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"We didnt know" is just an excuse

IValueFreedom

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It does demand consistency... and he's consistently failed to act in a manor appropriate to his position.

The problem is that Americans view politics as teams. Republicans are one team and democrats are the other. It doesn't matter what the politicians do, it's if they're on your team. If your team is in power, it's good. If their team is in power, it's bad. With this, and the emotional attatchment with someone after voting for them, it prevents people from looking objectively at their leadership. That's no good.

Bush has not performed well as president in my opinion. Please don't look at him as a person with feelings (I know that sounds cold-hearted, but it's necessary) and instead view him as just a tool. He's a tool of the American populous to do what they want him to do. In this case, he didn't. It is competely reasonable to ask him to leave if he's not doing what you want him to do.
 

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IValueFreedom said:
It does demand consistency... and he's consistently failed to act in a manor appropriate to his position.

The problem is that Americans view politics as teams. Republicans are one team and democrats are the other. It doesn't matter what the politicians do, it's if they're on your team. If your team is in power, it's good. If their team is in power, it's bad. With this, and the emotional attatchment with someone after voting for them, it prevents people from looking objectively at their leadership. That's no good.

Bush has not performed well as president in my opinion. Please don't look at him as a person with feelings (I know that sounds cold-hearted, but it's necessary) and instead view him as just a tool. He's a tool of the American populous to do what they want him to do. In this case, he didn't. It is competely reasonable to ask him to leave if he's not doing what you want him to do.

It doesn't bother you in the slightest that as the days go by, more and more is being revealed on the state and the long existing federal system, vice the blame of one man?
 

Timequake

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IValueFreedom said:
you make it sound like demanding his resignation isn't a logical thing to do.

If a CEO of a Fortune 500 company came up short for the stockholders, do you think him saying sorry would make the stockholders happy? No.

He would have to defend himself for his job. It isn't that complicated.

Governments are servants of the people.
Heads of governments are servants of the people.
If you fail to perform your assigned duties as a government figure, there is no innate right for you to continue to possess your job.

No, I don't think that IF this was his one major mistake in his presidency, that he should be fired, but since in my opinion, he's running a horrible track record, yeah, I would be happy to see him resign from office.

He is the President!! The President doesn't resign after being ill prepared for a natural disaster! The President resigns when he is involved in something like Watergate
 

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Timequake said:
He is the President!! The President doesn't resign after being ill prepared for a natural disaster! The President resigns when he is involved in something like Watergate


Or getting caught committing perjury on camera....oh wait...that was ok.
 

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Hah! Yeah... good ole Bill...
 

MSgt

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Here is some more insight.....

The meetings have gone from react mode to lessons learned for the SECDEF.

1) The military has a regionalization chart within the U.S. that details everyone's AOR (area of responsibility) for an immediate defense from attack. We have discovered that there is no regionalization for natural disasters at any level. There is need for a seperate regionalization chart because of the equipment that would be needed for the difference in missions.
Without this chart, the Active military could not react as fast as we could have, because there was no central command set up for New Orleans on the FEMA side. They too had no regionalization chart. They work as one organization. Without a chart of regionalization, there is no responsibility declared.

2) In the event of an attack or natural disaster...federal agencies, civilian contractors, and military members come together and form a CMOC (Civil Military Operations Center). This group would organize efforts at the highest level. Since the creation of "Homland Security" (still a good idea), many organizations, including FEMA, has fallen under one under budgeted roof. From this merger, responsibilities have been greyed. As of today, the Marine Corps is not aware of any CMOC being established and in the beginning there was no FEMA representative designated to talk to us. Who were all of these Active Duty Troops and equipment reporting to? Who in FEMA was talking to the state? The guidance and instruction was not so much a problem as was which individuals had certain responsibilities.

3) Post 9/11, many organizations shifted from natural disaster reaction to focusing on terror reaction. CBIRF (Chemical Biological Incidental React Force), a Marine unit, has getten involved with Katrina, however their focus is terror against the national capitol. Many organizations are set up to imply terror reaction only, so the rush to react was hesitant. The natural reaction is that "someone somewhere else is reacting".

