsustainable "lifestyle")




The simple truth is,... too few actually understand "science" and "religion"

What I consider is relevant religious teachings is from St Thomas Aquinas who basically said, "temptation which comes from the enemy takes the form of a suggestion"

https://www.newadvent.org/summa/4041.htm

Long story short,... looking at the issue of climate change (from a religious point of view) we see,... useful idiots are doing the work of the devil!


TRUMP-A-Very-Stable-Genius-who-is-being-influenced-by-the-devil.png



political-prosperity-gospel-believers.png



As for the consequences of worshiping at the alter of money and living an unsustainable lifestyle,...as large as the Earth is (which seems to be infinite to most people),... science indicates things do not have a happy ending (basically populations crash).


4x6-PC-Calhoun-s-mouse-utopia-akin-to-a-geophysical-experiment.png



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Island

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink#Experiments
 
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Phys251

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14%20Pogo%20Earth%20Day%201970%20A_0.jpeg


Don't shoot the messenger,... BUT not much has changed since the first earth day poster (in 1970) illustrated an inconvenient truth about human nature!

Basically until people on the left and right side of the political spectrum realize that we ourselves are the enemy,... humanity will continue to die a slow painful death caused by a thousand cuts!

https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/earth-day-story-us

4x6-PC-the-simple-truth-about-protest-movements.png


Given human nature, few are brave enough to face head on a problem that is technically complicated,... thus has an uncertain future of deleterious effects,... which somehow will have to be mitigated w/ infrastructure that somehow has to be paid for (with a price tag that will impact everyones comfort and lifestyles).

Consider,... even if humanity in general was magically able to grasp the basic science of man made climate change (which is,... the combustion of various hydrocarbon fuels like: coal, methane, gasoline, diesel, etc.... creates CO2 a greenhouse gas that traps infrared energy the earth's atmosphere for a very long time),...

https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...th-agw-alarmism-today.462171/#post-1074733617

...the human nature problem is,… looking at what is creating the excess CO2 (that the planet cannot absorb) we see it's the so called "american dream" (i.e. a fancy house w/ all kinds of creature comforts, an SUV for personal transportation, copious daily amounts of animal protein at every meal AND an annual vacation in an exotic location - which requires an airline flight)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160224132923.htm

Point being aspirational personal consumption expectations are ingrained in consumers (not just in the USA but also all around the world),... so it is and continues to be an uphill battle to educate people about the big picture science (which is the first step toward solving the problem).

www.ThereIsNoPlanet-B.org

Said another way,... "simplistic" one dimensional solutions,... like the idea that, getting rid of capitalism is going to "magically" solve the problem of climate change,... won't change change a thing (AND only digs the hole we are in deeper).

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/09/solving-the-climate-requires-the-end-of-capitalism/

Fact is the capitalistic system which allows incentives for people,... will be needed to develop and build public infrastructure to adapt and correct for man made climate change.

Consider the alternative,... a system lacking economic incentives for people,... IOW cuba, venezuela, and the former USSR,... seems these economic/political systems are in greater turmoil than capitalistic systems (i.e. the USA, western europe, japan and "capitalistic" china),... bottom line if there are no economic incentives to address man made climate, what is going to nudge people to develop goods and services to fix the issue???

You are dead right about the science of climate change and dead wrong about the need to cancel every other social issue on the planet.

This is not either-or. This is both-and. All fights matter.
 

Germinator

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You are dead right about the science of climate change and dead wrong about the need to cancel every other social issue on the planet.

This is not either-or. This is both-and. All fights matter.

