Was Trudeau justified in using the Emergency Measures Act?

[TheParser]

NO, that beautifully coiffed pipsqueak was not.

How could Canadians have elected him to anything?

 

[Surrealistik]

I saw no police spraying them with gas or fire hoses, no beating with batons, etc, like they did here during BLM protests and they've been blocking roads for awhile now. Some accounts were frozen because of funding from people on Canada's terrorist list.

This whole thing was started by a QAnon guy, who was anti vax and fueled on FB by foreigners. I'm not sure what they all found but enough to justify this outcome. I heard 90% of their truckers have the vaccine already. Seems like a mountain made from a molehill to me.

When is it starting in America? FOX seems pumped for it!!

The vast majority of Canadian truckers (as well as Canadians more generally) support the vaccine mandates, and oppose the protests.

 

[RetiredUSN]

I find it sad that many Americans were calling these truckers terrorists, trailer trash, scumbags, and many other derogative descriptive terms, while they conveniently forget about the chop zone and other nightly riots that paralyzed portions of cities and went on for two years.................... and destroyed thousands of buildings and businesses.

It's not my place to tell the Canadians how they go about law and order, but I've seen plenty of the usual American bigots and hypocrites on this forum doing plenty of it.

 

[Felis Leo]

I can respect that, but the protests that involved explicitly illegal disruptions and other like activities absolutely had to go.

Well certainly, Surrealistik. I am not saying that this should have been allowed to continue. Quite the opposite in fact. My argument is that like most democracies, the Canadian government has ready tools at its disposal that do not require it suspending the civil rights of Canadian citizens for the sake of expediency. I do not see why the use of this act was necessary. My argument is that unless lives are being lost and a country is in the midst of a massive coordinated terrorist campaign or violent insurrection, such extreme measures are totally uncalled for.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

I'd say that when its a large group of people, truckers in this instance, that purposefully block public roads and crossings in order to wreak havoc and inconvenience other people and also hurt commerce and normal business, then its not really a "protest", its domestic coercion. You can tolerate so much of that, and then eventually it has to end.
The authorities in the USA should have been far harsher on the domestic black supremacy riots of BLM, imo. Lots of people were ruined by that, it was even way worse than Ottawa imo.
Ya gotta have law and order, and ya gotta have your roadways and border crossings etc open. Do whatever it takes. This "cause" is dumb to begin with. ffs people.

*edit: voted yes

Domestic coercion? More like economic terrorism.

In a very Canadian way.

 

[trouble13]

You've not seen the video of Trump's walk to St. John's Church?

Sure have and it does not come close to what what Australia, Canada, and New Zealand have done in the name of Covid protocols.

 

[cpwill]

I'm interested in what people think of PM Trudeau invoking provisions of the Emergency Measures Act to deal with protests in Ottawa. If you want to read the provisions of the Act before you vote it can be viewed here.

I've left the poll choices visible because I'd like to see how Canadians vote, but everyone please feel free to weigh in with your opinion and vote.

Hello Allan

I'm not a Canadian, so, feel free not to count me, but, as I understand the intent of the bill, it's basically built around things like "invasion" or "crippling EMP/cyber-attack to the point where we don't have a working economy our country any more".

A protest that shuts down traffic (*Full Disclosure: While I am not a huge fan of vaccine mandates, I think that protests which harm third parties are self-destructive and wrong) probably does not fit that bill.

 

[Felis Leo]

Domestic coercion? More like economic terrorism.

In a very Canadian way.

Truly, Gateman_Wen? Who was killed or was threatened with death as a direct result of these protests? Civil disobedience for a cause that one disagrees with should never be relabeled "terrorism." Blocking traffic is illegal, and people who do it should be arrested. But they should not be relabeled "terrorists."

 

[gbg3]

This tells me that whatever ails your southern neighbor is very contagious.

