War on Terror is bogus

[Squawker]

Anomaly wrote:

First off, the very idea of a war on terror is pretty bogus. That's about as specific and effective as declaring a war on the Atlantic Ocean.

That’s terrific, we can stop the silly “war on poverty”, “war on drugs”, and “war on smoking” --- Works for me.

There are few ways to combat the ever expanding American Empire,

Empire? I didn’t realize we owned half the world we helped with our blood and money. That is really nice to know – real estate is a great investment for our seniors, don’t ya think?

And liberal1 is right that Bush is killing innocents in the middle east. I believe the civilian death toll is around 16000-17000, and 1500 Americans have died.

I did a quick fact check and came up with “claims” and “estimates” from BBC and AL Jazeera type outlets. Nothing confirmed. It would be pretty hard to separate innocent people from former bathists and Saddam sympathizers.

 

[Thor]

i dont know how to use the "quote" button so bare with me

"Please share how we can detour terrorism."

We do have special forces, like Delta and Rainbow who are trained in anit-terrorism tatics. Had we utalized them rather than our whole ****ing, we would have saved a lot of lives, on both sides. Yes, war in Iraq was, to some extent, inevitable, but we could have done in the way I have mentonded. But dont my word for. When Most of Europe/UN dont support the war, I think we ****ed up. But, then again, war is a lose/lose situation. People will die. There's is nothing glorious about that.

"Are American lives more important than an Iraqi lives?"

That's a matter of opinion. I dont know about you, but I believe in the age-old method of "every man is created equal". So to that, no, Americans are not more important. We are equal. Like I said before, we could have went about things a little bit better than we did in Iraq. And as far as this talk about us going into Iran, that's another bogus war. They got nukes, we got nukes. Lazze-faire, let them be. Their nukes, their business.

I think I'm going to throw up! The day we ask for permission from the EU or UN is a very sad day in American history.

Nukes in the hands of a responsible nation is one thing. Nukes in the hands of a nation that classify any one that is not Muslim as an Infidel that must be killed. Bad ideal.

 

[Contrarian]

Sorry, it's so long, I'm late to the discussion........

I too, find it interesting that nobody seems to know about support for the IRA from the USA. I do remember some years ago the British government formally requesting that the US government do something to stop this. It was not stopped.

Surely terrorism is terrorism? Or is it only terrorism when it impacts on your own citizens?

Naughty and Garza, you are both correct. There has existed a support underground in the US for many years (50+) which has been centered in traditional Irish strongholds including Boston, New York City and Chicago. The reason that it has not been exposed as it should have been is because of the passive support it has received from the Catholic Church which is politically powerful in the US, but extremely powerful in the cities I mentioned. It is not uncommon for funds raised by various "Emerald Societies", or "Ancient Order of the Hibernians" to be diverted into funding the IRA. A quick drive around the Irish neighborhoods in these cities will reveal tee shirts and bumper stickers supporting the Catholic Irish of the north and (in)directly the IRA. I have personally witnessed the "passing of the hat" to support the "patriots" (IRA) in Nothern Ireland, in local Irish Pubs. Ironically, the Police Departments of these cities, has traditionally been run and manned by Irish immigrants, who have been brainwashed by their ancestors and religion to believe that the terroristic actions are justified by God. Authorities fail to aggressively clamp down on what is going on in their own union halls. The real scary part is that these people (terrorists) use their religions like football jerseys to align with their "team" to defeat (kill) the other guys, while forgetting what the base moral values of their beliefs should be.

You are also right, that the US (and the UK, France etc) have practiced selective enforcement. People are getting bombed to hell in the Sudan, but because they present no commercial opportunity for any of the countries I mentioned, no one is helping them.... yet because it was really good PR, we couldn't stop throwing money, manpower and assets at the Tsunami victims because it was high profile. Syria has been a "terrorist" nation for as long as I can remember, but the Syrian President didn't threaten W's Daddy and therefore got a "pass". We also happened to seed our own terrorist fields when we (yes the US) provided support TO Saddam Hussein and Iraq in their war against Iran. We also provided money and arms to the Taliban in Afghanistan, despite their lovely tradition of beating and killing insubordinate women in soccer stadiums. The US is to blame in part, but let's not get so self righteous when speaking about the Brits and the French... there is plenty of sh*t to go around and they are far from innocent.