because art is subjective, an art piece sometimes has a an "artist statement"

www.gyst-ink.com/artist-statement-guidelines

so FWIW,... there was a published-paper that was based on a survey done in my home town that indicated that essentially no one in the public at large was able to explain what causes climate change

thinking at first the published paper findings were a fluke, actually conducted my own informal survey at a startup conference and at a SD350.org "meetup" (assuming a group of tech savvy people AND an environmental activist group would be more likely to know of the basic science of climate change),... what I actually accomplished is,... confirmed that the public at large is basically scientifically illiterate

one good did result from my informal survey experience, to try and make the science (of man made climate change accessible),... took ideas I learned about a "startup" pitch deck and posted them on GoogleDocs (as a "linkable" PDF)

www.ThereIsNoPlanet-B.org

figure now that I have a pitch-deck (that story-boards the basic actual climate change "science"),... I'm kinda working on is making it into an open source "Eliza" like chat bot, to teach climate science


chat bot idea aside,... since graphic images (like a Feynman diagram) can impart lots of information and convey a message AND since I'm a comic fan,... during my covid "time off" sabbatical, started playing around w/ graphics software to create a mashup images trying to get people to think about an issue or an idea in a different way (for example)

4x6-PC-the-simple-truth-about-protest-movements.png

this pays homage to the first earth day poster and tries to show that humanity is pretty faddish, easily distracted and does not stick around to get the job done

...basically what I am trying to indicate is what I noticed walking to an earth day event here in San Diego


since I live right by Balboa park, was walked over to the event years ago and noticed was walking much faster than a long line of SUVs (actually it was like the opening scene from "office space")


fast forward a couple of years,... given covid and the BLM protest during the lockdown,... was walked my dog (as usual on a daily basis) and since one of the BLM events was where I usually walk on a daily basis,... noticed again I was actually walking faster than a long line of BLM protesters in SUVs


AND the irony does not stop there,... since there, is a "yuge" gay community here in San Diego w/ an annual pride parade what I find humorous is after the march I notice there is lots of trash that has to be picked up in that park after the event


Basically the mashup "art work" is suppose to illustrate pride and interest of the general public on the day of a public rally (for whatever cause),... then then next day its back to being the community of people being basically "indifferent" (...and then there is the trash left over that is left for someone else to clean up after the social signaling protest/public-march-event)

[sarcasm ON using comedic voice]

...what the phuck is up with organized "pride" events one day a year?

does this mean the group feels "shame" the other 364 days of the year??



[sarcasm OFF]

the inclusion of the pogo character is suppose to show that sadly seems like not changed (or has been learned by mankind) since the first earth day teach-in


the "amazon box" box was included to show we live in a throwaway "fad" driven culture that has high environmental costs


bottom line,... the image isn't about "the need to cancel every other social issue on the planet"

...it's suppose to indicate that people in general are only interested in the social issue aspect of a political movement,... and not the actual hard fixing/cleaning up process

said another way,... people don't stick around to do the hard work to fix a mess they them selves create

capeesh?!
 

Phys251

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because art is subjective, an art piece sometimes has a an "artist statement"

www.gyst-ink.com/artist-statement-guidelines

so FWIW,... there was a published-paper that was based on a survey done in my home town that indicated that essentially no one in the public at large was able to explain what causes climate change

thinking at first the published paper findings were a fluke, actually conducted my own informal survey at a startup conference and at a SD350.org "meetup" (assuming a group of tech savvy people AND an environmental activist group would be more likely to know of the basic science of climate change),... what I actually accomplished is,... confirmed that the public at large is basically scientifically illiterate

one good did result from my informal survey experience, to try and make the science (of man made climate change accessible),... took ideas I learned about a "startup" pitch deck and posted them on GoogleDocs (as a "linkable" PDF)

www.ThereIsNoPlanet-B.org

figure now that I have a pitch-deck (that story-boards the basic actual climate change "science"),... I'm kinda working on is making it into an open source "Eliza" like chat bot, to teach climate science


chat bot idea aside,... since graphic images (like a Feynman diagram) can impart lots of information and convey a message AND since I'm a comic fan,... during my covid "time off" sabbatical, started playing around w/ graphics software to create a mashup images trying to get people to think about an issue or an idea in a different way (for example)

4x6-PC-the-simple-truth-about-protest-movements.png

this pays homage to the first earth day poster and tries to show that humanity is pretty faddish, easily distracted and does not stick around to get the job done

...basically what I am trying to indicate is what I noticed walking to an earth day event here in San Diego


since I live right by Balboa park, was walked over to the event years ago and noticed was walking much faster than a long line of SUVs (actually it was like the opening scene from "office space")


fast forward a couple of years,... given covid and the BLM protest during the lockdown,... was walked my dog (as usual on a daily basis) and since one of the BLM events was where I usually walk on a daily basis,... noticed again I was actually walking faster than a long line of BLM protesters in SUVs


