Was Trudeau justified in using the Emergency Measures Act?

[Chomsky]

I'm interested in what people think of PM Trudeau invoking provisions of the Emergency Measures Act to deal with protests in Ottawa. If you want to read the provisions of the Act before you vote it can be viewed here.

I've left the poll choices visible because I'd like to see how Canadians vote, but everyone please feel free to weigh in with your opinion and vote.

Unless Fed intervention was required due to legal requirement (ex: to clear fed land or jurisdictions where local authorities cannot exert control), or the provincial leadership requested federal assistance, I do not believe the feds needed to step in as it seems the local authorities were more than capable of handling the situation.

I do not know if either of the above requirements were met, which is why I cannot give a firm response.

Therefore, my response is,

"other"

 

[Chomsky]

I'd say that when its a large group of people, truckers in this instance, that purposefully block public roads and crossings in order to wreak havoc and inconvenience other people and also hurt commerce and normal business, then its not really a "protest", its domestic coercion. You can tolerate so much of that, and then eventually it has to end.
The authorities in the USA should have been far harsher on the domestic black supremacy riots of BLM, imo. Lots of people were ruined by that, it was even way worse than Ottawa imo.
Ya gotta have law and order, and ya gotta have your roadways and border crossings etc open. Do whatever it takes. This "cause" is dumb to begin with. ffs people.

*edit: voted yes

Whatever one may chose to call it, it is illegal. 'Nuff said!

 

[Chomsky]

After a quick reading of the law and while stating I am not a lawyer my assessment is a follows:

- Blocking of the bridge between the U.S. and Canada may be a close call for allowing of this emergency measure.

- Blocking some streets in Ottawa does not seem to me to allow for this measure to be used.

I think this is a fair response.

I suppose Trudeau might have an in though, due to the local blockades having been designed to harm the national economy, effecting all citizenry.

It might be a tenuous claim, however it might carry legal gravitas,

 

[JANFU]

I'm not so sure.

Unnecessary and ineffective imo. The protesters got everything they needed to remain until this weekend - fuel, food etc were all provided free to them. They're not leaving because they ran out of money - they've leaving because they are either a) about to be arrested or b) have been arrested.

I think the OPD could have blocked off streets due to police operations without the Act. Police block off areas all the time when there's something going on and they need people to stay away.

I think good police work and enough resources under current laws could have accomplished what is being done yesterday and today.

It was a mess. 1460 Officer - when the convoy hit downtown they had 5 officers and about 500 protesters
If action was taken earlier, would there have been the need for an EA?

My best guess is if acted upon early, we would not have needed an EA

This convoy should have been targeted much earlier, by Provincial inspectors. That would take from what I know, about 20 % of the big rigs off the road
Freezing funds, so the protesters will not see a penny

One thing I do know is that the Canadian people will demands clear resoning for the implementation an EA

 

[Chomsky]

I vote "No." This was not the Free Quebec movement killing government officials and setting off car bombs in crowded population centers. Such measures are not necessary and should not be used when dealing with non-violent civil disobedience in a law-governed democracy. By all mean, arrest the protesters blocking the roads and if they refuse to move their vehicles have them held in civil contempt to the tune of thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. But there is no need to suspend civil rights or order people to be unbanked in order for order to be restored.

I generally agree, but mine was not a hard 'No'.

Trudeau has the right to clear federal lands.

But yes, suspending civil rights (which I was not aware he had done), or freezing bank accounts, was a terrible thing to do.

If your claims are true, I suspect many foreign nationals (and even citizens!) are going to start thinking twice about the seemingly capricious nature of their Canadian financial accounts!

 

[Chomsky]

I won't screw up your poll by voting, but without freezing some of the organizers' accounts, how were they going to cut off supplies and get the protesters to leave? I guess actually, they're clearing them out without cutting supplies like food, fuel and hotel rooms. But probably they're dealing with a much smaller crowd because of the frozen funds. It does seem like a lot of accounts have been frozen, though--76? And officials say there are more to come. I don't think it should be used as a punishment, but as a strategy to end the occupation only.

How is that, "Screwing-up" the poll?

If you don't vote, we are not getting a true representation!

 

[Chomsky]

This tells me that whatever ails your southern neighbor is very contagious.

It's worse than Covid!

 

[Chomsky]

I saw no police spraying them with gas or fire hoses, no beating with batons, etc, like they did here during BLM protests and they've been blocking roads for awhile now. Some accounts were frozen because of funding from people on Canada's terrorist list.

