War on Terror is bogus

[Pacridge]

You make it sound like just because someone isn't there that they don't have anything invested in this war. That's untrue and a very shallow statement. Just because a person is not on the front lines does not mean they are not emotionally attached to those that are. A coach on the sidelines doesn't play in the game but he still suffers from the loss.

I'm simply asking what exactly is the involvement? Cheering from the sidelines and coaching aren't exactly one in the same, are they? I'm not saying the only way to support it is to enlist and join the front lines. I'm just saying we seem to have a lot of citizens who scream their support loudly. Yet their only real investment is the purchase of a 3.00 magnet to attach to the bummer of their SUV.

 

[Thor]

Not sure how I'm crossing any lines or even tip-toeing up to any. Which I guess could be part of the problem?

I supported the assault on Afghanistan. I just didn’t follow the logic of attacking a country that didn’t attack us. And while I may not be in favor of the Iraq war, make no mistake that I do support the troops. My company, which my wife and I own, sent several care packages to the National Guard unit from our state. We’ve sent numerous walkie talkie radios, GPS units, binoculars and night vision monoculars. As well as “goodie boxes” with beef jerky, snacks, and personal items such as shampoos and soaps. My company spent more doing this last year then we spent on our federal and state taxes combined.

We’ve also attended memorial services for 13 fallen service members. Went to one this past Tuesday. Sgt. Adam J. Plumondore, who died in roadside bombing attack in Mosul Feb. 16th.

Not supporting the war and not supporting the troops is not the same thing.

By the way, I applaud you on your efforts that your Company made . Great job!

Sorry for the loss of your friend. He died a hero to some of us.

 

[Pacridge]

By the way, I applaud you on your efforts that your Company made . Great job!

Sorry for the loss of your friend. He died a hero to some of us.

He wasn't a friend. I never met him or anyone in his family. Just think these people losing loved one deserve our support.

And yes, Afghanistan didn’t attack us but there was a clear (no faulty Intel needed to make the) connection that the government of Afghanistan was involved and did support the terrorist. Not to mention Afghanistan harbored the main planners of the 9-11 attack. As the Deulfer report states, Iraq had nothing to do with it.

 

[Contrarian]

But Brits never say boastful things about our country, like "Britain is God's chosen country" etc, because we know of our mistakes of the past. Most Americans however deny their real past and follow the Hollywood version of history sugar coated in patriotism. Name me one Hollywood Movie where the US was the bad guy? Has there been a movie of the slaughter of Native Americans in hands of the US army?
I have no denials about Britain's past evils.

Anyway I like Americans... well some of them.

That is exactly what the rational Americans are trying to stop. W and his gang are trying to shift the fundamental premise that founded this country. This is a "secular" country, and one of the main we broke away from you guys was because we didn't want to live under the rule of the Church of England. To say that Britain doesn't operate under a mandate from God seems abit odd, seeing the Queen is the head of the Church, and you have that quaint little saying..."God save the Queen" and all that rubbish. The difference here is that our President is trying to ascend to that lofty level. I understand He and God trade phone calls regularly and they are trying to work that issue out!

As far as movies go, you'd have to ask Batman since he seems to be the movie historian. I can recall a movie with Sean Penn and Michael J Fox that was less then flattering to American military presence in Viet Nam. As far as the slaughter of Native Americans there have been many, I can recall Kevin Costners, "Dances with Wolves", and Dustin Hoffman's "Little Big Man" among them... have any more Batman?

We like you guys as well, but the lesson to be learned here is that there are people of any nationality that are off the wall. Crazy is crazy regardless of the flag you sleep under.

 

[GarzaUK]

Cute. Too old to sign up now. Did when I was 17. If I could go, I would. As would my brother who served in the first Gulf War.
You know Garza, you put me in mind of Marvin the Martian. The little tough guy in the Warner Brothers cartoon - I will shoot you with my la-zor.
Difference is he carries a gun and actually threatens the use of force.

