• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Was there a vast conspiracy to dethrone Trump?

roguenuke said:
His statements are wrong. You may want to believe it, but you are wrong. The number of votes does add up just fine, so long as you use eligible votes to calculate how many people voted when using the voter turnout percentage. Trying it the other way is using bad data.
Click to expand...
your patience is admirable.......
 
Mycroft said:
His math was not wrong.

Nobody has disputed the number of registered voters. Nobody has disputed the number of actual voters. The only thing that doesn't add up is the claimed number of votes that each candidate received.
Click to expand...
If that is true and that is the figure you are hanging your argument on, please tell us where you get that figure and if it takes into account same day voter registrations in states which allow for such things.
 
haymarket said:
Why are you doing the math so that the guilt falls on the Biden vote and not so it falls on the Trump vote ? That in itself mades your methodology very suspect.

Also, where does this figure of 212 registered voters come from and as of what date? Does it take into account states which have same day registration and voting?
Click to expand...
It's simply wrong. Registered voters has nothing to do with voter turnout. That is a separate thing. This is the exact same issue that they had last month when Jr tweeted about overvotes in single states, and they were wrong there too. They are using the voter turnout number with registered voters, rather than eligible voters.

The calculation for voter turnout uses eligible voters. It is ***Voter turnout = # of votes / # of eligible voters or .662 ~ 159.63M / 239.25M (estimates because numbers were rounded)

In the calculations that are wrong, they basically have used the voter turnout % expecting to recalculate the # of votes above with # of registered voters to get the number of votes.

Doing it correctly, if we are looking for the # of votes the equation is now ****# of votes = voter turnout x # of eligible votes.

However, the Trump fraud supporters are trying to claim that it should work out if you substitute # of registered votes for # of eligible voters in this equation. It won't because that number is going to be smaller than the actual number of eligible voters because not all eligible voters register to vote.

When you do math, generally you need two of the three variables in an equation to calculate the third one (or a way to find it). What you cannot do is try to substitute some other variable for one of the three that is not of the same value, and then expect to get the same results. That is not going to work.

www.statista.com

U.S. presidential elections: number of votes cast 1824-2020 | Statista

Since 1824, when the popular vote was first used to determine the overall winner in U.S.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
 
Mycroft said:
Your numbers do not match reality.
Click to expand...

The HAND COUNTS matched closely with the MACHINE COUNTS. You and your boy Trump LOST. Deal with that REALITY instead of lying like you do.
 
rocket88 said:
Basically, was there a vast conspiracy against Trump? Involving all the election officials and judges? Republicans and Democrats?
Click to expand...
No conspiracy against Trump. He lost simply because he lost the support of independents, swing voters. In 2016 Trump won independents 46-42 over Hillary with 12% voting third party against both major party candidates. In 2020, there was a 17 point swing with independent voters against Trump. Biden won independents, swing voters, the non-affiliated by a 54-41 margin. Interesting to note that in 2016 54% of independents did vote against Trump, the 42% who voted for Clinton along with the 12% who voted against both Trump and Clinton. Interesting number, that 54%.

Independents just got sick and tired of Trump's childish antics such as name calling and throwing of temper tantrums along with this third grad schoolyard bullying tactics. No conspiracy, just a total dislike by the non-affiliated swing voters for Trump's obnoxious persona and his very unpresidential behavior. there was no Hillary Clinton on the ballot to save Trump this time. In 2016 70% of independents, swing voters disliked Hillary Clinton, 57% disliked Trump, hence Trump winning the independent vote and thus the white house. In 2020 61% of independents disliked Trump vs. 34% who disliked Biden. Like and Dislike are important as history has shown folks usually don't vote for someone they disliked. Biden wasn't as disliked as Clinton was, he was highly liked by independents which went for him.

You can sum the election up with the fact Trump spent four years pleasing his base while ignoring independents. Biden made an outreach to independents, although this made the progressive wing of his party mad, but that effort to attract the independent vote paid off in an election win. The Democrats problem was Biden had no coat tails, zero, none, nadda as the GOP did great down ballot picking up 13 house seats, a couple of state legislation and a governorship. Bottom line, there was no mandate, no endorsement nor rejection of either major parties ideals, agenda, policies etc. This election was 100% about getting rid of Trump as the GOP success in down ballot offices proves.
 
roguenuke said:
It's simply wrong. Registered voters has nothing to do with voter turnout. That is a separate thing. This is the exact same issue that they had last month when Jr tweeted about overvotes in single states, and they were wrong there too. They are using the voter turnout number with registered voters, rather than eligible voters.