And Vauge, I respectfully disagree with your premise: "Bush has stated NUMEROUS times that this is not a war against Muslims or Arabs, but against Terrorism."

As any good politician, there is direct language and implied language. If the President was not consciously or sub-consciously leading a holy war against the Arab Muslims, he would try to tone down the religious rhetoric and the implication that "God" is on the side of the righteous Christian people of the US. If he is as smart as his supports purport, he would realize that his constant God rants are inflammatory to the crazies and the common Arab alike. He has failed to position the conflict (in the minds of the Arab world, and others) as the "civilized people of the world against a band of crazy bastards"... instead it looks like Christians & Jews against Islam, and if we're too blind to see it, we will ultimately lose all the support of rational "moderates".

 

[Schweddy]

If the President was not consciously or sub-consciously leading a holy war against the Arab Muslims, he would try to tone down the religious rhetoric and the implication that "God" is on the side of the righteous Christian people of the US.

It is amazing how his words are taken WAY out of context to fullfill some phantom idea that Bush is against Arabs or Muslims because he believes in God.

Every prodistant would tell you the same thing, "God speaks through me." - meaning that they should act like a child of God and do what they believe to be Gods will as stated in the Bible. Some folks call it witnessing, some folks call it acting & being a Christian.

 

[Batman]

Sorry, it's so long, I'm late to the discussion........



Naughty and Garza, you are both correct. There has existed a support underground in the US for many years (50+) which has been centered in traditional Irish strongholds including Boston, New York City and Chicago. The reason that it has not been exposed as it should have been is because of the passive support it has received from the Catholic Church which is politically powerful in the US, but extremely powerful in the cities I mentioned. It is not uncommon for funds raised by various "Emerald Societies", or "Ancient Order of the Hibernians" to be diverted into funding the IRA. A quick drive around the Irish neighborhoods in these cities will reveal tee shirts and bumper stickers supporting the Catholic Irish of the north and (in)directly the IRA. I have personally witnessed the "passing of the hat" to support the "patriots" (IRA) in Nothern Ireland, in local Irish Pubs. Ironically, the Police Departments of these cities, has traditionally been run and manned by Irish immigrants, who have been brainwashed by their ancestors and religion to believe that the terroristic actions are justified by God. Authorities fail to aggressively clamp down on what is going on in their own union halls. The real scary part is that these people (terrorists) use their religions like football jerseys to align with their "team" to defeat (kill) the other guys, while forgetting what the base moral values of their beliefs should be.

You are also right, that the US (and the UK, France etc) have practiced selective enforcement. People are getting bombed to hell in the Sudan, but because they present no commercial opportunity for any of the countries I mentioned, no one is helping them.... yet because it was really good PR, we couldn't stop throwing money, manpower and assets at the Tsunami victims because it was high profile. Syria has been a "terrorist" nation for as long as I can remember, but the Syrian President didn't threaten W's Daddy and therefore got a "pass". We also happened to seed our own terrorist fields when we (yes the US) provided support TO Saddam Hussein and Iraq in their war against Iran. We also provided money and arms to the Taliban in Afghanistan, despite their lovely tradition of beating and killing insubordinate women in soccer stadiums. The US is to blame in part, but let's not get so self righteous when speaking about the Brits and the French... there is plenty of sh*t to go around and they are far from innocent.

And Vauge, I respectfully disagree with your premise: "Bush has stated NUMEROUS times that this is not a war against Muslims or Arabs, but against Terrorism."