My apolgises, you just sounded like a teenager you know. It is a pity you mock me (camparing me to a cartoon) because I don't have the same ideals as you. But with some people in here, it seems it passes as politics these days. I desire peace, war as a absolute last resort, if that makes me a cartoon character then so be it.

 

[Contrarian]

He wasn't a friend. I never met him or anyone in his family. Just think these people losing loved one deserve our support.

And yes, Afghanistan didn’t attack us but there was a clear (no faulty Intel needed to make the) connection that the government of Afghanistan was involved and did support the terrorist. Not to mention Afghanistan harbored the main planners of the 9-11 attack. As the Deulfer report states, Iraq had nothing to do with it.

I agree with Pac 100% on all points. Against the particular action is not against the troops OR anti-American (as many right wingers like to claim). Pac is a person of personal commitment and action and should be commended. This relates to the back and forth I had with Fantasea in the abortion thread. If you want people not to have abortions and have the children, then step up to the plate yourself and adopt one or two.

As I've said before. You're a good man Pac

 

[GarzaUK]

That is exactly what the rational Americans are trying to stop. W and his gang are trying to shift the fundamental premise that founded this country. This is a "secular" country, and one of the main we broke away from you guys was because we didn't want to live under the rule of the Church of England. To say that Britain doesn't operate under a mandate from God seems abit odd, seeing the Queen is the head of the Church, and you have that quaint little saying..."God save the Queen" and all that rubbish. The difference here is that our President is trying to ascend to that lofty level. I understand He and God trade phone calls regularly and they are trying to work that issue out!

First off, please don't call my national anthem as rubbish. We pretty much seclular in all but name. Our Prime Minister would be cruified if he mentioned God in his speech. The UK is ranked along with Russia and South Korea as being the least religious country in the world. We never ever say "God bless Britain." Prayer in school is wiped out, except in Northern Ireland - but it is getting wiped out too.

As far as movies go, you'd have to ask Batman since he seems to be the movie historian. I can recall a movie with Sean Penn and Michael J Fox that was less then flattering to American military presence in Viet Nam. As far as the slaughter of Native Americans there have been many, I can recall Kevin Costners, "Dances with Wolves", and Dustin Hoffman's "Little Big Man" among them... have any more Batman?

I've seen movies like Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, havent seen dances with Wolves. However I also seen a Fox News piece dismissing these anti-American movies as rubbish and false. As I understand it Americans watch Fox "News" more than any other news channel. That could influence those people that these movies are false and live in denial of those past evil deeds, that is what I'm trying to say.

We like you guys as well, but the lesson to be learned here is that there are people of any nationality that are off the wall. Crazy is crazy regardless of the flag you sleep under.

I totally agree!

 

[Pacridge]

I agree with Pac 100% on all points. Against the particular action is not against the troops OR anti-American (as many right wingers like to claim).

I do not get this. The masses in the right seem to think that anyone who believes the Iraq war was a mistake, they’re somehow un-American. I can only assume that they get this BS from listening to the likes of Coulter and Rush. Coulter makes statements like "Even Islamic terrorist don't hate America the way Liberals do." Rush recently told a group of soldiers in Afghanistan that the liberals in America were upset that the advances in battlefield medical services have lead to a decrease battlefield fatalities. According to Rush liberals not only hate America they want our soldiers to die in greater numbers. Nice one Rush. I liked him better when he was stuffing his face with oxycontin.

 

[Batman]

My apolgises, you just sounded like a teenager you know.

It's a wise man who in manhood keeps the heart of a child.

It is a pity you mock me

It was more of an analogy.