4) Like I said before, the biggest problem here was the Chain of Command and Control. Established laws were also restricting any Federal action. The Federal Government cannot invade a state without an invite. This is law. This is the same law that protects our "civil liberties" and "freedoms." It's this kind of law that people are embracing when they refer to the intrusions of the Patriot Act. FEMA is a part of the Federal Government.

These 4 points, among many others, will be submitted through HQMC to the SECDEF. Do any of the real reasons that helped to create such a big problem matter to some of you, or does blaming Bush still satisfy your needs?
 

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MiamiFlorida said:
You are sooooo right.

Bush is supposed to have an implant in his brain that records the weaknesses and calculates probabilities of major natural disasters that can befall every neighborhhod, village, town and city in this country. He must also convince Congress to appropriate the funds to make sure every community is well prepared.

Just one question: Then why do we need Governors, Senators, Congressmen, Mayors, Concilmen, etc....?
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Lets see! Gov. Blanco did the right thing by sending Bush a letter on 8-27-05 declaring Louisiana a state of emergency. Bush stayed at his ranch on vacation for a few days until he recieved some pressure then went back to Washington losing valuable time to send help to Louisiana.
I mean, the whole WORLD knew that Katrina may flood New Orleans to the point of destroying the whole city. Well, I mean every one but BUSH knew!

There is NO state or local Gov that is prepared for any such disaster like this one. Fact is that Louisiana had 4,000 National guards and it is taking 14,000 + Guards weeks and maybe months to get things to 1/50th of normality.
Thats when Uncle Bush has to step in, which he did but too late.

"The Mayor, Gov AND Bush all screwed up BIG TIME!" But when the local Gov screws up or cannot handle the situation, the States take over and when the State Gov screws up or cannot handle the situation, the Fed Gov takes over which usually happens exept in this case.

Just immagine if we had been nuked where MILLIONS of Americans were in trouble! Just who is supposed to help? The local Gov that got hit that would be NON EXISTENT? What if the Governor got killed in the Nuke OR hurricane and could NOT send out a letter declaring a State of Emergency? Would that mean that our Fed Gov would never send help?

Yes they are all to blame and these problems need to be addressed "PRONTO" by ALL levels of our Gov.

Forget "Homeland Security", they are only run by friends of politicans that do not have a clue to what their job is and have no idea what they are supposed to do except perhaps raising and dropping "COLOR CHARTS"!

I wrote my local, State and Fed politicans asking what preperations they have for such disasters. If you are interested enough you too should do the same.

And as far as Blanco and Bush owning up to their screw up, that doesn't mean anything to me! It does NOT change the screw up or make it any better. I don't believe in saying "I commend them for doing the right thing by owning up to their screw up", they should be held accountable for their screw ups just like anyone else!
 
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wrath

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taxpayer said:
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Lets see! Gov. Blanco did the right thing by sending Bush a letter on 8-27-05 declaring Louisiana a state of emergency. Bush stayed at his ranch on vacation for a few days until he recieved some pressure then went back to Washington losing valuable time to send help to Louisiana.
I mean, the whole WORLD knew that Katrina may flood New Orleans to the point of destroying the whole city. Well, I mean every one but BUSH knew!

There is NO state or local Gov that is prepared for any such disaster like this one. Fact is that Louisiana had 4,000 National guards and it is taking 14,000 + Guards weeks and maybe months to get things to 1/50th of normality.
Thats when Uncle Bush has to step in, which he did but too late.

"The Mayor, Gov AND Bush all screwed up BIG TIME!" But when the local Gov screws up or cannot handle the situation, the States take over and when the State Gov screws up or cannot handle the situation, the Fed Gov takes over which usually happens exept in this case.

Just immagine if we had been nuked where MILLIONS of Americans were in trouble! Just who is supposed to help? The local Gov that got hit that would be NON EXISTENT? What if the Governor got killed in the Nuke OR hurricane and could NOT send out a letter declaring a State of Emergency? Would that mean that our Fed Gov would never send help?

Yes they are all to blame and these problems need to be addressed "PRONTO" by ALL levels of our Gov.