As any good politician, there is direct language and implied language. If the President was not consciously or sub-consciously leading a holy war against the Arab Muslims, he would try to tone down the religious rhetoric and the implication that "God" is on the side of the righteous Christian people of the US. If he is as smart as his supports purport, he would realize that his constant God rants are inflammatory to the crazies and the common Arab alike. He has failed to position the conflict (in the minds of the Arab world, and others) as the "civilized people of the world against a band of crazy bastards"... instead it looks like Christians & Jews against Islam, and if we're too blind to see it, we will ultimately lose all the support of rational "moderates".

Wow! Having lived in Chicago for 30 years and having a friend on the CPD for 12, I have to say I've never heard, seen, or experienced this society that is so secretive yet somehow known to you. As for the rest, your first name isn't Oliver by chance is it?

 

[Batman]

A quick drive around the Irish neighborhoods in these cities will reveal tee shirts and bumper stickers supporting the Catholic Irish of the north and (in)directly the IRA. I have personally witnessed the "passing of the hat" to support the "patriots" (IRA) in Nothern Ireland, in local Irish Pubs.

Patriot Games 1992 starring Harrison Ford.

That's a movie - not a documentary.

 

[Contrarian]

It is amazing how his words are taken WAY out of context to fullfill some phantom idea that Bush is against Arabs or Muslims because he believes in God.

Every prodistant would tell you the same thing, "God speaks through me." - meaning that they should act like a child of God and do what they believe to be Gods will as stated in the Bible. Some folks call it witnessing, some folks call it acting & being a Christian.

Vauge, I think you are missing the point entirely. It is not what he sincerely means or believes that is the problem. Haven't you heard the old expression "Perception is everything"? Well, lets get some simple facts on the table: (1) Bush is the President and he is viewed as the representative of the American people. (2) He is a devoutly religious man who isn't afraid to flaunt that. (3) We are dealing with some seriously disturbed religious zealots who believe that anyone who doesn't drink their brand of Kool Aid deserves to die. (4) The crazy people live with close to a billion other people who share the same religion and are very impressionable and easily convinced that we are the bad guys both ideologically and religiously. (5) The only people more evil (to them) than the US are the Jews (precursor to Christianity).

Now, understanding the facts, a smart person would say... "Let's not insight the crazy people!" As the President, chief strategist, chief diplomat etc., you would think he could comprehend this. Everytime he give a religious sound bite to the nice people at Al Jazeera, it only throws gasoline on a fire that needs to be put out. Why is that so hard to see?

 

[Contrarian]

Patriot Games That's a movie - not a documentary.

I hate to break it to you Batman, but art imitates life. It happens everyday in those cities and sympathsizers have been arrested for these activities. It may not happen in your neck of the woods, but there is more than one firehouse or police precinct in NYC with a "Fifth Provence" banner in it. If I had the energy I would research IRA related arrests etc in those cities for you, but I don't. By the way, I also believe that the Justice Dept has a task force also investigating the connection.

 

[LiberalFINGER]

Just a couple things I'd like to throw out there for clarification.

On nuclear weapons:

First, it is not hypocritical to be the first nation to drop nuclear weapons and then come to the sudden realization that the result is catastrophic and that you don't ever want to see it happen again.

Second, we have found that nuclear deterent force and MAD, regardless of how rediculous it may appear to be, actually works. Notice that the USSR and the US did not destroy the world.

Conclusion. Nuclear war sucks. We don't want anyone else starting one. We want to have the most nukes so people who think that nuclear war might be a good idea will realize that THEY WILL LOSE.

On DELTA and Rainbow:

DELTA = Real
Rainbow = Fiction

Tom Clancy has an uncanny ability to make odd-ball predictions that are extremely close to real life, but in the end, his work is still (with few exceptions) fiction.

 

[GarzaUK]

You are an absolute pacifist that would not, or could not, pee with his pants on fire out of fear it would get the fire upset. I don't know what else can be said about your views.

I despise war. Do you not despise it? Living in Northern Ireland I have experienced first hand what terrorism is like, you have experienced it through the tv screen. Thankfully Northern Ireland is sick of war and guess what... after 30 years of bloody war with terrorism - we pursued peace with them and we got it, there has been no war for 10 years... and thank god for that.

