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Was Your Lifesaver's Life Just Saved?

Questerr said:
My response would be to maintain protections for women’s bodily autonomy rather than having the state seize de facto ownership of them.
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That is a silly way to word it.
Does the state have de facto ownership of my brain because it tells it how to behave through the laws on the books? Laws are based on maintaining order but their true foundation is compassion.
 
Candyman said:
If the track record of conservatives continues on the same path then the cons really don't give a shit what the baby's life becomes. They've made it pretty clear they don't want anything to do with the welfare of the baby once it's born.
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Sounds like you don't like Republicans because they believe in hard work and not freeloading. Didn't get the increase in government handouts you were expecting?
 
mrjurrs said:
Mother Nature doesn't like it when you lie about her processes to make a political point. "But one thing we can't debate is that a sperm joining with an egg is a future life."
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And how would you debate that statement?
 
Roger Duke said:
Some abortion clinics were forced to shut down immediately after yesterday's historic Supreme Court decision. Many of those women will simply go to a different state but not all. Months from now, babies will be born who wouldn't have otherwise.
Who will they become?
Will one be the brain surgeon who removes your tumor in 30 years?
Will one be the firefighter who pulls you from your burning car in 20 years?
Will one be the child who sees you are about to get struck by a truck and warns you just in time?
We can debate all we want about when "life" begins and what "life" even is. But one thing we can't debate is that a sperm joining with an egg is a future life.......and each of those future lives has great potential.
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Or the murderer who kills me?

Or the politician that turns my country into a hellhole?

The guy who rapes my sister and she gets pregnant and has to carry his kid that gets parental rights?

Terrible narrative. I could literally go on all day.
 
Roger Duke said:
Here's another way of looking at it. Imagine you are talking to a woman 4 years in the future and she points to her beautiful child on the playground and says "I was going to abort her but the Supreme Court stopped it. I'm glad they did. She's the light of my life."
Would you tell her you were hoping she would have gotten aborted the day the clinics shut down? If not, would you think it?
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Nope. What about the successful woman with a happy family because she didn’t go through with the pregnancy at sixteen who is so glad she did?

In my cosmology they both learned the lessons they came here to learn. And the kids agreed as well. Both the living and the aborted.
 
mrjurrs said:
I'm not sure I buy that completely. Aren't pro-choice elected officials driven by ideology and haven't they been willing to provide funding streams?
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Hi again.

You caught me in a generality. Good catch. I try to avoid them, 'cause a single counter-example negates them. I kust had a bad word day, is all. ;-)

Regards, and best wishes to you and yours.
 
JMB802 said:
AKA, you can't dispute any of the facts in my comment so you choose to try to save face with a flounce.
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Whatever makes you feel better...
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Where'd you get this ^ idea from?
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Just made it up myself which means you will say it is stupid.
If I would have said Barack Obama you would have said it was brilliant.
Your response will be boring and predictable.
 
Personally, I damned well should have been aborted. I will never support any policy that usurps the authority over a woman's reproductive organs to anyone but that woman's next of kin or designated representative, I will never support any policy that gives the government authority over conceiving a child, gestating a child, keeping or adopting a child (or surrendering a child for adoption) or raising a child outside of documented criminal abuse...

... but if ever I supported such a policy, my parents should have been denied that license, forcibly sterilized, executed, and buried at different crossroads with garlic in their mouths. I had a sister once, and she was nominally more functional than I am, which only made her more dangerous; I weep for her sons, the nephews that my own life and liberty cost me.

I mean... frankly, any argument about whether a child should or shouldn't have been aborted is ****ing horrifying. We can't know if a child is going to grow up to be a hero or a monster when they're born; in very rare cases, we can tell when a child is never going to amount to nothing, and... that's a different argument. We can't tell any of that at birth. And even if we could... that's not our ****ing choice to make. It is explicitly not our choice to make, and every time we've allowed some well-meaning authoritarian scum to make it their choice has been a crime against humanity and the author of many smaller atrocities.

We can ignore some red flags about Alois and Klara Hitler, and make little Baby Adolf look like the poster child for State-approved wholesome family reproduction. We can make up some filthy lies about Maria Magdalena van Beethoven, to trap some wide-eyed totally-not-eugenicist liberals into admitting they would have aborted Beethoven. But even if we... relied on factual historical accounts, fact of the matter is we're cherry-picking our data based on what we know decades after their deaths; nobody could have known and nobody could have predicted who was going to be Fred Rogers and who was going to be Jeffrey Dahmer.

