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War in Iraq is unconstitutional and unjust

alphieb

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This war in Iraq is unconstitutional. If any of you don't know what I am referring to, look it up.

Why the war is wrong and has nothing to do with 911:

1. Hussein is not a member of the Taliban. The Taliban was actually a threat to him.

2. Osama Bin Laden was responsible for 911....not Hussein, but we have yet to capture him, even though we have Hussein.

3. The war on Iraq has produced many deaths....no comparison to other wars, but yet has still incurred unnecessary deaths.

4. Where are the WMD?????????? We had intelligence to investigate prior to invasion.

5. Socialist empire....bush is not a king. this war is a violation to our constitutional rights.
 

cnredd

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Possibly the funniest line I've ever heard in a debate forum...

If any of you don't know what I am referring to, look it up.
 

AK_Conservative

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alphieb said:
This war in Iraq is unconstitutional. If any of you don't know what I am referring to, look it up.

Why the war is wrong and has nothing to do with 911:

1. Hussein is not a member of the Taliban. The Taliban was actually a threat to him.

2. Osama Bin Laden was responsible for 911....not Hussein, but we have yet to capture him, even though we have Hussein.

3. The war on Iraq has produced many deaths....no comparison to other wars, but yet has still incurred unnecessary deaths.

4. Where are the WMD?????????? We had intelligence to investigate prior to invasion.

5. Socialist empire....bush is not a king. this war is a violation to our constitutional rights.

Well, to say the war is unconstitutional is flat out wrong. Bush got approval from congress! The connection between terrorists and Saddam is not directly related to 9/11, BUT iraq was and is a harboring grounds for terrorists. To say they are unnecessary deaths, you are bring the military value to a low that is not even right! Ive posted many times between the connection of iraq and al qaeda. Secondly, the war is very much justifyable in the fact that Saddam denied UN weapon inspectors acces to vital areas. That suggest he must be hiding something. Now Iraq has a lit of WMD's not accounted for. Whre did they go? Either Syria or Iran in my guess. Lastly, You fallacious argument parallels the line of the extreme left media and congress i.e. turbin durbin, kennedy dean, ect.. Grab an opinion of your own for christ sake. Next you will be saying that Saddam was a friendly Ally to us or that we are torturing saddam in his tiny jail cell with those whity tighties he has on!

No matter the war, death will occur. It is great that we have had very few casualties compared to WW2 and vietnam. Look at this. Some say Iraq never attacked us and therefor we have no business being there. Well, Germany never attacked us in ww2. But we still went over there and fought. We didnt know about the concentration camps till the closing of the war. I love how people twist and skew information for their political rhetoric to advance an agenda that should not even be produced.
 

alphieb

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cnredd said:
Possibly the funniest line I've ever heard in a debate forum...

If any of you don't know what I am referring to, look it up.
I made reference to the war being Unconstitutional on another forum and I was asked what I was talking about. A lot of people did not understand how it was unconstitional and I did not feel like writing a book about it. Bush did not have total support of the house. I thought people could do their own research and draw their own conclusions.
 
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Simon W. Moon

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alphieb said:
This war in Iraq is unconstitutional.
In what way? What provision(s) of the Constitution has (have) been violated?

alphieb said:
If any of you don't know what I am referring to, look it up.
Umm. That's not how things work. You're making the assertion. Part of your case is to provide the backing for your assertion.

alphieb said:
Why the war is wrong and has nothing to do with 911:
Well, that's all fine and good for you to say so, but it doesn't really relate to the constitutionality of the affair.

alphieb said:
1. Hussein ... prior to invasion.
See above

alphieb said:
this war is a violation to our constitutional rights.
Which ones?
 

Simon W. Moon

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alphieb said:
Bush did not have total support of the house.
What makes you think that the unanimous support of the House is needed?
 

alphieb

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AK_Conservative said:
Well, to say the war is unconstitutional is flat out wrong. Bush got approval from congress! The connection between terrorists and Saddam is not directly related to 9/11, BUT iraq was and is a harboring grounds for terrorists. To say they are unnecessary deaths, you are bring the military value to a low that is not even right! Ive posted many times between the connection of iraq and al qaeda. Secondly, the war is very much justifyable in the fact that Saddam denied UN weapon inspectors acces to vital areas. That suggest he must be hiding something. Now Iraq has a lit of WMD's not accounted for. Whre did they go? Either Syria or Iran in my guess. Lastly, You fallacious argument parallels the line of the extreme left media and congress i.e. turbin durbin, kennedy dean, ect.. Grab an opinion of your own for christ sake. Next you will be saying that Saddam was a friendly Ally to us or that we are torturing saddam in his tiny jail cell with those whity tighties he has on!

No matter the war, death will occur. It is great that we have had very few casualties compared to WW2 and vietnam. Look at this. Some say Iraq never attacked us and therefor we have no business being there. Well, Germany never attacked us in ww2. But we still went over there and fought. We didnt know about the concentration camps till the closing of the war. I love how people twist and skew information for their political rhetoric to advance an agenda that should not even be produced.
How do you know Iraq is harboring grounds for terrorist? Are you US intelligence that has seen it first hand. Have we found those hidden terrorist? That is bogus lies and an attempt to condone this war.