The calculation for voter turnout uses eligible voters. It is ***Voter turnout = # of votes / # of eligible voters or .662 ~ 159.63M / 239.25M (estimates because numbers were rounded)

In the calculations that are wrong, they basically have used the voter turnout % expecting to recalculate the # of votes above with # of registered voters to get the number of votes.

Doing it correctly, if we are looking for the # of votes the equation is now ****# of votes = voter turnout x # of eligible votes.

However, the Trump fraud supporters are trying to claim that it should work out if you substitute # of registered votes for # of eligible voters in this equation. It won't because that number is going to be smaller than the actual number of eligible voters because not all eligible voters register to vote.

When you do math, generally you need two of the three variables in an equation to calculate the third one (or a way to find it). What you cannot do is try to substitute some other variable for one of the three that is not of the same value, and then expect to get the same results. That is not going to work.

www.statista.com

U.S. presidential elections: number of votes cast 1824-2020 | Statista

Since 1824, when the popular vote was first used to determine the overall winner in U.S.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
Click to expand...

Thanks you for that detailed explanation. It is appreciated.
 
Mycroft said:
Which figure would you like to know about?

Here...this article explains where the numbers come from. https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...on-votes-eligible-voters-voted-2020-election/
Click to expand...
Should have figured you guys were believing blindly an article from one of the trash alt right sites.

They are wrong. Their numbers are wrong. You absolutely cannot substitute registered voters for eligible voters. That is bad math and any attempt to do this in court should be laughed at and shot down immediately because it breaks many rules of math.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Was there a "vast conspiracy to 'dethrone' Trump?"

IMO? Yes.

But it did not involve "all the election officials and judges." No.

IMO it did involve some Democrats and a few Republicans, and some election officials and partisan judges especially in a few key States.

But IMO it was mainly fostered by a combine of globalist interests. This would include the big multinational tech and industrial interests who control the bulk of media/information services, the members of the government "swamp" who owe their continued political power to the financial resources of those interests, and a bit of help from China and perhaps even Russia.

That is clearly evidenced in how the MSM, Social Media, Information Media (Google, etc.) and both the Democrats and those "Lincoln" Republicans have acted throughout the 4 years preceding the elections. Right up to using Covid-19 as the excuse to rush through mass-mail voting (not to be confused with existing absentee balloting) which even the Democrats used to admit was the least secure, most open to fraud method for voting.

So under those points I would vote "yes," if there were an actual poll.
Click to expand...
Yup, there are endless people in the world who are against Trump because he is an lying, worthless, uneducated piece of sub-human shit. The 80,000,000 Americans who had the intelligence to vote for Biden in order to stop Trump's destruction of the United States reflected their love of this country.
And, BTW, that asshole has not attended any Covid 19 meetings for 6 months. In addition, of the 800+ tweets he has sent since the election, ZERO have said anything about the devastating impact of Covid 19 in the US.
Your cute little conspiracy theory does not exist.
The Americans who voted against Trump were just tired and scared of watching a 4 year old constantly ****ing this great country up.
 
rocket88 said:
Basically, was there a vast conspiracy against Trump? Involving all the election officials and judges? Republicans and Democrats?
Click to expand...

It was a vast conspiracy of 80 million Americans and the rest of the world to rid us of this horrid man and his minions.
 
Mycroft said:
Your numbers do not match reality.
Click to expand...
Those numbers exactly reflect reality.
Your views do not.
Dismiss yourself immediately.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Was there a "vast conspiracy to 'dethrone' Trump?"

IMO? Yes.

But it did not involve "all the election officials and judges." No.

IMO it did involve some Democrats and a few Republicans, and some election officials and partisan judges especially in a few key States.

But IMO it was mainly fostered by a combine of globalist interests. This would include the big multinational tech and industrial interests who control the bulk of media/information services, the members of the government "swamp" who owe their continued political power to the financial resources of those interests, and a bit of help from China and perhaps even Russia.

That is clearly evidenced in how the MSM, Social Media, Information Media (Google, etc.) and both the Democrats and those "Lincoln" Republicans have acted throughout the 4 years preceding the elections. Right up to using Covid-19 as the excuse to rush through mass-mail voting (not to be confused with existing absentee balloting) which even the Democrats used to admit was the least secure, most open to fraud method for voting.