The State needs to keep its filthy goddamned fingers out of our wombs, out of our beds, and out of our homes. And if it doesn't want to do this, it needs to lose its ****ing fingers until it does want to keep them where they belong.
 
Roger Duke said:
You do realize it is impossible to know what fetus is going to commit a crime in 18 years, don't you?
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Are you familiar with the field of statistics?

Example: standing in the middle of a busy highway is correlated with a statistically significant higher risk of getting hit by a car.

But can you predict which particular individual standing in the middle of a busy highway are going to get hit by a car? Of course not. But does that mean we can tell lots people they can go stand in the middle of the busy highway because we really can’t tell if they individually will be hit?

Similarly, unwanted babies are statistically correlated with higher crime.
 
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Roger Duke said:
Some abortion clinics were forced to shut down immediately after yesterday's historic Supreme Court decision. Many of those women will simply go to a different state but not all. Months from now, babies will be born who wouldn't have otherwise.
Who will they become?
Will one be the brain surgeon who removes your tumor in 30 years?
Will one be the firefighter who pulls you from your burning car in 20 years?
Will one be the child who sees you are about to get struck by a truck and warns you just in time?
We can debate all we want about when "life" begins and what "life" even is. But one thing we can't debate is that a sperm joining with an egg is a future life.......and each of those future lives has great potential.
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Funeral directors and grave diggers taking advantage of the new opportunities you are patting yourselves on your backs for creating.

“Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?” (25:44). Jesus replies, “I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me” (25:45)."

At the same time women's health services are being driven from states already short of them as a result of indifference, refusal in 12 G.O.P,
states to expand medicaid, violence and threats against now disappearing providers such as Planned Parenthood, lack of interest in Ob-Gyn
practice in such states already short on these providers, shut down of training of Ob-Gyn because of challenges legislated and risks of legal
entanglement.

No one needs the bullshit your ignorant, misguided, religious influenced politics brings down upon care providers of women of child bearing age.
Add a lack of mental health providers and the consequences of your choosing your concern for fetuses over residents with uteruses, legal
recognition as people and the right to vote, and the poorest, youngest females will reap what you have sown. My hope is the smartest ones
who succeed in escaping your jurisdictions in pursuit of their right to safe, clinical abortion will recognize they have no home to return to.
Your voting has determined the future of your G.O.P. controlled states, already the poorest and offering the least career opportunity and access
to professional services.
 
Roger Duke said:
Some abortion clinics were forced to shut down immediately after yesterday's historic Supreme Court decision. Many of those women will simply go to a different state but not all. Months from now, babies will be born who wouldn't have otherwise.
Who will they become?
Will one be the brain surgeon who removes your tumor in 30 years?
Will one be the firefighter who pulls you from your burning car in 20 years?
Will one be the child who sees you are about to get struck by a truck and warns you just in time?
We can debate all we want about when "life" begins and what "life" even is. But one thing we can't debate is that a sperm joining with an egg is a future life.......and each of those future lives has great potential.
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Delusional, especially in 2022. Corrections officers make about 60% as much in G.O.P. controlled states as in other states but offer
at least twice as many "job opportunities" compared to low incarceration rate states.

Professionals avoided your G.O.P. controlled jurisdictions before you made them intolerable.

Don't you have any awareness of the implications of your anti women political positions, any at all?

Health Disparities in Rural Women ​

www.acog.org

"Obstetric-Gynecologic Workforce in Rural Areas. In 2008, only 6.4% of obstetrician-gynecologists practiced in rural settings. By 2010, 49% of the 3,143 U.S. counties (home to 10.1 million women or 8.2% of all women), lacked an obstetrician-gynecologist."

https://www.chiefhealthcareexecutive.com › view › after-supreme-court-upends-roe-v-wade-medical-colleges-weigh-impact-on-training-doctors

After Supreme Court upends Roe v. Wade, medical colleges weigh impact ...​

3 days ago "After Supreme Court upends Roe v. Wade, medical colleges weigh impact on training doctors. June 24, 2022. Ron Southwick. The high court's ruling leaves abortion access in the hands of the states. Almost half the nation's obstetrics and gynecology residency programs are in states that are expected to ban abortion."

