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Was the JFK Murder a Successful Coup by Government?

Atomic Kid

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We all know the 'official' investigation into the killing was bullcrap so why would you so easily accept the 'official' report that oswald was the lone shooter?
It wasn't bullcrap. There was certainly an element of political expediency to it since there existed the potential that the answers it sought to find as to who and why had the possible potential to push us toward war with an adversary with whom we had come perilously close to coming to blows with just one year earlier. So yes there was a lot riding on it. And really given the circumstances this was an incredibly extensive investigation that interviewed hundreds, if not thousands of potential witnesses throughout the entire nation and the world in a relatively speaking short period of time. They didn't spare any expense either. It was important.

My thinking goes like this presuming oswald is indeed the shooter. I'm out to kill the president because I'm a communist lunatic who thinka kennedy is evil.
Actually there isn't any evidence of Oswald ever having any personal or political/ideological animosity toward President Kennedy. His wife Marina was a big fan of JFK. Mostly because of Jackie. They kept a copy of a Life magazine, or some other publication that had extensively featured John and Jackie Kennedy prominently displayed in their living room. Oswald, who was known to be very controlling of his wife Marina, never voiced any objection to her whatsoever in regard to her admiration for the Kennedys. Also Lee Oswald, according to his brother Robert, was not really a truly political person. " He wasn’t political. He really wasn’t. I say that in all honesty, because he tried to become what he needed to be to achieve his immediate objectives; i.e., he needed to be a Marxist and accept the Russians [to] get the experience in Russia. When he returned to the United States, he didn’t want to be a Russian. He wanted to be an American, to be accepted by the American society, and so wherever he was … he wanted to be accepted. He wasn’t political. He was what’s convenient to be. " Robert also described his brother as probably being the ultimate pragmatist. " He’s going to fit in to where he needs to fit in to accomplish what he needs to accomplish … what is very essential to get by with, to be somebody. That’s what it comes down to — he wanted to be unique, by whatever it took…" Oswald had delusions of grandeur. He fancied himself as being, or destined to be, a historical or exceptional person or figure. Kennedy was simply the vehicle through which he could obtain the "unique" fame or notoriety he so desperately sought and desired to obtain.
 

bongsaway

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It wasn't bullcrap. There was certainly an element of political expediency to it since there existed the potential that the answers it sought to find as to who and why had the possible potential to push us toward war with an adversary with whom we had come perilously close to coming to blows with just one year earlier. So yes there was a lot riding on it. And really given the circumstances this was an incredibly extensive investigation that interviewed hundreds, if not thousands of potential witnesses throughout the entire nation and the world in a relatively speaking short period of time. They didn't spare any expense either. It was important.


Actually there isn't any evidence of Oswald ever having any personal or political/ideological animosity toward President Kennedy. His wife Marina was a big fan of JFK. Mostly because of Jackie. They kept a copy of a Life magazine, or some other publication that had extensively featured John and Jackie Kennedy prominently displayed in their living room. Oswald, who was known to be very controlling of his wife Marina, never voiced any objection to her whatsoever in regard to her admiration for the Kennedys. Also Lee Oswald, according to his brother Robert, was not really a truly political person. " He wasn’t political. He really wasn’t. I say that in all honesty, because he tried to become what he needed to be to achieve his immediate objectives; i.e., he needed to be a Marxist and accept the Russians [to] get the experience in Russia. When he returned to the United States, he didn’t want to be a Russian. He wanted to be an American, to be accepted by the American society, and so wherever he was … he wanted to be accepted. He wasn’t political. He was what’s convenient to be. " Robert also described his brother as probably being the ultimate pragmatist. " He’s going to fit in to where he needs to fit in to accomplish what he needs to accomplish … what is very essential to get by with, to be somebody. That’s what it comes down to — he wanted to be unique, by whatever it took…" Oswald had delusions of grandeur. He fancied himself as being, or destined to be, a historical or exceptional person or figure. Kennedy was simply the vehicle through which he could obtain the "unique" fame or notoriety he so desperately sought and desired to obtain.
Quite the stretch. He decided to kill a guy he had no beef with and whose wife was a big fan of kennedy. Makes sense to me.
 

OrphanSlug

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I am still convinced we will never know what really happened, thus all there is for this subject is conspiracy theory.

So I am going to go with the aliens did it theory.
 