 

[Repubteen]

You French and Britain people crack me up. You sit there over in England and France and just say how bad we Americans are and yet you didn't go through 9/11 you weren't in the same country and you didn't feel our pain. You sit there and say America is awful and stuck up.Your citizen weren't the ones getting there heads cut off then shown to the TV. So dont tell me this war isn't necessary because it is . And if people like Bill Clinton had the Balls to stand up to these terrorists this never would have happened. The 93 Bombing should have been a wake up call along with the the Cole and embassies. But Clinton didn't have the Guts to go after Bin Laden, and it would have been a great time to go after Bin laden because the economy was so great.But don't sit over there and preach to us , if it wasn't for us you(France) wouldn't be around.GOD BLESS THE USA

 

[GarzaUK]

But Clinton didn't have the Guts to go after Bin Laden, and it would have been a great time to go after Bin laden because the economy was so great.But don't sit over there and preach to us , if it wasn't for us you(France) wouldn't be around.GOD BLESS THE USA

Yeah and Bush and done a great job getting Bin Laden hasn't he? Funny how the man responsible for the greatest crime in the US isn't captured yet Bushdecided to take a tiny detour in Iraq. But I suppose Bush "Doesn't think about him that often." as he said.

If it wasnt for us (and France) they would be no United States of America. :naughty You seem to foget that white Americans and white Canadians are from European decent, United States roots are European (maybe that annoys you in a way.)

Why would God bless a particular country? Aren't we all God's people? Or did God tell you or a particular American that he drives an SUV?

God I hate being reduced to this stupid country bickering crap. But the arrogance of some people astound me.

 

[Repubteen]

But I suppose Bush "Doesn't think about him that often." as he said.

Are you a moron do you actually think GWB isn't thinking and looking for Bin Laden. Do you think he is actually going to tell the Public where he is looking for him and if he is looking for him. The terrorists do watch are TV channels.....And if they think "oh he's not looking for us" they're more apt to taking more risks when traveling around?And Iraq wasn't a detour, Bush is going after any nation who aids and harbors terrorists and Iraq was one of those countries.

 

[GarzaUK]

Are you a moron do you actually think GWB isn't thinking and looking for Bin Laden. Do you think he is actually going to tell the Public where he is looking for him and if he is looking for him. The terrorists do watch are TV channels.....And if they think "oh he's not looking for us" they're more apt to taking more risks when traveling around?

Funnily enough my girlfriend did call me a moron the other week lol. Seriously though if I had told you 1 week after 9/11 that Bin Laden wouldn't be found in 3.5 years you would call me crazy. Why didn't Bush swarm the Tora Bora caves with troops, surround the murderer? Why is there more troops in Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11 than in Afghanistan? Why is there still Al-Quieda troops in the Tora Bora region? As for more apt to taking more risks, these terrorists are not dumb. Let me tell you the Iraq invasion was a blessing for Bin Laden, it took the heat from him, plus he had another front to kill Americans. The war that Bin Laden wanted is going very well for him.

And Iraq wasn't a detour, Bush is going after any nation who aids and harbors terrorists and Iraq was one of those countries.

*Shudder* Please tell me where is your proof? Saddam = secular (non-religious) tyrant, Al-queida (Islamic Fundalmentalists) want a purely religious state. I bet these two didn't have barbeques and beers together, in fact they hated each other. In this website I have given you so many links to disprove this link.

Pakistan harbours terrorists, Saudi Arabia harbours terrorists, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Libya, Egypt, Sudan. These harbour probably more terrorists than secular Iraq ever did.

WMD's? What WMD's? Did WMD's attack America on 9/11?

 

[LiberalFINGER]

I'm not on the front lines, but sometimes you don't need to be in order to be in the game.

I watched my shipmates head over to the gulf while I was still in uniform and then I ended up being shifted over to the IRR. I didn't get my chance to fight. Now, instead of actively participating in the war, I make contributions in more intangible ways.

I keep in touch with the soldiers/sailors I know in the combat zone and keep encouraging them to get their job done and get home.

I pray for the guard and reserve that had to leave their jobs behind.

I pick up the slack when I come across a position that has been left vacant by a citizen soldier called off to war, even if it means that I need to get off my ass and do his/her job.

There are very few people who aren't affected by this war.