So under those points I would vote "yes," if there were an actual poll.
Click to expand...

You know, this post is real spaceman stuff.

You seem sincere and reasoned which is far more frightening than your deplorable allies with their iron phalluses in had protesting and threatening.

What a sad day in American is my sincere takeaway after reading this post from you.

Peace
 
YES, right from the start. When he announced he was running for president. I will go back in time. It was protocol that in new incoming president. Goes to a luncheon before he takes over in January. I remember so clearly, that when Obama got he elected. I saw on tv. There was HW Bush, GW Bush, Carter and Clinton standing there greeting Obama. And there stood the NWO members. You can go research and read for yourselves. It started with HW Bush in his State of the Union speech when he mentions the NWO 22 times. Then read the other former presidents speeches. They also mention the NWO. Obama is also NWO. President Trump was NOT invited to the luncheon (Protocal) and it was the first time it never took place. Why ??? He IS NOT NWO. And also, why is President Trump the only one. Who had to start his presidency without a full cabinet. Since 1998 there are 235 departments in the government. Those heads were all NWO. Including all CEO'S of every news media. President Trump didn't know or realize the fact. How big the enemy was that he had to fight against. One man could NOT take them on and win against them. The head quarters of the NWO called the Pratt House located in NYC. And recently I have learned. They have another head quarter in Washington DC 2 blocks from White House. That put me into shock. The NWO has now taken over DC. If you don't think Biden isn't a member. I have a bridge to sell you. Be happy you lost your country. When reality hits you in the face. Blame yourself. These conspiracy theories mostly true (NWO) and some not. NWO tactic has been a Character Assassination and COVID HOAX used against President Trump. Brain washed sheep believe everything the media says 100%. Can one person say that President Trump has been wrong 100% in his term. I encourage President Trump to work behind the scenes. Just like the Clintons and Obama have done. He has enough supporters to do so. People are so used to, the sweet talking two faced BS (Obama) and turn around and stab you in the back. Most people have turned to LYING, Cheating and Stealing as their daily routines. The honest people are becoming EXTINCT. I laugh when people say it's Russia doing things. The communist took over the country I came from. Escaping a revolution coming to the US. And I remember for 7yrs living here in freedom. We had monthly drills and shelters where we were instructed to go if Russia attacked. Never attacked did they. It's China and Germany who we should be afraid of. China using the COVID tactic and Germany's use of concentration camps. Can anyone answer this question. Why does the US have 900 camps in every state. Alaska the biggest can hold 2 million people. Montana camp has ovens in mountains like Germany had. Those will be used for people who WILL NOT comply with the NWO agenda. And down the road for people who will refuse to be vaccinated with the monitoring devise where you will be controlled. Listen to news from other countries. And do research. Timing is everything. Every time fact is exposed with truth. They take it down or gets buried where you have to dig deep to find the article again. One thing that really pisses me off. Is when my life gets effected in a negative way. Not by my own choices but due to other people's evil ways to affect my life.
 