This is the identical, white RWE reaction of selfish indifference to the disproportionate health risk to poor and minority residents from covid-19!

Opinion | The ‘Open Secret’ on Getting a Safe Abortion Before Roe v. Wade​

Psychiatrists were once arbiters of abortion access. Will they resume that role post-Roe?
www.nytimes.com
June 4, 2022
"...there are 76 percent more psychologists or psychiatrists per capita in blue states than in red states. Roughly 60 percent of counties in the United States — including 80 percent of rural counties — do not have a single psychiatrist practicing there, based on a 2017 report. Most of us are in the Northeast and some counties along the West Coast...."

https://vakids.org › our-news › blog › build-back-better-improving-maternal-infant-health-disparities

Build Back Better: Improving Maternal & Infant Health Disparities ...​

Dec 17, 2021 The United States of America has the highest maternal mortality rates in the developed world. Black women are more than three times as likely to die from pregnancy related complications than White women and Indigenous women are more than twice as likely, ... Build Back Better (BBB) includes a historic investment of $3 billion dollars in ...
 
ataraxia said:
Similarly, unwanted babies are statistically correlated with higher crime.
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This is basically true, but using eugenics as an argument in favor of human rights is a really bad look. A century ago, most of the people you're saying would benefit all of us by exercising their reproductive rights would have been subject to forced abortions and forced sterilizations-- which, no matter how passionate I am about this issue, are far greater abuses of human rights than what the GOP's Stolen Court just put back on the table.

The State of California was forced to pay reparations last year to women it had forcibly sterilized this century.

It should be enough that reproductive rights are a human rights issue, but Republicans are defined by their selective approach to human rights. They always compare being denied the atrocities they want to commit as being oppressed; let's not make it easier for them.
 
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Roger Duke said:
Here's another way of looking at it. Imagine you are talking to a woman 4 years in the future and she points to her beautiful child on the playground and says "I was going to abort her but the Supreme Court stopped it. I'm glad they did. She's the light of my life."
Would you tell her you were hoping she would have gotten aborted the day the clinics shut down? If not, would you think it?
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This sounds like a ****ing Hallmark movie.

Yes, I'm so sure that we will all encounter total strangers who will tell us that they were going to have an abortion until SCOTUS stopped it. I mean, every woman talks to creepy strange men about their pregnancies.

This thread is stupid, but at least you didn't spend the weekend pouting about Pete Buttigieg being gay, and instead just started a thread that we can all point at and laugh.
 
Roger Duke said:
Some abortion clinics were forced to shut down immediately after yesterday's historic Supreme Court decision. Many of those women will simply go to a different state but not all. Months from now, babies will be born who wouldn't have otherwise.
Who will they become?
Will one be the brain surgeon who removes your tumor in 30 years?
Will one be the firefighter who pulls you from your burning car in 20 years?
Will one be the child who sees you are about to get struck by a truck and warns you just in time?
We can debate all we want about when "life" begins and what "life" even is. But one thing we can't debate is that a sperm joining with an egg is a future life.......and each of those future lives has great potential.
Click to expand...

If abortion had been legal at the time, Ted Bundy's mother, who pretended to be his sister for decades, would have taken advantage of it. And the dozens of young women he murdered would have lived another day and not have to have faced his "great potential".
 
Roger Duke said:
That is a silly way to word it.
Does the state have de facto ownership of my brain because it tells it how to behave through the laws on the books? Laws are based on maintaining order but their true foundation is compassion.
Click to expand...

 
When in seminary school, this question was posed: "Does God deal out souls at the moment of conception? Catholic doctrine stated that 1) unless one knows and accepts Jesus, and 2) unless baptized, there is no path to heaven."

Should being a 'human being' be tied to having a soul, or simply when the egg is fertilized? To end a human life seems to require a human, in totality, to exist, and without a soul it is not a human in the religious sense and possibly legal sense. The moment of humanality needs to be determined to say for sure who or what is being aborted.

I go with the soul thing to determine a human and if abortion is right, wrong, or just a medical procedure. "I think" is no basis for a law.
 
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