 

[Pacridge]

You French and Britain people crack me up. You sit there over in England and France and just say how bad we Americans are and yet you didn't go through 9/11 you weren't in the same country and you didn't feel our pain. You sit there and say America is awful and stuck up.Your citizen weren't the ones getting there heads cut off then shown to the TV. So dont tell me this war isn't necessary because it is . And if people like Bill Clinton had the Balls to stand up to these terrorists this never would have happened. The 93 Bombing should have been a wake up call along with the the Cole and embassies. But Clinton didn't have the Guts to go after Bin Laden, and it would have been a great time to go after Bin laden because the economy was so great.But don't sit over there and preach to us , if it wasn't for us you(France) wouldn't be around.GOD BLESS THE USA

I would find your inability to get facts and history accurate humorous if it weren't so depressingly obvious that you believe the partisan rhetoric you're parroting.

 

[Batman]

Seriously though if I had told you 1 week after 9/11 that Bin Laden wouldn't be found in 3.5 years you would call me crazy.

Although the situations are not the same, the example of Eric Robert Rudolph hiding out in and around the mountains of NC/TN show how difficult it can be to find someone who is hiding. This area he was thought to be hiding in was a smaller square mile area than where bin Laden is reportedly in. It took 5 years to capture Rudolph.
Full Story

 

[Repubteen]

[FONT = Times New Roman]xxx[/FONT] Yea, okay, we killed SOME, but compared to the innocent men, women, and children we also killed, i dont think it was worth it. There are others ways of stop terrorism other than declare war on countries. Countries aren't terrorists, individuals are terrorists.

How? You tell me how we should deal with terrorist?
You say some like it's not important killing one of Al Qaeda'a top officials could be like killing 100 al qaeda members.
Heres just a small list;
Mohammed Atef:Egyptian,military chief:Killed in US airstrike
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed:Kuwaiti,suspected mastermind of 9/11:Captured
Abu Zubaydahalestinian-Saudi,terrorist coordinator:Captured
AbDul Rahim Al-Nashiri,saudi,persian Gulf Operations Chief:captured
And I have 26 more if you would like to see them!

 

[Pacridge]

Although the situations are not the same, the example of Eric Robert Rudolph hiding out in and around the mountains of NC/TN show how difficult it can be to find someone who is hiding. This area he was thought to be hiding in was a smaller square mile area than where bin Laden is reportedly in. It took 5 years to capture Rudolph.
Full Story

And was the entire US military looking for Rudolph? Kind like comparing apples and jet engines.

 

[anomaly]

How? You tell me how we should deal with terrorist?
You say some like it's not important killing one of Al Qaeda'a top officials could be like killing 100 al qaeda members.
Heres just a small list;
Mohammed Atef:Egyptian,military chief:Killed in US airstrike
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed:Kuwaiti,suspected mastermind of 9/11:Captured
Abu Zubaydahalestinian-Saudi,terrorist coordinator:Captured
AbDul Rahim Al-Nashiri,saudi,persian Gulf Operations Chief:captured
And I have 26 more if you would like to see them!

We invaded Iraq, we've killed over 15,000 civilians, and then we capture terrorists who came into Iraq after we invaded. And most of the terrorists came into Iraq to fight us, and kill 1500 US soldiers. So the lives of over 16,000 innocent people are less important than the lives of 100 people?

 

[Batman]

And was the entire US military looking for Rudolph? Kind like comparing apples and jet engines.

He was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list just like Osama.

Since you missed or rufused to see it:

Although the situations are not the same, the example of Eric Robert Rudolph hiding out in and around the mountains of NC/TN show how difficult it can be to find someone who is hiding. This area he was thought to be hiding in was a smaller square mile area than where bin Laden is reportedly in. It took 5 years to capture Rudolph.

How did I know you would respond that way? OH, THAT'S RIGHT! Bush is the President.

 

[Pacridge]

He was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list just like Osama.

Since you missed or rufused to see it:



How did I know you would respond that way? OH, THAT'S RIGHT! Bush is the President.

Yes, and one guy has the entire US military looking for him, the other strictly law enforcement officers. There's kind of a big difference. And it has nothing to do with who is or isn't President. Your comparison just doesn't work.

