Was This Shooting/Killing Justified?

[Lutherf]

Not true in Texas, thank God!

What's legal and what's a good idea are often quite different.

 

[Goshin]

So the guy just knocked on the door? See this is why you need to see him and identify your target. That could have been a cop, or someone running from an assault, or medical emergency.

Well, the homeowner said "pounding furiously" on the door... but I still ain't shooting thru no door under most circumstances I could reasonably imagine. Could be anything. If they BUST the door OPEN, now we're talking trigger time...

 

[Texmex]

What's legal and what's a good idea are often quite different.

I'm glad it's legal and I think it is a good idea to boot. If you don't want to be shot, don't use a crowbar on my door while attempting to break into my house.

 

[Jerry]

I'm glad it's legal and I think it is a good idea to boot. If you don't want to be shot, don't use a crowbar on my door while attempting to break into my house.

Evidently the crowbar was never used on the door. There was only knocking.

 

[Goshin]

Evidently the crowbar was never used on the door. There was only knocking.

Was two different cases Jerry. The OP case was prying at the door; the case Luther linked to was the one with just the knocking or "pounding" only.

 

[nota bene]

The OP's link was not to the Houston Chronicle but to KHOU. Here is what the Chronicle has reported (and I'm still looking for other info):

A woman died after she was found shot, lying face down on the ground and clutching a crowbar early Tuesday morning outside at an apartment complex in northwest Houston.

The discovery was made about 3 a.m. at the Wilshire Place apartments at 6000 Hollister near Pine Grove, according to the Houston Police Department.

Police said the woman, whose name has not been released, was gripping a crowbar and had apparently crawled from where she had been shot outside an apartment. She was rushed to an area hospital, where she was pronounced dead.

Dead woman clutching crowbar crawled from Houston apartment - Houston Chronicle

 

[Texmex]

Evidently the crowbar was never used on the door. There was only knocking.

OK, why would someone need a crowbar to knock on a door?

If this incident had happened to me, I believe I would have waited until the door was broken open. Then again, I wasn't there.

 

[nota bene]

Here are the only other local links I've found. Interestingly, one refers to "residents" plural while the other refers to the 23-year old shooter.

Apartment residents fire through door, killing crowbar-wielding female burglary suspect in northwest Houston | abc13.com

HPD: Man fatally shoots crowbar-wielding woman at NW Houston apartments | News - Home

 

[Jerry]

OK, why would someone need a crowbar to knock on a door?

What makes you think he made a conscience decision to bring the crowbar at all. He was working on his car, that could have been for a tire, maybe he just didn't put it down. People do things like that.

My point is you don't know wtf is going on unles you identify your target.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

Police received a call about a suspicious person at a complex in the 6000 block of Hollister, just north of W. Tidwell Road, around 4 a.m.
Officers arrived to find a woman, who was in her 20s, lying on the sidewalk with a crowbar in her hand. She had been shot to death.
Police said the woman had been trying to pry open the front door of an apartment when the 23-year-old resident, who feared for his safety, fired three shots through the front door. Two of them hit the woman and the other went into the bedroom of teenagers who lived in a separate unit. Luckily, they were not harmed..

Shooting through a door is often a bad idea, especially if you live in an apartment. The shooter will probably pay for this mistake handsomely.

 

[Surtr]

Is this shooting justified? Was the resident's life in jeoprody? To me the resident was justified because one does not wiat to make certain they will be attacked instead one has to make the life or death decision.

I believe it's justified. If somebody is trying to forcibly pry my door open in the middle of the night, I'm going to eliminate the threat before they have a chance to do harm. Maybe the dumb ass should have thought about her actions before trying to break into someone's residence.

 

[Surtr]

Justified. Stupid, but justified. This isn't warfare. Spray and pray is for the battlefield.

Spray and pray? Two of three rounds hit the intended target in a high stress situation. That's actually pretty good.

 

[Lutherf]

I believe it's justified. If somebody is trying to forcibly pry my door open in the middle of the night, I'm going to eliminate the threat before they have a chance to do harm. Maybe the dumb ass should have thought about her actions before trying to break into someone's residence.

I see this kind of reaction a lot but it simply can't be said enough....pulling the trigger is the LAST option you want to exercise. It's not even "up toward the middle". It's the last one and you do it because you're out of other options.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Not enough information given for me to decide. Firing without knowing what (or who) your rounds may hit is not justified IMHO.