We'll see what happens with Canada's southern neighbor this fall. I think it possible the citizens of the U.S. may speak quite clearly in November. We'll see.
Then, if my thought/hope is correct - will that same U.S. contagion (I hope we'll soon witness) spread north or will there become a glaring difference (more than even now) between Canada and its southern neighbor. And if the difference between the two countries grows bigger - in how each is governed (and what their respective citizens want from their own governments) - to whom will Canada look to be their big brother? Will they look to the U.S. or will they look elsewhere? Proximity makes the U.S. a logical choice but if ideology separates too far, what impact will that have.

The U.S. and Canada have historically been friends. Once Trump became president, MANY Canadians grew remarkably and very vocally critical of the U.S., its government, its policies, and half its people. Then Biden became president and those Canadians seemed pleased with that development (despite some still being stuck/practically glued to TDS). Now, this Freedom Convoy took place in Canada and boy has Trudeau shown his true colors. Canadians criticize him - but many are quite comfortable with the mandates and even with the EA. But now, Canada has had a spotlight on it, the world has watched, and Canada has drawn some very strong criticism its direction, some even from within seemingly "unified" Canada.

So, we'll learn if those truckers really were the tiny fringe some Canadians and Trudeau want to view them as. And we'll learn (in November) how satisfied or dissatisfied Americans are with their government. Will both countries stay "left"? Will both countries move "right", led by the November election in the U.S.? Or will Canada stay left and the U.S. move right and, if so, how will that impact the relationship between the two.

Obviously, I'm off topic but sometimes a comment like the short Rexedgar comment (and Allan's response to it) moves me into pondering mode. This is an interesting time for both the U.S. and now for Canada too.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Truly, Gateman_Wen? Who was killed or was threatened with death as a direct result of these protests? Civil disobedience for a cause that one disagrees with should never be relabeled "terrorism." Blocking traffic is illegal, and people who do it should be arrested. But they should not be relabeled "terrorists."

What do you think economic terrorism is?

 

[gbg3]

What Trudea did amounts to driving a thumbtack into a cork board using a sledgehammer.

It would be like sending troops to our southern border and deterring illegal crossings by using live ammo on the invaders.

I actually think that's a pretty fair comparison. Canada had a very peaceful protest and did use a very dramatic and unreasonable sledgehammer. We have an enormous problem/situation at our southern border and what you described would be a quite dramatic reaction - many times greater than reasonable.

 

[gbg3]

For better or worse our gov has not been nearly as heavy handed as either Australia or Canada.

That's true and it's "for better".

 

[JANFU]

How is this different than large riots that have occurred here, or the FLQ crisis? We survived all that.

There are parts of the EA that were needed
Choking off funds
Designating areas as red zones, gave the Police the legal right too stop, ID and question people trying to enter the areas
We have never seen blockades from BC, AB, Manitoba, & Ontario of border crossings

The blockade of downtown Ottawa placed residents at risk. If there was need of fire or ambulance response, how would they attend the scene?

Any delay is needles, and as we know 2 people attempted to set an old building on fire

Now how the Govt handles the charges, if it is a broad brush punitive effort, I would not be in favor of that.

Property seizures?? Must wait and see how this is done. Not in favor of mass seizures




Note just on news- Pacific Hway crossing closed.

 

[JANFU]

For better or worse our gov has not been nearly as heavy handed as either Australia or Canada.

Look here

 

[Allan]

There are parts of the EA that were needed

I'm not so sure.

Choking off funds

Unnecessary and ineffective imo. The protesters got everything they needed to remain until this weekend - fuel, food etc were all provided free to them. They're not leaving because they ran out of money - they've leaving because they are either a) about to be arrested or b) have been arrested.

Designating areas as red zones, gave the Police the legal right too stop, ID and question people trying to enter the areas

I think the OPD could have blocked off streets due to police operations without the Act. Police block off areas all the time when there's something going on and they need people to stay away.

I think good police work and enough resources under current laws could have accomplished what is being done yesterday and today.

 

[Gaius46]

I voted no because my, admittedly non-lawyer, read of the law says that the truckers actions do not rise to the level of a national or a public welfare emergency.