And yes, I saw where you said "Although the situations are not the same" But you making comparisons that don't equate, not even slightly. It's like identifying two lottery winners and not mentioning one matched all six numbers, winning millions. While the other hit a scratch-off for 100 bucks. Both lottery winners? Yes. The same? Not even slightly. Just like both your guys are on the FBI list.

 

[Batman]

And yes, I saw where you said "Although the situations are not the same"

You did?

The same? Not even slightly.

Go to bed.

 

[Repubteen]

then we capture terrorists who came into Iraq after we invaded. And most of the terrorists came into Iraq to fight us, and kill 1500 US soldiers.

OK, first off that is the brilliance behind GWB's plan. By invading Iraq the terrorists feel threatened so they come to Iraq to fight us.Instead of us going to have to find them. Also I support our troops 100% but in wars people do die.....And every life is precious but would you rather have a solider(who when they sign up has a risk of dieing)or an innocent US civilian by not attacking terrorists? And you still haven't answered my question... How would you deal with terrorism?

Oh and one more thing how many of those "16,000" were killed by shootings in mosques or by suicide bombers?

 

[Contrarian]

OK, first off that is the brilliance behind GWB's plan. By invading Iraq the terrorists feel threatened so they come to Iraq to fight us.Instead of us going to have to find them. Also I support our troops 100% but in wars people do die.....And every life is precious but would you rather have a solider(who when they sign up has a risk of dieing)or an innocent US civilian by not attacking terrorists? And you still haven't answered my question... How would you deal with terrorism?

I am pleased to see what an expert in National Defense strategy you are at your ripe old age! More "terrorists" hang their hats in places like Saudi Arabia, Syria, Pakistan and brace yourself ....... Europe and the US! Where these well educated, English speaking STUDENTS are attending our colleges. Read about all the Iraqi's who attacked the World Trade Center and Pentagon... OH! I'm sorry, there weren't any! The "brilliant" Bush plan had nothing to do with fightinh terrorism on it's own grounds because if it did, we wouldn't have diverted troops from Afghanistan and we would have forced our way into Pakistan (the main Roach Hotel) and put big time pressure on the Saudi's. In one breath, the administration claims that we are "freeing the Iraqi people from a brutal Dictator", on the other we "are fighting terrorism".. did I hear an inconsistency?

I agree, we should fight them where they live and not here. BUT Iraq isn't where they live and those that are coming there to fight the great Satan Infidel (that would be us) are the tip of the iceberg. How nieve can you be? THEY ARE ALREADY HERE! They are living in our communities, going to our universities, living off money supplied by rich guys in Saudi Arabia etc., which was made by selling oil to our fat asses to fuel our SUV's. They realize that Americans have a very short attention span, and they will wait until that one day when nobody is looking at domestic security (Because we are fighting them on their grounds - right Mr. President?) and bomb 10 malls in the heartland (red states perhaps?) to make us realize we have not been fighting this "war" properly.

Mr. Bush, only bowed to political pressure in appointing a single head of the intelligence community in this country despite the findings and recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. He fails to realize that the interagency infighting and pettiness is what gave him the results we got (9/11 while we were watching and no WMDs in Iraq). Both big embarrasments for the President and the country. So please think again about the "brilliance" of the "plan"... whatever good results he is getting (except the Iraqi election) is just dumb luck.

To answer you question about dealing with it.... with putting tons of reasources into intelligence and switching to a brains vs brawn fight. We don't have enough Arab, Farci translators to translate intercepts. We don't have enough on the ground intelliegence operatives in these countries. We do an absolutely crappy job of screening people coming to the US on visas. Hell, we don't even inforce their leaving when their visa expires. Our borders are wide open. I could go on and on... but the real crime of our involvement in Iraq, is that we are fighting in the wrong place.

 

[Pacridge]

You did?

Yes, I read your post. Just because I disagree with the point your trying to make, it doesn't mean I neither read nor understood your position.

Go to bed.

Huh? Is this some wierd, twisted sort of offer? If so, seriously Cat Womans more my speed. Though sadly Halle Barry's not returning my calls.