It is easy saying war is great, this war is good from your armchair thousands of miles away. I just wonder if American familes who lost a loved one through the war in Iraq feel the same way.

I'm no pacifist, I agreed with the war in Afganistan and I would have fought World War 2 in a heartbeat. There is some aspects of the War of Iraq, that most American people still to this day are in denial to. I was a hard-line right winger, until Bush and Blair made their case for war in Iraq. I should really thank them in a way lol.

It is a sad time we live in that compassion and humanity are considered signs of weakness and waging war and the death that comes with it are considered righteous and just.

 

[Batman]

I despise war. Do you not despise it?

Absolutely. But I know when it is necessary. This war on terror is necessary.

It is easy saying war is great, this war is good from your armchair thousands of miles away.

This is not an armchair war for me. I have two friends serving there now and another friend's daughter ships to Iraq next month. I think I can say I'm directly affected by it.

I just wonder if American familes who lost a loved one through the war in Iraq feel the same way.

Luckily I don't know directly a family who has lost someone. But the families of my friends although they pray for their loved ones safe return, still feel it's a just cause if they don't. My friend's daughter feels so much so, she enlisted after the invasion of Iraq, knowing she would go there.

 

[Pacridge]

This is not an armchair war for me. I have two friends serving there now and another friend's daughter ships to Iraq next month. I think I can say I'm directly affected by it.

How's that work? I mean, I know a quarterback- doesn't mean I'm a football player. When I watch games I'm still just an armchair quarterback.

 

[Pacridge]

Just a couple things I'd like to throw out there for clarification.

On nuclear weapons:

First, it is not hypocritical to be the first nation to drop nuclear weapons and then come to the sudden realization that the result is catastrophic and that you don't ever want to see it happen again.

Second, we have found that nuclear deterent force and MAD, regardless of how rediculous it may appear to be, actually works. Notice that the USSR and the US did not destroy the world.

Conclusion. Nuclear war sucks. We don't want anyone else starting one. We want to have the most nukes so people who think that nuclear war might be a good idea will realize that THEY WILL LOSE.

On DELTA and Rainbow:

DELTA = Real
Rainbow = Fiction

Tom Clancy has an uncanny ability to make odd-ball predictions that are extremely close to real life, but in the end, his work is still (with few exceptions) fiction.

Welcome back LF, long time no see.

All Good points.

I think the clue that "Rainbow" wasn't a real unit might be in the name itself. I mean if they were real would they go on missions such as "Operation Pixie Dust" or maybe "Operation Hugs and Kisses?" Then they could follow those up the "Little Pony Playtime."

 

[GarzaUK]

You are speaking about citizen sponsored where as I was asking about Goverenment sponsored.

Government/state sponsering terrorism, citizen sponsering terrorism, still money is been given to terrorists.

If the war on world-wide terrorism is necessary, shouldn't bring justice upon those who sponser it - Americans included? Or is it just Islamic Terrorism now? The American Government ignored the donations to the Irish Republican Army, they knew what the IRA was doing.

What would the Government do to an American than sponsered Al'Queida? Islamic terrorism, Irish terrorism, they are all murderers.

I know for certain that thousands of Americans gave money and weapons to Irish terrorists to murder people, 3,600 people in fact, not only my side but also Irish were murdered as well.

Bring these people to justice then! Or is America still full of double standards?

 

[guerilla89]

Okay, it sounds like some of you are against Muslims while some of you are against terrorism. If you're against terrorism, fine, I am too. Terrorism is terrorism, regardless of the people who are commiting the deeds. As far as those against Muslims, wake up guys, Muslims are human beings too, and if you're REALLY American then remember your great saying "all men are created equal" (unfortunately, it seems that thought died with Lincoln). I'll say one thing about the war on terror, aside from it being bogus. This **** is just WAY too crazy. I'm starting to see a rebirth of the Cold War attitude, this time it's toward the Middle East. One question, gentlemen... WHY THE HELL CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET A-L-O-N-G? That would REALLY solve a lot of problems.