 

[Allan]

Look here

That's terrible. Where in Canada, Australia or New Zealand did that happen?!?

 

[JANFU]

I vote "No." This was not the Free Quebec movement killing government officials and setting off car bombs in crowded population centers. Such measures are not necessary and should not be used when dealing with non-violent civil disobedience in a law-governed democracy. By all mean, arrest the protesters blocking the roads and if they refuse to move their vehicles have them held in civil contempt to the tune of thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. But there is no need to suspend civil rights or order people to be unbanked in order for order to be restored.

There are specific portions of the EA that were needed
I see you points, but disagree.
Note this will drive changes in Canadian Laws. There will be a very public autopsy performed by Parliament, press, the public and politicians

 

[JANFU]

That's terrible. Where in Canada, Australia or New Zealand did that happen?!?

 

[trouble13]

Look here

What objection do you have to repelling a violent mob with a nonlethal irritant?

 

[Allan]

What objection do you have to repelling a violent mob with a nonlethal irritant?

When it's Trump it's a "violent mob". What a snowflake he is.

 

[SkyFox76]

I'm not so sure.

Unnecessary and ineffective imo. The protesters got everything they needed to remain until this weekend - fuel, food etc were all provided free to them. They're not leaving because they ran out of money - they've leaving because they are either a) about to be arrested or b) have been arrested.

I think the OPD could have blocked off streets due to police operations without the Act. Police block off areas all the time when there's something going on and they need people to stay away.

I think good police work and enough resources under current laws could have accomplished what is being done yesterday and today.

The streams I'm watching clearly shows that those "100's of blockades" to keep people out of the area is not happening. And that's been pretty much how this has gone for going on 3 weeks. They make a statement of what won't be tolerated, then turn right around and allow it.

 

[Allan]

The streams I'm watching clearly shows that those "100's of blockades" to keep people out of the area is not happening. And that's been pretty much how this has gone for going on 3 weeks. They make a statement of what won't be tolerated, then turn right around and allow it.

A reporter earlier made the point that the blockades aren't effective and people are getting in. I'm not sure why that is. Do you see people walking right by police at the checkpoints?

 

[trouble13]

When it's Trump it's a "violent mob". What a snowflake he is.

They lit the church on fire. Do you call that peaceful?

 

[Common Sense 1]

I'm interested in what people think of PM Trudeau invoking provisions of the Emergency Measures Act to deal with protests in Ottawa. If you want to read the provisions of the Act before you vote it can be viewed here.

I've left the poll choices visible because I'd like to see how Canadians vote, but everyone please feel free to weigh in with your opinion and vote.

Posting for you to take a look at. Trudeau's action seem to be a giant overreach.

When Fascism Comes To America, It Will Look Like Justin Trudeau’s Canada​

Trudeau’s dangerous not just because he’s abusing Canadians, but because he is providing the wish list for crackdowns by Democrats in the U.S.: “every single bank, credit union, investment broker and insurance provider in the country has been deputized to figure out if they have a blockader as a client, and to immediately freeze their accounts if so.”

If Justin Trudeau had merely removed trucks from blocking a bridge in protest of vaccine mandates, it would be no big deal. Protesters for various causes routinely get removed from blocking traffic.
But that’s not all Justin Trudeau did. He suspended civil liberties in Canada, targeting peaceful protesters and anyone who supports them. Not because those supporters committed a crime, but because they supported the political opposition to Trudeau’s government.


Trudeau ordered all financial institutions to freeze the assets of his political opposition without court order and with full immunity from liability, and no financial asset was spared.

“The names of both individuals and entities as well as crypto wallets have been shared by the RCMP with financial institutions and accounts have been frozen and more accounts will be frozen.”

Deputy PM Chrystia Freeland: "The names of both individuals and entities as well as crypto wallets have been shared by the RCMP with financial institutions and accounts have been frozen and more accounts will be frozen." pic.twitter.com/iA69DbRJl1