War crimes

[Antiwar]

It seems you've riled the "whatabout" Brigade.

It seems that you're using bogus binary logic.

 

[Antiwar]

Of course it won’t, because we have no actual way of “apprehending” said war criminals.

Why can't alleged war criminals be arrested? There was at least one relatively recent case where 'they' had caught a Middle Eastern country leader alive; he was killed instead of arrested.

 

[Tigerace117]

Why can't alleged war criminals be arrested? There was at least one relatively recent case where 'they' had a Middle Eastern country leader and he was killed instead of arrested.

Because just about every time they resist with everything they have access to, and when it’s a sitting leader— like Putin is— that includes vast numbers of troops, tanks, aircraft and warships.

Which is why war criminals tend to be arrested only after the regime they serve has been defeated in combat and they can no longer protect themselves with those forces.

 

[NWRatCon]

It seems that you're using bogus binary logic.

It seems you're not making any sense.

 

[Antiwar]

Because just about every time they resist with everything they have access to, and when it’s a sitting leader— like Putin is— that includes vast numbers of troops, tanks, aircraft and warships.

Which is why war criminals tend to be arrested only after the regime they serve has been defeated in combat and they can no longer protect themselves with those forces.

And P**** is said to be very careful (paranoid, even). But that doesn't mean that it's impossible for him to be arrested.

I believe there were two relatively recent cases: Osama bin Laden and Muammar Gaddafi? I'm vaguely picturing OBL resembling Fidel Castro.

 

[Antiwar]

It seems you're not making any sense.

I can try to clarify, if you don't understand.

 

[NWRatCon]

Establishing a war crimes tribunal is extremely difficult, since Russia, as a Security Council member, can veto it.

Although the International Criminal Court has jurisdiction, since Ukraine has authorized it, getting personal jurisdiction over perpetrators will be difficult. If Russian authorities depose Putin, they could send him to the Hague, but that seems unlikely.

He could be tried by any Geneva Convention signatory state, but putting the habeas grabbus on him would be, "problematic".

 

[Tigerace117]

And P**** is said to be very careful (paranoid, even). But that doesn't mean that it's impossible for him to be arrested.

I believe there were two relatively recent cases: Osama bin Laden and Muammar Gaddafi? I'm vaguely picturing OBL resembling Fidel Castro.

Bin Laden took a decade’s worth of work, including invading Afghanistan to force him out from under the Taliban’s protection, and even then his bodyguards tried to fight to defend him. Likewise, with Gaddafi it took a full air campaign to destroy the forces he had mobilized against the rebels before he was apprehended. Had that campaign not taken place nobody could have touched him.

Trying to arrest Putin would fail miserably within Russia itself. Most countries wouldn’t even bother trying if they had the chance.

 

[Antiwar]

Bin Laden took a decade’s worth of work, including invading Afghanistan to force him out from under the Taliban’s protection, and even then his bodyguards tried to fight to defend him. Likewise, with Gaddafi it took a full air campaign to destroy the forces he had mobilized against the rebels before he was apprehended. Had that campaign not taken place nobody could have touched him.

The main point was that 'they' had 'them' where they could arrest them and they didn't. Why? It must be that 'they' don't want to arrest alleged ________ (whatever one wants to call them).

Another major point is: 'They' shouldn't wait till after horrendous human rights abuses and/or war crimes and/or whatever else to finally decide, "Welp, it looks like we've got to do something, now." I imagine that history is replete with stories like this.

Effective international relationships would work to prevent "dictators" (for lack of a better word) from getting in the position where they're (supposedly) difficult to arrest. The same goes for the below quote.

Trying to arrest Putin would fail miserably within Russia itself. Most countries wouldn’t even bother trying if they had the chance.

 

[Tigerace117]

The main point was that 'they' had 'them' where they could arrest them and they didn't. Why? It must be that 'they' don't want to arrest alleged ________ (whatever one wants to call them).

Another major point is: 'They' shouldn't wait till after horrendous human rights abuses and/or war crimes and/or whatever else to finally decide, "Welp, it looks like we've got to do something, now." I imagine that history is replete with stories like this.

Effective international relationships would work to prevent "dictators" (for lack of a better word) from getting in the position where they're (supposedly) difficult to arrest. The same goes for the below quote.

Because Bin Laden’s troops chose to shoot it out rather than surrender. Once that happens the priority becomes to preserve the lives of the commandos involved. After all, you can’t arrest anyone if the guys you send to do it are all dead.

Gaddafi WAS arrested though. It’s just that those doing the arresting decided to carry out an execution pretty much immediately afterwards. That’s what happens when you brutally oppress your people for long enough. Same basic thing happened to Mussolini.

Dictators, by definition, are difficult to arrest in the first place because they exert total control over their countries. Short of inventing the machine from Minority Report and making it work properly, there’s no way to preemptively arrest someone for the crimes he commits before he commits them.

 

[Antiwar]

Because Bin Laden’s troops chose to shoot it out rather than surrender. Once that happens the priority becomes to preserve the lives of the commandos involved. After all, you can’t arrest anyone if the guys you send to do it are all dead.

Gaddafi WAS arrested though. It’s just that those doing the arresting decided to carry out an execution pretty much immediately afterwards. That’s what happens when you brutally oppress your people for long enough. Same basic thing happened to Mussolini.

Dictators, by definition, are difficult to arrest in the first place because they exert total control over their countries. Short of inventing the machine from Minority Report and making it work properly, there’s no way to preemptively arrest someone for the crimes he commits before he commits them.