This whole thing was started by a QAnon guy, who was anti vax and fueled on FB by foreigners. I'm not sure what they all found but enough to justify this outcome. I heard 90% of their truckers have the vaccine already. Seems like a mountain made from a molehill to me.

When is it starting in America? FOX seems pumped for it!!

Last I checked, quite a few years ago, "Fox News" cannot broadcast in Canady under that name due to Canada classifying them as 'an entertainment channel'.

I'm not sure if dropping 'News' from their name, would allow them to broadcast the same programming?

Maybe some enlightened Canuck, knows?

 

[Callen]

I think it was required in order to augment the policing action in Ottawa. They simply didn't have the resources to deal with it. We don't have an NG and the military is a non-starter. The RCMP can only perform law enforcement where there are no municipal police forces.The EA allowed for the deployment of the RCMP. I also believe that the freezing of any online funds in the hands of the organizers was critical. As mentioned on other threads freezing accounts of regular protesters is out of bounds to me. I also think it should be revoked as soon as things are well under control.

 

[SkyFox76]

A reporter earlier made the point that the blockades aren't effective and people are getting in. I'm not sure why that is. Do you see people walking right by police at the checkpoints?

My streams atm are inside the front of the crowd where the police are, but I know this morning there were none of the streamers I normally watch but one by one they've all showed up in the this same area and the crowd just keeps growing. I know yesterday they were carding people in vehicles, and for a few hours the streamers that had to go charge their phones and back up batteries had to kind of maneuver around different blocks to areas where there were no blockades, but they eventually made it in.

ETA---okay, I just clicked on some live streamer idk of, but he was several blocks away and walked right into where the crowd is.

 

[j brown's body]

How is this different than large riots that have occurred here, or the FLQ crisis? We survived all that.

Maybe one should ask if they should have declared a national emergency for those riots.

Cops sure beat up on the peaceful demonstrators though, and yall didn't mind that or mind Florida passing a law to drive over them.

 

[JANFU]

Unless Fed intervention was required due to legal requirement (ex: to clear fed land or jurisdictions where local authorities cannot exert control), or the provincial leadership requested federal assistance, I do not believe the feds needed to step in as it seems the local authorities were more than capable of handling the situation.

I do not know if either of the above requirements were met, which is why I cannot give a firm response.

Therefore, my response is,

"other"

They were in City and Federal jurisdictions
We had the Ottawa Police, Parliamentary Police, RCMP.
The EA gave officers from other jurisdictions the legal basis to enforce City Bylaws, Provincial & Federal Laws.
It provided police to procure towing ability. Companies were refusing to tow any of the protesters.

A very deep dive into the reasoning for enacting an EA
Cities across the country will look at Ottawa for what not to do.

I am waiting to see what parts of the EA are used, how it is used, including the severity of the charges laid, what was or was not needed.
But the critical part is why did we need an EA

The City of Windsor police had to use US towing companies when clearing the Ambassador Bridge blockade

Not sure how that works in the US when police from within or outside of the State are called in?

 

[Callen]

My argument is that like most democracies, the Canadian government has ready tools at its disposal that do not require it suspending the civil rights of Canadian citizens for the sake of expediency. I

The EA does NOT suspend anyone's civil rights, in fact they are protected within the law. Due process is available to anyone who feels their rights were violated.

"Under the Emergencies Act, a declaration of an emergency by the Cabinet must be reviewed by Parliament.[33] Any temporary laws made under the act are subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Bill of Rights, and must have regard to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.[34][35]"

 

[j brown's body]

I'm interested in what people think of PM Trudeau invoking provisions of the Emergency Measures Act to deal with protests in Ottawa. If you want to read the provisions of the Act before you vote it can be viewed here.

I've left the poll choices visible because I'd like to see how Canadians vote, but everyone please feel free to weigh in with your opinion and vote.

What did it give the government the power to do?

 

[Chomsky]

Well certainly, Surrealistik. I am not saying that this should have been allowed to continue. Quite the opposite in fact. My argument is that like most democracies, the Canadian government has ready tools at its disposal that do not require it suspending the civil rights of Canadian citizens for the sake of expediency. I do not see why the use of this act was necessary. My argument is that unless lives are being lost and a country is in the midst of a massive coordinated terrorist campaign or violent insurrection, such extreme measures are totally uncalled for.

Bingo!

 

[Chomsky]

That's true and it's "for better".