I agree. My initial reaction was "yes", but then, as a I read more, I realized he may not only have not known if someone was actually breaking in (could have been a landlord, etc.), he also shot into somebody else's apartment. I need more info.

 

[Jerry]

I see this kind of reaction a lot but it simply can't be said enough....pulling the trigger is the LAST option you want to exercise. It's not even "up toward the middle". It's the last one and you do it because you're out of other options.

Well....not in Castle Doctrin states. If you identify someone in your backyard at night aproaching your home with a gun, that's P.I.D., take your shot.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Spray and pray? Two of three rounds hit the intended target in a high stress situation. That's actually pretty good.

LOL, not good enough. Especially for the people living in the other apartment. I doubt you would be talking about how "pretty good" it was if someone you cared had gotten shot and killed by a stray bullet.

 

[BretJ]

So would she not be closer to the apartment ? I think she may have been trying to get away from the place since she may have seen the guy with the gun but the guy just shoot her when she was running away therefore not justifiable since she would not be a threat to his safety as well as since the sidewalk is public property and not a crime to be on , but that is just assumptions .

Many shootings end with the bad guy (gal) running away only to die quite a ways away from the shooting. But again, hard to say without more info.

 

[Surtr]

I see this kind of reaction a lot but it simply can't be said enough....pulling the trigger is the LAST option you want to exercise. It's not even "up toward the middle". It's the last one and you do it because you're out of other options.

If someone is trying to tear my door off the hinges to get into my house in the middle of the night, there is no other option.

 

[humbolt]

True



Let's see that be the case if it happened to you...

The shooter's actions demonstrate someone untrained in fire arm safety and use. It does take some time and effort to do such things under control - takes training and practice. It's fortunate nobody else was hurt. Fear for one's own life is not license to endanger the lives of other innocent people.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Spray and pray? Two of three rounds hit the intended target in a high stress situation. That's actually pretty good.

Unless you (or your loved one) received that third round simply because they lived nearby.

 

[Lukas105]

I imagine all he heard was someone prying out his door and trying to break it down, not knowing if they had a gun or not. I can imagine there was shouting from the man, then he shot through the door, so that if the burglar did have a gun, she wouldn't have to the chance to shoot him. Perfectly safe in that respect, and I wish they would tell us what type of pistol that it was. Walls are not paper thin people, A 40 would stop dead after going through a door and another wall.

The shooter's actions demonstrate someone untrained in fire arm safety and use. It does take some time and effort to do such things under control - takes training and practice. It's fortunate nobody else was hurt. Fear for one's own life is not license to endanger the lives of other innocent people.

 

[humbolt]

Spray and pray? Two of three rounds hit the intended target in a high stress situation. That's actually pretty good.

Yeah, but doing that through a door is luck, not skill. Where'd that third round go again?

 

[humbolt]

I imagine all he heard was someone prying out his door and trying to break it down, not knowing if they had a gun or not. I can imagine there was shouting from the man, then he shot through the door, so that if the burglar did have a gun, she wouldn't have to the chance to shoot him. Perfectly safe in that respect, and I wish they would tell us what type of pistol that it was. Walls are not paper thin people, A 40 would stop dead after going through a door and another wall.

It's a hell of a thing to kill a man....

 

[humbolt]

I imagine all he heard was someone prying out his door and trying to break it down, not knowing if they had a gun or not. I can imagine there was shouting from the man, then he shot through the door, so that if the burglar did have a gun, she wouldn't have to the chance to shoot him. Perfectly safe in that respect, and I wish they would tell us what type of pistol that it was. Walls are not paper thin people, A 40 would stop dead after going through a door and another wall.

I can imagine all kinds of things. (I have fired a 40 into level 4 ballistic fiberglass at 30 feet, and it buckled the backside of the material). In the heat of the moment all one can do is have faith that training and practice take over. This is what military training is all about, and what other fire arm training attempts to instill in the user. Viewing this action with the benefit of considered safety and distance, it's easy to criticize the shooter. (The public here did this very thing after Fallujah, of all things). In this case I would prefer that the shooter actually see the target before shooting with the knowledge innocents are close by.

 

[rhinefire]

Cause he damn near shot the neighbors, poor form.

I guess the word "training" means one never make an errant move in a panic or close call situation!!?? You get your stupid little certificate from the local gun store after 8whole hours of training and now you are a Navy Seal. These are citizens, not Rambos