Indrob

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It wasn't bullcrap. There was certainly an element of political expediency to it since there existed the potential that the answers it sought to find as to who and why had the possible potential to push us toward war with an adversary with whom we had come perilously close to coming to blows with just one year earlier. So yes there was a lot riding on it. And really given the circumstances this was an incredibly extensive investigation that interviewed hundreds, if not thousands of potential witnesses throughout the entire nation and the world in a relatively speaking short period of time. They didn't spare any expense either. It was important.


Actually there isn't any evidence of Oswald ever having any personal or political/ideological animosity toward President Kennedy. His wife Marina was a big fan of JFK. Mostly because of Jackie. They kept a copy of a Life magazine, or some other publication that had extensively featured John and Jackie Kennedy prominently displayed in their living room. Oswald, who was known to be very controlling of his wife Marina, never voiced any objection to her whatsoever in regard to her admiration for the Kennedys. Also Lee Oswald, according to his brother Robert, was not really a truly political person. " He wasn’t political. He really wasn’t. I say that in all honesty, because he tried to become what he needed to be to achieve his immediate objectives; i.e., he needed to be a Marxist and accept the Russians [to] get the experience in Russia. When he returned to the United States, he didn’t want to be a Russian. He wanted to be an American, to be accepted by the American society, and so wherever he was … he wanted to be accepted. He wasn’t political. He was what’s convenient to be. " Robert also described his brother as probably being the ultimate pragmatist. " He’s going to fit in to where he needs to fit in to accomplish what he needs to accomplish … what is very essential to get by with, to be somebody. That’s what it comes down to — he wanted to be unique, by whatever it took…" Oswald had delusions of grandeur. He fancied himself as being, or destined to be, a historical or exceptional person or figure. Kennedy was simply the vehicle through which he could obtain the "unique" fame or notoriety he so desperately sought and desired to obtain.

I'll say one thing for sure, you've ACCEPTED the "Official" explanation hook, line and sinker.
 

calamity

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The man had his enemies. One does not really ask, "Who wanted Kennedy dead?" One probably asks "Who did not want Kennedy dead?"

The same could be said for Robert.
 

Cordelier

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People lie for a variety of reasons.

True... but my question is if there is any countervailing evidence to disprove Frazier's testimony? There's plenty of supporting evidence, as I outlined above. So if you're going to question what the man said under oath, shouldn't you have some sound basis for doing so?
 

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Quite the stretch. He decided to kill a guy he had no beef with and whose wife was a big fan of kennedy. Makes sense to me.
He tried to kill Kennedy's most vocal opponent, General Walker, just months earlier. So how would that seem to fit with your perception of him? You're not understanding the psychoses driving Oswald. Who it was, or what their politics or ideology was. Those things were essentially inconsequential as far as he was concerned. What mattered only to Oswald was that his victim be a figure of such high stature and import that the act of taking that person down would confer that high stature and import upon him. Mostly Oswald was a misfit, a somewhat malleable figure who wanted more than anything to make a statement, to be seen as an important person. His rifle gave him the chance. When fate delivered Kennedy and his chance at 'greatness' practically right into his lap, there was just no way he was going to pass that opportunity up.
 

bongsaway

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True... but my question is if there is any countervailing evidence to disprove Frazier's testimony? There's plenty of supporting evidence, as I outlined above. So if you're going to question what the man said under oath, shouldn't you have some sound basis for doing so?
My basis is I believe oswald when he said he's just a patsy.
 

Cordelier

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My basis is I believe oswald when he said he's just a patsy.

Based on what, though?

The prisons are filled with innocent men. Don't believe me? Just go ask'em.

I know one thing for certain... odds are pretty good President Kennedy's death wasn't a suicide. Someone shot him.... and I haven't seen any evidence that points to anyone else but Oswald. The evidence that points to his guilt is overwhelming. It was either Oswald or some willow wisp conspiracy involving hundreds of people that worked to perfection and hasn't been effectively compromised for almost 60 years. I think I'm going to go with Oswald being the shooter.
 
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Cordelier

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I already told you, I believe oswald was a patsy.

That's your prerogative. From what I've seen, heard, and read about the man, he doesn't seem all that credible to me.
 

Atomic Kid

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I already told you, I believe oswald was a patsy.
But you can't back up that belief anymore with evidence or facts anymore than you can back up a simple belief in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny.
 