AND the irony does not stop there,... since there, is a "yuge" gay community here in San Diego w/ an annual pride parade what I find humorous is after the march I notice there is lots of trash that has to be picked up in that park after the event


Basically the mashup "art work" is suppose to illustrate pride and interest of the general public on the day of a public rally (for whatever cause),... then then next day its back to being the community of people being basically "indifferent" (...and then there is the trash left over that is left for someone else to clean up after the social signaling protest/public-march-event)

[sarcasm ON using comedic voice]

...what the phuck is up with organized "pride" events one day a year?

does this mean the group feels "shame" the other 364 days of the year??



[sarcasm OFF]

the inclusion of the pogo character is suppose to show that sadly seems like not changed (or has been learned by mankind) since the first earth day teach-in


the "amazon box" box was included to show we live in a throwaway "fad" driven culture that has high environmental costs


bottom line,... the image isn't about "the need to cancel every other social issue on the planet"

...it's suppose to indicate that people in general are only interested in the social issue aspect of a political movement,... and not the actual hard fixing/cleaning up process

said another way,... people don't stick around to do the hard work to fix a mess they them selves create

capeesh?!

You didn't properly address my point.
 

Germinator

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You didn't properly address my point.

sigh,...

You are dead right about the science of climate change and dead wrong about the need to cancel every other social issue on the planet.

This is not either-or. This is both-and. All fights matter.

let's me try this again,... as I tried to point out,... the image isn't about "the need to cancel every other social issue on the planet"

4x6-PC-the-simple-truth-about-protest-movements.png


the idea I was trying to point out is humanity (in general) has transitory interests,... IOW one day the fashion fad is "earth day" the next day it might be a BLM protest or a "pride" march

point being people show up for an event to be social and signal they approve or disapprove, BUT after the march or protest,... people basically walk away AND don't stick around to help clean up the mess,...nor do they stick around and take the time to try and understand the issue,... instead people just keep on walking through life, very oblivious to their surroundings

just sayin I have a propensity to heighten situational awareness as a trained pilot (and a guy with a formal university physics degree),... guess it is because it was drilled into me (by various flight instructors) that the OODA loop is something that will dramatically increase my odds of becoming an"old pilot"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop

point being unlike most people who walk through life oblivious to their surroundings,... as I see things, the only social issue that directly can "cancel" humanity as a whole, is society not being able to adapt to man made changing climate

4x6-PC-DENIERS-too-busy-to-notice.png


looking back through history I see a pattern that the final straw that decimates an organized society is "drought" (i.e. climate change) that directly limits food production,... actually the aviation sector is pretty accident free because of awareness of the OODA Loop and "error chain" analysis (which makes those involved in the aero-space sector acutely aware of safety first)

https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/2000s/media/0524.pdf

unfortunately "social justice warriors" on the left hand side of the political spectrum AND "religious bible thumpers" on the right hand side of the political spectrum,....don't seem to be able to grasp the big picture and only seem to be concerned about canceling out their political opponents
 
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Phys251

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sigh,...



let's me try this again,... as I tried to point out,... the image isn't about "the need to cancel every other social issue on the planet"

Except that's exactly what you did. As just one example, in the last line of your post, you equated "social justice warriors" and "religious bible thumpers" as if they were equally naive or ignorant:

unfortunately "social justice warriors" on the left hand side of the political spectrum AND "religious bible thumpers" on the right hand side of the political spectrum,....don't seem to be able to grasp the big picture and only seem to be concerned about canceling out their political opponents

The kindest thing I can say in return is that you are under the delusion that there is a finite amount of resource that can be divvied up to social causes. You see environmentalism as the number one cause--a defensible position--and then demand that literally every other cause take a back seat--an indefensible position.

Issues overlap. Environmentalism overlaps with economic justice, which overlaps with racial justice, and so on. It's a web of interconnected causes, not a hierarchy of them.
 
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