Where did the WMD go? You are speculating that they even existed.

Bush said the war was to "disarm Iraq, to free its people and defend us from danger"

The war was not even legal under international law. Under Chapter VII of UN Charter. A war is justified under two circumstances: under self defense or Security Council.

SELF DEFENSE:

We were not attacked by Iraq nor threatened. Provide me proof Hussein was harboring terrorist or offering WMD (there is none). Hussein was not connected to Al Qaeda.

THE SECURITY COUNCIL:

The 15-member UN did not authorize the attack on Iraq. They wanted new inspections to resolve peacefully. Iraq accepted the renewed inspections which were actually carried out. The US did not comply with the UN.

ALSO:

NATIONS AT WAR ARE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW THE LAW OF WAR, HUMANITARIAN LAW AS WELL AS CUSTOMARY LAW, THE LAW OF WAR REGULATES MILITARY OPERATION IN AN ATTEMPT TO PROTECT CIVILIANS FROM DISASTER.
 

alphieb

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Simon W. Moon said:
In what way? What provision(s) of the Constitution has (have) been violated?

Umm. That's not how things work. You're making the assertion. Part of your case is to provide the backing for your assertion.

Well, that's all fine and good for you to say so, but it doesn't really relate to the constitutionality of the affair.

See above

Which ones?
The US congress never voted for the Iraq war. Rather, congress voted for a resolution in Oct 2002. King Bush unlawfully took it upon himself to launch a first-strike. Congress then supported-after the fact which is just as illegal. Congress said later in Oct. 2002 "The president is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the US as he determines....WRONG.

ALSO (see my post about the UN).

"Congress cannot transfer to the president its exclusive power to declare war any more than it can transfer its exclusive power to levy taxes. such a transfer is illegal" .........by John Bonifaz
 
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alphieb

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Simon W. Moon said:
What makes you think that the unanimous support of the House is needed?
The constitution Article 1, Section 8
 

Simon W. Moon

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alphieb said:
The constitution Article 1, Section 8
Which clause calls for the unanimous consent of the House?
Article. I. Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;
Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
 

Simon W. Moon

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alphieb said:
The US congress never voted for the Iraq war. Rather, congress voted for a resolution in Oct 2002. King Bush unlawfully took it upon himself to launch a first-strike. Congress then supported-after the fact which is just as illegal. Congress said later in Oct. 2002 "The president is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the US as he determines....WRONG.
It was specifically authorized under the War Powers Resolution.
I think that there is a case of undetermined quality to be made the War Powers are unconstituional.

alphieb said:
ALSO (see my post about the UN).
It's not related to the constitutionality of the invasion.
 
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alphieb said:
The US congress never voted for the Iraq war. Rather, congress voted for a resolution in Oct 2002. King Bush unlawfully took it upon himself to launch a first-strike. Congress then supported-after the fact which is just as illegal. Congress said later in Oct. 2002 "The president is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the US as he determines....WRONG.
Wow. This sounds criminal. Downright impeachable. Let us know how this works out for you. :2wave:

Hey, when did President Bush become King? I missed this bit of news.
 

alphieb

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Simon W. Moon said:
Which clause calls for the unanimous consent of the House?
Article. I. Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;
Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
clause eleven an twelve. There is also violations of the bill of rights I will look it up and post you.
 

Simon W. Moon

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alphieb said:
clause eleven an twelve. There is also violations of the bill of rights I will look it up and post you.
Where in these clauses does it say that the unanimous consent of the House is necessary?

Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
 

alphieb

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Simon W. Moon said:
It was specifically authorized under the War Powers Resolution.
I think that there is a case of undetermined quality to be made the War Powers are unconstituional.

It's not related to the constitutionality of the invasion.
A) the circumstances necessitating the introduction of United States Armed Forces;
The war was not necessary

(B) the constitutional and legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and
Did not support the constitution

(C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement.
HOW LONG????????
 

alphieb

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Simon W. Moon said:
Where in these clauses does it say that the unanimous consent of the House is necessary?


Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
Please refer to Article 1 at the top and then relate it to clause 11
 

alphieb

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alphieb said:
clause eleven an twelve. There is also violations of the bill of rights I will look it up and post you.
That congress shall have the power to: clause 11
 

Simon W. Moon

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alphieb said:
That congress shall have the power to: clause 11
And I'm still not seeing where it say that the unanimous consent of the House is required. Would please be so kind as to quote the specific language that states this?
 

alphieb

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KCConservative said:
Wow. This sounds criminal. Downright impeachable. Let us know how this works out for you. :2wave:

Hey, when did President Bush become King? I missed this bit of news.
After he created our country into a new Monarchy
 

alphieb

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Simon W. Moon said:
Where in these clauses does it say that the unanimous consent of the House is necessary?

Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
That congress shall have the power to declare War.....If you read at the top of the constitution it states things shall be decided with support of congress. Of course not in those exact words, but that is what it means.
 

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alphieb said:
That congress shall have the power to declare War.....If you read at the top of the constitution it states things shall be decided with support of congress. Of course not in those exact words, but that is what it means.
There's still nothing that specifies the unanimous consent of the House.
 

alphieb

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Simon W. Moon said:
There's still nothing that specifies the unanimous consent of the House.
That is how it is interpreted. I will do some more research later.
 
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