Indrob

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That's your prerogative. From what I've seen, heard, and read about the man, he doesn't seem all that credible to me.

And you think the still classified details concealed by our Government is credible?

Those who think the Government can't keep big secrets don't understand how compartmentalization of information works.
 

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But you can't back up that belief anymore with evidence or facts anymore than you can back up a simple belief in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny.

Like your Government sponsored "evidence and fact"?
 

bongsaway

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But you can't back up that belief anymore with evidence or facts anymore than you can back up a simple belief in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny.
No more than anyone can prove oswald was a lone shooter. The majority of americans from the time kennedy was shot believe there was more than one shooter and it still holds true today.
 

bongsaway

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He tried to kill Kennedy's most vocal opponent, General Walker, just months earlier. So how would that seem to fit with your perception of him? You're not understanding the psychoses driving Oswald. Who it was, or what their politics or ideology was. Those things were essentially inconsequential as far as he was concerned. What mattered only to Oswald was that his victim be a figure of such high stature and import that the act of taking that person down would confer that high stature and import upon him. Mostly Oswald was a misfit, a somewhat malleable figure who wanted more than anything to make a statement, to be seen as an important person. His rifle gave him the chance. When fate delivered Kennedy and his chance at 'greatness' practically right into his lap, there was just no way he was going to pass that opportunity up.
Why did he deny shooting kennedy if he was trying to confer high stature and import upon himself? He should have been shouting to the heavens I killed kennedy.
 

bongsaway

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Based on what, though?

The prisons are filled with innocent men. Don't believe me? Just go ask'em.

I know one thing for certain... odds are pretty good President Kennedy's death wasn't a suicide. Someone shot him.... and I haven't seen any evidence that points to anyone else but Oswald. The evidence that points to his guilt is overwhelming. It was either Oswald or some willow wisp conspiracy involving hundreds of people that worked to perfection and hasn't been effectively compromised for almost 60 years. I think I'm going to go with Oswald being the shooter.
No evidence? Oswald being killed by ruby put the chance of oswald saying anything to defend himself out of reach.
 

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And you think the still classified details concealed by our Government is credible?

Those who think the Government can't keep big secrets don't understand how compartmentalization of information works.

I think it's entirely credible. Like I said before in this thread, I think the details that are still classified have more to do with the investigation into the assassination than with the actual assassination itself. Reports, for instance, by foreign and domestic intelligence assets who might still be alive and who could be compromised if the information is revealed. Even if all the documents reveal is that they reported that they had no direct knowledge of Oswald, they could still compromise the asset as a US intelligence source.

Compartmentalization or not, the truth always comes out eventually.
 

Cordelier

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No evidence? Oswald being killed by ruby put the chance of oswald saying anything to defend himself out of reach.

So now you're ascribing a motive for Ruby's actions without having any evidence to support it? People have tried to find a prior link between Ruby and Oswald for the last 57+ years without a conclusive result... so why do you assume such a link existed?
 

bongsaway

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So now you're ascribing a motive for Ruby's actions without having any evidence to support it? People have tried to find a prior link between Ruby and Oswald for the last 57+ years without a conclusive result... so why do you assume such a link existed?
To me without a conclusive result means it's possible, no?
 

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Atomic Kid

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Why did he deny shooting kennedy if he was trying to confer high stature and import upon himself? He should have been shouting to the heavens I killed kennedy.

That was just a part of his persona. He was toying with them. It was a game to him. He knew something they didn't and he would keep it to himself. In his mind that's how he would have control. He would talk about anything else other than the assassination and officer Tibett. And whenever he did give an answer to their questions the answers he gave were demonstrably false.

The Dallas Police Department was wall to wall with print and television media reporters, police officers, FBI and Secret Service agents. It was a complete circus with Oswald being the main ring attraction. And he was enjoying every minute of it.

His grinning smirking face and steady measured voice are not the face and voice of a confused and frightened man who has just found himself being suddenly and wrongly accused of having committed horribly serious crimes. In his mind everything at that point was going according to script.
 

Atomic Kid

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Like your Government sponsored "evidence and fact"?
Unlike your suspicions the chain of custody of the evidence gathered and examined by the Warren Commission is very well documented and actually physically exists. Whereas the evidence, of which you have not presented any herein, cannot claim the same.
 
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