EagleFreedom47 said:
YES, right from the start. When he announced he was running for president. I will go back in time. It was protocol that in new incoming president. Goes to a luncheon before he takes over in January. I remember so clearly, that when Obama got he elected. I saw on tv. There was HW Bush, GW Bush, Carter and Clinton standing there greeting Obama. And there stood the NWO members. You can go research and read for yourselves. It started with HW Bush in his State of the Union speech when he mentions the NWO 22 times. Then read the other former presidents speeches. They also mention the NWO. Obama is also NWO. President Trump was NOT invited to the luncheon (Protocal) and it was the first time it never took place. Why ??? He IS NOT NWO. And also, why is President Trump the only one. Who had to start his presidency without a full cabinet. Since 1998 there are 235 departments in the government. Those heads were all NWO. Including all CEO'S of every news media. President Trump didn't know or realize the fact. How big the enemy was that he had to fight against. One man could NOT take them on and win against them. The head quarters of the NWO called the Pratt House located in NYC. And recently I have learned. They have another head quarter in Washington DC 2 blocks from White House. That put me into shock. The NWO has now taken over DC. If you don't think Biden isn't a member. I have a bridge to sell you. Be happy you lost your country. When reality hits you in the face. Blame yourself. These conspiracy theories mostly true (NWO) and some not. NWO tactic has been a Character Assassination and COVID HOAX used against President Trump. Brain washed sheep believe everything the media says 100%. Can one person say that President Trump has been wrong 100% in his term. I encourage President Trump to work behind the scenes. Just like the Clintons and Obama have done. He has enough supporters to do so. People are so used to, the sweet talking two faced BS (Obama) and turn around and stab you in the back. Most people have turned to LYING, Cheating and Stealing as their daily routines. The honest people are becoming EXTINCT. I laugh when people say it's Russia doing things. The communist took over the country I came from. Escaping a revolution coming to the US. And I remember for 7yrs living here in freedom. We had monthly drills and shelters where we were instructed to go if Russia attacked. Never attacked did they. It's China and Germany who we should be afraid of. China using the COVID tactic and Germany's use of concentration camps. Can anyone answer this question. Why does the US have 900 camps in every state. Alaska the biggest can hold 2 million people. Montana camp has ovens in mountains like Germany had. Those will be used for people who WILL NOT comply with the NWO agenda. And down the road for people who will refuse to be vaccinated with the monitoring devise where you will be controlled. Listen to news from other countries. And do research. Timing is everything. Every time fact is exposed with truth. They take it down or gets buried where you have to dig deep to find the article again. One thing that really pisses me off. Is when my life gets effected in a negative way. Not by my own choices but due to other people's evil ways to affect my life.
Click to expand...
Wall of text that most will "tl,dr".

Which is probably a good thing, since it is filled with lies, conspiracy theories, and really bad info.
 
tacomancer said:
I wonder what the number would have been without the voter suppression efforts in places likes Texas (one drop box, removing polling places, voter purges, etc)
Click to expand...
Other states like Ohio did the same thing and there was no settled policy other than some jackass waiting on another jackass to say something. That really undermined voting
 
bomberfox said:
Other states like Ohio did the same thing and there was no settled policy other than some jackass waiting on another jackass to say something. That really undermined voting
Click to expand...
Oh I know! Look at my location.
 
roguenuke said:
Should have figured you guys were believing blindly an article from one of the trash alt right sites.

They are wrong. Their numbers are wrong. You absolutely cannot substitute registered voters for eligible voters. That is bad math and any attempt to do this in court should be laughed at and shot down immediately because it breaks many rules of math.
Click to expand...
When you are talking about actual votes, eligible voters are irrelevant.
 
haymarket said:
So why is it the Biden total you question and not the Trump total which was way off compared to his total of four years earlier?
Click to expand...
You should read my posts. I say "someone" is lying.

In any case, there is a mountain of evidence that puts Biden's votes in question...zero evidence that puts Trump's votes in question.
 
Mycroft said:
When you are talking about actual votes, eligible voters are irrelevant.
Click to expand...
This is not true if you are using the voter turnout rate at all, because the voter turnout rate is based on eligible voters. The math is limited to that.

Now, if you want to claim that there were more registered voters than eligible voters (not true, just stating as hypothetical) or that there are fewer registered voters than votes (again, not true, a hypothetical), then that would raise alarms.

What is being done here is manipulation of math, trying to substitute numbers into equations wrongly.

When voter turnout is calculated, it starts by using two variables that are counted data, number of votes and number of eligible voters. The voter turnout is a calculated number based off of those 2 variables. You cannot change which numbers are used in either of those two variables when using that calculated number to try to find one of those other two it was calculated from without being wrong.
 
Mycroft said:
You should read my posts. I say "someone" is lying.

In any case, there is a mountain of evidence that puts Biden's votes in question...zero evidence that puts Trump's votes in question.
Click to expand...
There is no evidence to question the election results.
That's why Trump lost all his bullshit court cases.
All of them.
You are still dismissed.
 
rocket88 said:
Basically, was there a vast conspiracy against Trump? Involving all the election officials and judges? Republicans and Democrats?
Click to expand...

The only throne Trump ever held sway from was the golden one in his Trump Tower bathroom.

But specifically in answer to your question, NO, there was no micro conspiracy much less "vast" conspiracy against Trump.

If Trump faced any negativity it was only because he brought it on himself and was thus justified.
 
rocket88 said:
Basically, was there a vast conspiracy against Trump? Involving all the election officials and judges? Republicans and Democrats?
Click to expand...
From before the election the swamp was in existential fear of letting an outsider from the world of cost and profit have a peek at the nations books.
The entire effort from A to Z was to protect “The way we do things around here”.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom