Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over[W:67]

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

That is directly related to co pays. Flat co pays = patient has no vested interest in costs.

I think it is more an issue of Dr.'s/Clinics/Hospitals having no interest in competing on price...nor do they need to since most consumers are tied to their group plan.

 

[ocean515]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

That is directly related to co pays. Flat co pays = patient has no vested interest in costs.

Yes. So the system can charge anything it wants, while the patient is insulated from the cost.

I'd think that would get even worse under a single payer program.

 

[sawdust]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

not true.... If the Dems could have had anything they wanted, we would have universal healthcare. Instead, we had to settle for something designed by the Heritage Foundation.

You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts. As I research the origins of the Obamacare mess I'm finding some interesting articles. The first is this one, describing a Soros funded group of radical socialists with their fingerprints all over it. Revealed for first time: Sordid origins of Obamacare legislation traced to Soros group, marketed by slew of radicals. « Klein Online

Other articles credit Max Baucus who now says it's a mess. ObamaCare Author Max Baucus Sees

An additional article says that a co author is Rob Andrews D NJ. 'Obamacare' Co-Author Defends His Handiwork ... - Fox Nation

The fact is that the only reference I've seen connecting the Heritage Foundation to Obamacare is your post on the internet. Frankly, I don't think that anyone at the Heritage Foundation is crazy or stupid enough to come up with this piece of crap.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Universal... I disagree with. I don't like the idea of government mandated salary cuts for healthcare workers. I don't want a doctor who is an employee of the government.

Neither do I, which is why I said a universal health insurance, not health care run by the government. Let the free market bring down prices while at the same time ensuring that no one has to go bankrupt due to a serious illness or accident.

 

[ReformCollege]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

I think it is more an issue of Dr.'s/Clinics/Hospitals having no interest in competing on price...nor do they need to since most consumers are tied to their group plan.

You're right.... but I was more or lest trying to explain why consumers don't ask about what they are being charged for.

 

[ReformCollege]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Yes. So the system can charge anything it wants, while the patient is insulated from the cost.

I'd think that would get even worse under a single payer program.

I'd agree. But Gimmesometruth ^ also raises the other side of the issue, which is that hospitals have no need to compete on price when they have their customers locked up via insurance agreements.

 

[shrubnose]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

I agree. Scrap it. The only people who "like" Obama care are the people on the left who will support, in a hyper-partisan manner, anything that their side puts to paper. Most free thinking liberals I know dislike Obamacare as much as many conservatives (although for some different reasons)

A big reason I voted for Obama in 2008 was the possibility of UHC and a single payer system. What we got was a bloated piece of crap that continues to serve big business above all.

I say scrap it and work on medicare for all.

I'm down with that idea, the USA needs to go with a single payer system.

 

[ocean515]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

I'd agree. But Gimmesometruth ^ also raises the other side of the issue, which is that hospitals have no need to compete on price when they have their customers locked up via insurance agreements.

I suppose that would depend on the amount the insurance agreements compensate the hospitals for.

Like the auto repair industry, everything tends to be flat rated.

X dollars for a broken toe, Y dollars for a sore throat.

Profit for the hospital then comes down to a volume business, with a higher patient load.

 

[shrubnose]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Buffet is right. Let's scrap it, and start over, but let's not just go back to what we had before "Obamacare" was passed.

The costs were already unsustainable, and had been for quite some time.

The USA needs to go with single payer.
I know that a lot of people are opposed to it, but it can be made to work.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Yes. So the system can charge anything it wants, while the patient is insulated from the cost.

I'd think that would get even worse under a single payer program.

The consumer is not "insulated", we pay for it all eventually....and when it comes to those without insurance, we do pay for that also...at higher levels.

News flash, every country I am aware of with SP have lower costs.

The point still is, Dr.'s/Clinics/Hospitals have no incentive to compete, they have for the most part a captive market.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

I suppose that would depend on the amount the insurance agreements compensate the hospitals for.

Like the auto repair industry, everything tends to be flat rated.

X dollars for a broken toe, Y dollars for a sore throat.

Profit for the hospital then comes down to a volume business, with a higher patient load.

The analogy with auto repair is so faulty, you can get estimates prior to payment, the labor costs are known and are generally very competitive as are parts costs, information is freely available, and you are not locked into having to purchase from a restricted set of service providers.

 

[ocean515]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

The analogy with auto repair is so faulty, you can get estimates prior to payment, the labor costs are known and are generally very competitive as are parts costs, information is freely available, and you are not locked into having to purchase from a restricted set of service providers.

Please don't wade into waters you're obviously unfamiliar with.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Please don't wade into waters you're obviously unfamiliar with.

LOL...you are not a Dr/clinic owner......and I am a mechanic/auto repair bussiness owner......and a consumer of private insurance.

I know you just can't help yourself from getting personal, but try to address the points by countering them.

 

[ocean515]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

LOL...you are not a Dr/clinic owner......and I am a mechanic/auto repair owner......and a consumer of private insurance.

I know you just can't help yourself from getting personal, but try to address the point by counter them.

How do you know I'm not? Are you getting personal?

If you're a mechaninc/auto repair owner, then you will be know the following:

Skill Level B (Factory Time) (.6) MOTOR Time .7

Please decipher.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

How do you know I'm not? Are you getting personal?

Um, because you have mentioned you are in batteries.

If you're a mechaninc/auto repair owner, then you will be know the following:

Skill Level B (Factory Time) (.6) MOTOR Time .7

Please decipher.

Um, b level mechanics have some certification and a few years of experience, dealer time on a service charge 6 tenths of an hour, and time according to to the MOTOR book is 7 tenths of an hour......but I use ON DEMAND.

But again, instead of addressing the points made......you continue with the personal.....oy vey.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

The USA needs to go with single payer.
I know that a lot of people are opposed to it, but it can be made to work.

Of course it can. It works all over the world, after all, and costs a lot less than the system we haven now.

 

[Gina]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

How do you know I'm not? Are you getting personal?

If you're a mechaninc/auto repair owner, then you will be know the following:

Skill Level B (Factory Time) (.6) MOTOR Time .7

Please decipher.

Um, because you have mentioned you are in batteries.

Um, b level mechanics have some certification and a few years of experience, dealer time on a service charge 6 tenths of an hour, and time according to to the MOTOR book is 7 tenths of an hour......but I use ON DEMAND.

But again, instead of addressing the points made......you continue with the personal.....oy vey.

Moderator's Warning:

Donning my velvet gloves for a gentle redirect here: Before this gets any further off-topic, please leave out the personal comments and relate the discussion to the OP. Thank you.

 

[ocean515]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Um, because you have mentioned you are in batteries.

Um, b level mechanics have some certification and a few years of experience, dealer time on a service charge 6 tenths of an hour, and time according to to the MOTOR book is 7 tenths of an hour......but I use ON DEMAND.

But again, instead of addressing the points made......you continue with the personal.....oy vey.

Nothing personal. It would be nice if you stop going there.

I was just attempting to establish some credibility.

The reason I raised the flat rate point is because begining with DRG's, health care compensation has used a flat rate approach to compensation from insurance companies. If you recall, I referred to X dollars for a broken toe, etc..

As to batteries, the equipment I manufacture use them, I don't make them.

But that is another topic.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Nothing personal.

Actually, it was and I am not the only one who noticed.

It would be nice if you stop going there.

I did not initiate it, you did.

I was just attempting to establish some credibility.

You challenged me on a personal level to see if I was a liar about my occupation so as to discredit my observation that your analogy is false in the current system....while you are claiming I am making it personal. Wow.

The reason I raised the flat rate point is because begining with DRG's, health care compensation has used a flat rate approach to compensation from insurance companies. If you recall, I referred to X dollars for a broken toe, etc..

A fee structure for procedures between insurance corps and Dr.s/Clinics are in use.....but as a rule patients are not privy to that data......and again, patients are locked into groups.....and there is no competition within a group.

This has been in place for decades, it has had little to no effect on reducing costs for patients.....because there is little competition or incentive for insurance corps to reduce costs.

As to batteries, the equipment I manufacture use them, I don't make them.

But that is another topic.

I don't really care, other than it undercuts an insinuation that you have superior knowledge.

 

[zimmer]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Abandon the medicare, medicaid and obamacare systems.

Adopt universal healthcare as it is in France!

(Projectile vomit icon)

The government projects the health-care system’s 2013 shortfall will be about €5.1 billion, down from €11.6 billion in 2010. Yet that forecast may be optimistic, since it’s based on the assumption that the economy will grow 0.8 percent—double the European Commission’s estimate.

France’s system “is simply unaffordable, unsustainable, and the manner in which it’s financed is a huge burden on the economy,” says Nicholas Spiro, managing director of Spiro Sovereign Strategy in London. “The French are not being realistic.”

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-03/frances-health-care-system-is-going-broke

Hey! But I hear they're going to make it up on volume.

And...

Yeah... great system. They have a heat wave, the Docs are on vacation, stay on vacation and 14,000 die. No hotter than typical southern weather and you don't see tens of thousands of Americans dying year after year due to it.

 

[ReformCollege]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

The consumer is not "insulated", we pay for it all eventually....and when it comes to those without insurance, we do pay for that also...at higher levels.

News flash, every country I am aware of with SP have lower costs.

The point still is, Dr.'s/Clinics/Hospitals have no incentive to compete, they have for the most part a captive market.

They also have lower levels of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc

Apples to oranges

 

[upsideguy]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.

As I research the origins of the Obamacare mess I'm finding some interesting articles. The first is this one, describing a Soros funded group of radical socialists with their fingerprints all over it. Revealed for first time: Sordid origins of Obamacare legislation traced to Soros group, marketed by slew of radicals. « Klein Online

Other articles credit Max Baucus who now says it's a mess. ObamaCare Author Max Baucus Sees

An additional article says that a co author is Rob Andrews D NJ. 'Obamacare' Co-Author Defends His Handiwork ... - Fox Nation

The fact is that the only reference I've seen connecting the Heritage Foundation to Obamacare is your post on the internet. Frankly, I don't think that anyone at the Heritage Foundation is crazy or stupid enough to come up with this piece of crap.

...as you said, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

If you never heard the many of the precepts, particularly the concept of the individual mandate, were founded, suggested and advocated by the Heritage Foundation, then I suggest you are simply ill-informed. The concept of the individual mandate, the notion that everyone MUST have their own health insurance, purchased from private companies, is the crux of the ACA is very much a conservative idea.

If you have never seen this on the Internet, then you are either spending all of your time on political porn sites (Klein Online / world net daily being one of the biggest and baddest of political porn sites) or simply have yet to master Google (I'm sure your local community college has a class)... or you can challenge me, I will hit you with a ton cites (want more?)

Ironic challenge: Affordable Care Act's principles were originally conservative | PennLive.com
How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate - Forbes
Health insurance mandate began as a Republican idea - The Boston Globe
The Tortuous History of Conservatives and the Individual Mandate - Forbes
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=4896&type=0

Of course, whatever the Heritage Foundation failed to provide you can thank the last Republican candidate for President in helping to fill in the blanks with the successful implementation of the ACA prototype in Massachusetts.

If ObamaCare Is So Bad, How Does RomneyCare Survive? - Forbes
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/15/us/politics/comparing-two-health-care-laws.html?_r=0

The Baccus "authorship" of the ACA is no more original than any states "authorship" of legislation that was given to it by ALEC. Sorry, any Democrat that claims ownership of the intellectual property of Affordable Care Act is guilty of plagiarism.

 

[Fisher]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

The consumer is not "insulated", we pay for it all eventually....and when it comes to those without insurance, we do pay for that also...at higher levels.

News flash, every country I am aware of with SP have lower costs.

The point still is, Dr.'s/Clinics/Hospitals have no incentive to compete, they have for the most part a captive market.

I don't think that is true in urban areas as far as doctors and clinics, but it is my understanding that some states do not allow competing hospitals to be built within the same geographic area (i.e city/county) as existing hospitals unless they can demonstrate there is a need for an additional hospital, basically giving the existing place(s) a monopoly, at least as far as emergency care.

 

[Objective Voice]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Warren Buffett: Scrap Obamacare and Start Over | The Weekly Standard

"Healthcare costs in the United States are like a tapeworm eating at our economic body.

"Those words come from famed investor Warren Buffett, who said he would scrap Obamacare and start all over.

"'We have a health system that, in terms of costs, is really out of control,' he added. 'And if you take this line and you project what has been happening into the future, we will get less and less competitive. So we need something else.'

"Buffett insists that without changes to Obamacare average citizens will suffer.

"'Attack the costs first, and then worry about expanding coverage,' he said. 'I would much rather see another plan that really attacks costs. And I think that's what the American public wants to see. I mean, the American public is not behind this bill.'"

Did anybody bother to source the OP? Because it's completely WRONG!!!

A complete and utter LIE! This is NOT what Warren Buffett said. He wasn't talking about ObamaCare at all. He was referring to our health care system in general pre-ObamaCare.

Here's a link to the actual CNBC video. Here is the video again as reported by the HuffingtonPost.com with accompanying news article UNEDITTED. In fact, when asked if given a choice would he vote for the PPACA, Buffett said, "if given a choice between what we have ("Plan A" - our current health care system) and 'Plan B' - the PPACA bill (before it became law), he'd take 'Plan B' but he'd prefer a 'Plan B' but he'd like to see a 'Plan C' that brought down the cost of health care."

 

[sawdust]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

...as you said, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

If you never heard the many of the precepts, particularly the concept of the individual mandate, were founded, suggested and advocated by the Heritage Foundation, then I suggest you are simply ill-informed. The concept of the individual mandate, the notion that everyone MUST have their own health insurance, purchased from private companies, is the crux of the ACA is very much a conservative idea.

If you have never seen this on the Internet, then you are either spending all of your time on political porn sites (Klein Online / world net daily being one of the biggest and baddest of political porn sites) or simply have yet to master Google (I'm sure your local community college has a class)... or you can challenge me, I will hit you with a ton cites (want more?)

Ironic challenge: Affordable Care Act's principles were originally conservative | PennLive.com
How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate - Forbes
Health insurance mandate began as a Republican idea - The Boston Globe
The Tortuous History of Conservatives and the Individual Mandate - Forbes
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=4896&type=0

Of course, whatever the Heritage Foundation failed to provide you can thank the last Republican candidate for President in helping to fill in the blanks with the successful implementation of the ACA prototype in Massachusetts.

If ObamaCare Is So Bad, How Does RomneyCare Survive? - Forbes
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/11/15/us/politics/comparing-two-health-care-laws.html?_r=0

The Baccus "authorship" of the ACA is no more original than any states "authorship" of legislation that was given to it by ALEC. Sorry, any Democrat that claims ownership of the intellectual property of Affordable Care Act is guilty of plagiarism.

You act as if the individual mandate is all there is to Obamacare. Nothing could be further from the truth. That concept could be put down in a couple pages and Obamacare consists of thousands of pages of taxes, regulations and mandates. I don't doubt that the concept could have originated at the Heritage Foundation. Lots of people work at that think tank and lots of different suggestions came from them. Republicans are full of bad ideas. So are Democrats. That's one I don't agree with however, the totality of Obamacare was not authored by Heritage, they do not support it in it's present form and neither does anyone else who has to deal with it's expense or complexities. Obamacare is strictly a Democrat bill, Democrats own it and if they had any sense they'd listen to the American people and scrap it.

One fact is inescapable. The Heritage Foundation did nor write Obamacare, nor did they force it on Democrats or they responsible for the bill which is poorly conceived, poorly written and so far poorly executed.

With Respect to Romneycare, I don't like it either but I don't have the same objective to it that I do to Obamacare because I believe the constitution authorized the states to deal with issues like health insurance. If they like it or want it in Mass. So be it.