Forget "Homeland Security", they are only run by friends of politicans that do not have a clue to what their job is and have no idea what they are supposed to do except perhaps raising and dropping "COLOR CHARTS"!

I wrote my local, State and Fed politicans asking what preperations they have for such disasters. If you are interested enough you too should do the same.

And as far as Blanco and Bush owning up to their screw up, that doesn't mean anything to me! It does NOT change the screw up or make it any better. I don't believe in saying "I commend them for doing the right thing by owning up to their screw up", they should be held accountable for their screw ups just like anyone else!

Why write local, state and fed politicans when New Orleans officials had a comprehensive emergency management plan already!
EVER READ IT?!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1478607/posts

It's almost amusing to me how so many avoid this document like the plague. Had it been followed during the 48 hours they had before the storm made landfall, much could have been avoided.
 

Stinger

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taxpayer said:
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Lets see! Gov. Blanco did the right thing by sending Bush a letter on 8-27-05 declaring Louisiana a state of emergency.

And what did she ask for in that letter in the way of assistence?


Bush stayed at his ranch on vacation for a few days until he recieved some pressure then went back to Washington losing valuable time to send help to Louisiana.

Bush stayed at his home, where he was continuing to work, which is closer that had he been in Washington. What is your point, he could do everything at his home in Texas that he could do in Washington.

I mean, the whole WORLD knew that Katrina may flood New Orleans to the point of destroying the whole city. Well, I mean every one but BUSH knew!

Then why was he on the phone to Blanco and Nagin pleading with them to evacuate?

There is NO state or local Gov that is prepared for any such disaster like this one.

By that same measure there is no country perpared for any such disater like this one.

Fact is that Louisiana had 4,000 National guards and it is taking 14,000 + Guards weeks and maybe months to get things to 1/50th of normality.

Yes that is why govenors asked other states to send troops in and request FEMA to send help in, both of which Blanco failed to do until days afterwards.

Thats when Uncle Bush has to step in, which he did but too late.

Only after the governor ask, it was offered and she turned it down.


"The Mayor, Gov AND Bush all screwed up BIG TIME!" But when the local Gov screws up or cannot handle the situation, the States take over and when the State Gov screws up or cannot handle the situation, the Fed Gov takes over which usually happens exept in this case.

And exactly when was this suppose to happen. Katrina hit on Monday but everything was OK, New Orleans was spared. The flooding didn't begin until that night and the full extent wasn't known until Tuesday morning. It was still in the govenors hands and she turned down having it turned over to Bush and the Federal government. FEMA began moving that morning, the Coast Guard was already rescuing people that morning.

Just immagine if we had been nuked where MILLIONS of Americans were in trouble! Just who is supposed to help? The local Gov that got hit that would be NON EXISTENT?

Why imagine that when that was not the case here?

What if the Governor got killed in the Nuke OR hurricane and could NOT send out a letter declaring a State of Emergency?

Why imagine that when that was not the case here?

Would that mean that our Fed Gov would never send help?

Our government sent help in this case. The state and locals WERE in existence and they are the first responders. The LAW prevents the Federal government from stepping in unless the Insurrection Act is called in. Now Bush and his cabinet considered doing that but then had he done so you would be here screaming he went over the constitution and that he had no right to do so.


Forget "Homeland Security", they are only run by friends of politicans that do not have a clue to what their job is and have no idea what they are supposed to do except perhaps raising and dropping "COLOR CHARTS"!

So let's see you think the Fed's should take over in such a disaster but you want to get rid of the Fed's who would take over. What folly.

I wrote my local, State and Fed politicans asking what preperations they have for such disasters. If you are interested enough you too should do the same.

I go through hurricane's, including this one, quite regularly. I know what they are and they don't depend on the Fed coming in the next day to save everyone. The state and locals have that responsibility.


But tell me, what would have been a good response. Describe to me government working well in this disaster.
 

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The Bush hating left rushed in over their heads on this one. I've been saying this since day one. I may have an unfair advantage on the situation, but common sense should go a long way for anybody.
 
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