While I agree with your general sentiments here, some things like 1/6 & Portland occupancies should never be tolerated.

 

[j brown's body]

Truly, Gateman_Wen? Who was killed or was threatened with death as a direct result of these protests? Civil disobedience for a cause that one disagrees with should never be relabeled "terrorism." Blocking traffic is illegal, and people who do it should be arrested. But they should not be relabeled "terrorists."

The point of civil disobedience is to be arrested. Otherwise, it's just terrorism.

 

[JANFU]

Bingo!

Post 63

 

[Rexedgar]

We'll see what happens with Canada's southern neighbor this fall. I think it possible the citizens of the U.S. may speak quite clearly in November. We'll see.

IMO, whichever way November falls, we are a long way from fixing what ails us.

 

[SkyFox76]

So this is interesting. Up until now it's just been the crowd chanting freedom, and various things. Now they've got some music going so the dance party is back, and someone just set off some small fireworks. The difference now is there isn't free food all over and no fires to warms up with. I did hear a semi horn in the distance a bit ago, though not sure where it's located.

 

[Acadia]

I'm a no and I think it will be quite a stain on Canada going forth. I think Canada has an all new (and quite unbecoming) look to it - not unlike Australia, which I think also has a new image due the last couple years. A few weeks ago, I didn't think Canada had gone nearly as far as Australia has - but in the last few weeks, I think Canada ran right past Australia and took a big lead in the authoritarian government race.

Trudeau is a massive stain; a disgrace and dilettante. He has zero leadership skills and is a coward for not engaging with the truckers.
Citizens didn't need to get trampled, beat with batons and shot point blank.

 

[Chomsky]

We'll see what happens with Canada's southern neighbor this fall. I think it possible the citizens of the U.S. may speak quite clearly in November. We'll see.
Then, if my thought/hope is correct - will that same U.S. contagion (I hope we'll soon witness) spread north or will there become a glaring difference (more than even now) between Canada and its southern neighbor. And if the difference between the two countries grows bigger - in how each is governed (and what their respective citizens want from their own governments) - to whom will Canada look to be their big brother? Will they look to the U.S. or will they look elsewhere? Proximity makes the U.S. a logical choice but if ideology separates too far, what impact will that have.

The U.S. and Canada have historically been friends. Once Trump became president, MANY Canadians grew remarkably and very vocally critical of the U.S., its government, its policies, and half its people. Then Biden became president and those Canadians seemed pleased with that development (despite some still being stuck/practically glued to TDS). Now, this Freedom Convoy took place in Canada and boy has Trudeau shown his true colors. Canadians criticize him - but many are quite comfortable with the mandates and even with the EA. But now, Canada has had a spotlight on it, the world has watched, and Canada has drawn some very strong criticism its direction, some even from within seemingly "unified" Canada.

So, we'll learn if those truckers really were the tiny fringe some Canadians and Trudeau want to view them as. And we'll learn (in November) how satisfied or dissatisfied Americans are with their government. Will both countries stay "left"? Will both countries move "right", led by the November election in the U.S.? Or will Canada stay left and the U.S. move right and, if so, how will that impact the relationship between the two.

Obviously, I'm off topic but sometimes a comment like the short Rexedgar comment (and Allan's response to it) moves me into pondering mode. This is an interesting time for both the U.S. and now for Canada too.

Great post!

As to the bolded, remember Canadians are loyal to - and swear an oath to - the Royal Queen, even if in a convoluted way. So, they have great kinship to the U.K.

It might be interesting to see if the rank & file citizens feel more kinship to Yanks? Or, Brits? But from my experience, they often seem to feel 'a part of the Brits', whereas we are their 'friends down below'.

Of course I'm speaking from anecdotal experience, here.

 

[Acadia]

You've not seen the video of Trump's walk to St. John's Church?

And whose rights were trampled and who was injured? Who had their livelihood threatened?
It. Was. A. Walk.
Any push back by police on the violent rioters was ordered by Mayor Muriel Bowser.

 

[Chomsky]

The point of civil disobedience is to be arrested. Otherwise, it's just terrorism.

Exactly!

The idea of 'civil disobedience', is to be publicly peacefully arrested as a demonstration of one's convictions.

If you commit a crime to get away with it, you're doing something else.

 

[Ginger Ale]

The vast majority of Canadian truckers (as well as Canadians more generally) support the vaccine mandates, and oppose the protests.

And that's what's important right there. If the vast majority support it then I would say Trudeau is doing the correct thing.