By the way, America should not be the world's police force. That's the UN's job.

I can't see why Bush can't go to the Middle East and try and TALK to Iran, you know, peace treaty style. That would save a lot of innocent soldiers and Iranians. War is just stupid, you guys. I can't even understand why I EVER thought that anything would come out of killing someone else. It's sad that we're the most advanced race of being's on the planet and we STILL fight like animals.

Give me some feedback on that. Oh, and thanx for the friendly welcome from the admins. I appreciate it, you guys, and I love your website.

 

[Contrarian]

The American Government ignored the donations to the Irish Republican Army, they knew what the IRA was doing.

What would the Government do to an American than sponsered Al'Queida? Islamic terrorism, Irish terrorism, they are all murderers.

Bring these people to justice then! Or is America still full of double standards?

Stop the nonsense. ALL COUNTRIES have double standards. We're putting up with the Saudi Arabians who clearly fund these bozos, because of the oil. The French weren't the ideolistic pacifists that they claimed to be, they just didn't want us screwing up their illegal arms deals with Sadaam and the boys. The British goverment has been the most self serving "Empire" in modern times and even as someone who aggressively opposed the Iraq war, I'm having a problem with the holier than thou Brit / Franco bashing of America as the evil empire. As I said earlier, there is enough sh*t to go around, and the stink is all over you guys too. Besides, as someone pointed out earlier, you'd all have had to learn German if it wasn't for the big bad Americans... so, get over it.

 

[Pacridge]

Stop the nonsense. ALL COUNTRIES have double standards. We're putting up with the Saudi Arabians who clearly fund these bozos, because of the oil. The French weren't the ideolistic pacifists that they claimed to be, they just didn't want us screwing up their illegal arms deals with Sadaam and the boys. The British goverment has been the most self serving "Empire" in modern times and even as someone who aggressively opposed the Iraq war, I'm having a problem with the holier than thou Brit / Franco bashing of America as the evil empire. As I said earlier, there is enough sh*t to go around, and the stink is all over you guys too. Besides, as someone pointed out earlier, you'd all have had to learn German if it wasn't for the big bad Americans... so, get over it.

Some good points. But the German speaking comment misses the mark with me. It's history and while history should be embraced I don't necessarily feel they owe us for forever. It’s not like we engaged in WWII soley based on altruistic reasoning.

Plus if it’s weren’t for the French, we’d be taking afternoon tea and driving on the left side of the road.

 

[GarzaUK]

Stop the nonsense. ALL COUNTRIES have double standards. We're putting up with the Saudi Arabians who clearly fund these bozos, because of the oil. The French weren't the ideolistic pacifists that they claimed to be, they just didn't want us screwing up their illegal arms deals with Sadaam and the boys. The British goverment has been the most self serving "Empire" in modern times and even as someone who aggressively opposed the Iraq war, I'm having a problem with the holier than thou Brit / Franco bashing of America as the evil empire. As I said earlier, there is enough sh*t to go around, and the stink is all over you guys too. Besides, as someone pointed out earlier, you'd all have had to learn German if it wasn't for the big bad Americans... so, get over it.

You speak the truth when you say all countries have double standards, it is politics and my country is far from innocent as well. But Brits never say boastful things about our country, like "Britain is God's chosen country" etc, because we know of our mistakes of the past. Most Americans however deny their real past and follow the Hollywood version of history sugar coated in patriotism. Name me one Hollywood Movie where the US was the bad guy? Has there been a movie of the slaughter of Native Americans in hands of the US army?
I have no denials about Britain's past evils.

As for the America as the evil empire, when did I ever say this?

Also this "If it wasn't for us you would be speaking german.." is getting pretty old fast. If we didn't hold out or if we made peace with Hitler, how would the US have invaded Nazi Germany? Britain was vital for you to even launch and invasion. Without Britain or the Soviet Union or the US, most of Europe would be speaking German.

Anyway I like Americans... well some of them.

 

[Batman]

How's that work? I mean, I know a quarterback- doesn't mean I'm a football player. When I watch games I'm still just an armchair quarterback.

I guess it means I care about my friends even if you don't. Are you saying because families of service members aren't there fighting themselves it does not affect them. I know you're against the war, but there is such a thing as getting close to crossing the line.

 

[GarzaUK]

I guess it means I care about my friends even if you don't. Are you saying because families of service members aren't there fighting themselves it does not affect them. I know you're against the war, but there is such a thing as getting close to crossing the line.

I assuming your going to sign up batman, or if your not 18 yet are you going to sign up when you reach it? Fight for your country in this necessary war.

I've heard I saying from an American "Men go to war as Republicans and come out as Democrats."

I have a few friends in the British Military, some are in Iraq. Luckily the British held zone is not as violent as the rest, I guess 30 years fighting terrorism in Northern Ireland did them some good after all.

 

[Batman]

I assuming your going to sign up batman, or if your not 18 yet are you going to sign up when you reach it? Fight for your country in this necessary war.

Cute. Too old to sign up now. Did when I was 17. If I could go, I would. As would my brother who served in the first Gulf War.
You know Garza, you put me in mind of Marvin the Martian. The little tough guy in the Warner Brothers cartoon - I will shoot you with my la-zor.
Difference is he carries a gun and actually threatens the use of force.

 

[Pacridge]

I guess it means I care about my friends even if you don't. Are you saying because families of service members aren't there fighting themselves it does not affect them. I know you're against the war, but there is such a thing as getting close to crossing the line.

Not sure how I'm crossing any lines or even tip-toeing up to any. Which I guess could be part of the problem?

I supported the assault on Afghanistan. I just didn’t follow the logic of attacking a country that didn’t attack us. And while I may not be in favor of the Iraq war, make no mistake that I do support the troops. My company, which my wife and I own, sent several care packages to the National Guard unit from our state. We’ve sent numerous walkie talkie radios, GPS units, binoculars and night vision monoculars. As well as “goodie boxes” with beef jerky, snacks, and personal items such as shampoos and soaps. My company spent more doing this last year then we spent on our federal and state taxes combined.

We’ve also attended memorial services for 13 fallen service members. Went to one this past Tuesday. Sgt. Adam J. Plumondore, who died in roadside bombing attack in Mosul Feb. 16th.

Not supporting the war and not supporting the troops is not the same thing.

 

[Thor]

How's that work? I mean, I know a quarterback- doesn't mean I'm a football player. When I watch games I'm still just an armchair quarterback.

You make it sound like just because someone isn't there that they don't have anything invested in this war. That's untrue and a very shallow statement. Just because a person is not on the front lines does not mean they are not emotionally attached to those that are. A coach on the sidelines doesn't play in the game but he still suffers from the loss.

 

[Batman]

Just because a person is not on the front lines does not mean they are not emotionally attached to those that are. A coach on the sidelines doesn't play in the game but he still suffers from the loss.

Thank you Thor. I'm glad someone took it the same way I did.

 

[Thor]

Not sure how I'm crossing any lines or even tip-toeing up to any. Which I guess could be part of the problem?

I supported the assault on Afghanistan. I just didn’t follow the logic of attacking a country that didn’t attack us. And while I may not be in favor of the Iraq war, make no mistake that I do support the troops. My company, which my wife and I own, sent several care packages to the National Guard unit from our state. We’ve sent numerous walkie talkie radios, GPS units, binoculars and night vision monoculars. As well as “goodie boxes” with beef jerky, snacks, and personal items such as shampoos and soaps. My company spent more doing this last year then we spent on our federal and state taxes combined.

We’ve also attended memorial services for 13 fallen service members. Went to one this past Tuesday. Sgt. Adam J. Plumondore, who died in roadside bombing attack in Mosul Feb. 16th.

Not supporting the war and not supporting the troops is not the same thing.

Afghanistan didn't attack us. Terrorist did. Afghanistan is just the place they went to hide. 9/11 was not a attack by a country but by a ideology.