You seem to be purposely ignoring what I said, for the most part, so I'll just say this:

Hitler should've been stopped sooner.

 

[Nilhus]

In this case, it can, unless you think that wrongs in the past make present ones okay.

Actually it's more than that, certain grave criminal acts committed by the US in the past, gave the US certain strategic advantages against its enemies. As a consequence, others like Russia ARE FORCED to do certain things that might be considered illegal and/or immoral, in order to maintain their nation security within acceptable limits.

And the criminal military acts committed by the US government are not just a thing of the past, it's something present, perpetual(anything from its illegal presence in sovereign Syria to huge variety of highly illegal operations - like seizing Iranian oil on the high seas - which is state piracy, and many, many other ugly and highly illegal things)

Actually grave acts of state thievery on unprecenented scale are happening right now against Russian citizens, the Russian government, the Afghanistan governemnt, the Iranian government - they are being committed by the US and its criminal allies. I were Putin, I'd immediately threaten imminent use of nuclear strikes against any state that refuses to return all the assets held by the Russian govt. or any Russian citizen or company in US&allied countries.

The US govt. must be held accountable for a very long string of extremely grave crimes(including war crimes) committed internationally!

 

[Chagos]

Actually it's more than that, certain grave criminal acts committed by the US in the past, gave the US certain strategic advantages against its enemies. As a consequence, others like Russia ARE FORCED to do certain things that might be considered illegal and/or immoral, in order to maintain their nation security within acceptable limits.

And the criminal military acts committed by the US government are not just a thing of the past, it's something present, perpetual(anything from its illegal presence in sovereign Syria to huge variety of highly illegal operations - like seizing Iranian oil on the high seas - which is state piracy, and many, many other ugly and highly illegal things)

Actually grave acts of state thievery on unprecenented scale are happening right now against Russian citizens, the Russian government, the Afghanistan governemnt, the Iranian government - they are being committed by the US and its criminal allies. I were Putin, I'd immediately threaten imminent use of nuclear strikes against any state that refuses to return all the assets held by the Russian govt. or any Russian citizen or company in US&allied countries.

The US govt. must be held accountable for a very long string of extremely grave crimes(including war crimes) committed internationally!

That you might believe in the success of peddling this nonsense to what appears to be the greater part of the Russian populace is understandable, although one can wonder why you'd bother, seeing how the state-controlled Russian media already doing this has a far greater potential.

Where things become really ridiculous though is when you attempt to peddle such bovine manure on and in places like here, in the delusion of achieving anything at all.

 

[watsup]

Actually it's more than that, certain grave criminal acts committed by the US in the past, gave the US certain strategic advantages against its enemies. As a consequence, others like Russia ARE FORCED to do certain things that might be considered illegal and/or immoral, in order to maintain their nation security within acceptable limits.

And the criminal military acts committed by the US government are not just a thing of the past, it's something present, perpetual(anything from its illegal presence in sovereign Syria to huge variety of highly illegal operations - like seizing Iranian oil on the high seas - which is state piracy, and many, many other ugly and highly illegal things)

Actually grave acts of state thievery on unprecenented scale are happening right now against Russian citizens, the Russian government, the Afghanistan governemnt, the Iranian government - they are being committed by the US and its criminal allies. I were Putin, I'd immediately threaten imminent use of nuclear strikes against any state that refuses to return all the assets held by the Russian govt. or any Russian citizen or company in US&allied countries.

The US govt. must be held accountable for a very long string of extremely grave crimes(including war crimes) committed internationally!

Putin propaganda. “State thievery”. *L*

 

[Fledermaus]

Actually it's more than that, certain grave criminal acts committed by the US in the past, gave the US certain strategic advantages against its enemies. As a consequence, others like Russia ARE FORCED to do certain things that might be considered illegal and/or immoral, in order to maintain their nation security within acceptable limits.

And the criminal military acts committed by the US government are not just a thing of the past, it's something present, perpetual(anything from its illegal presence in sovereign Syria to huge variety of highly illegal operations - like seizing Iranian oil on the high seas - which is state piracy, and many, many other ugly and highly illegal things)

Actually grave acts of state thievery on unprecenented scale are happening right now against Russian citizens, the Russian government, the Afghanistan governemnt, the Iranian government - they are being committed by the US and its criminal allies. I were Putin, I'd immediately threaten imminent use of nuclear strikes against any state that refuses to return all the assets held by the Russian govt. or any Russian citizen or company in US&allied countries.

The US govt. must be held accountable for a very long string of extremely grave crimes(including war crimes) committed internationally!

Threatening nuclear war over seized assets?

 

[Nilhus]

Threatening nuclear war over seized assets?

Absolutely! We're talking about hundreds of billions of $$$ no just some small change. Had this happened to the US, they'd have been a lot more aggressive about it! Russia is a bit too calm given the circumstances!

 

[Rogue Valley]

Remind me, did Kennedy, Johnson or Nixon go on trial for the Vietnam debacle? And then there is this;

"in 1971 the Army began a four and a half year investigation of the alleged torture of prisoners, rapes of civilian women, the mutilation of bodies and killing of anywhere from nine to well over one hundred unarmed civilians, among other acts. The articles further report that the Army's inquiry concluded that eighteen U.S. soldiers committed war crimes ranging from murder and assault to dereliction of duty. However, not one of the soldiers, even of those still on active duty at the time of the investigation, was ever court martialed in connection with the heinous crimes. Moreover, six suspected war criminals were allowed to resign from military service during the criminal investigations specifically to avoid prosecution." https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1802

Whataboutism and thread-hijacking.

As always, you attack America without a solitary word about what this thread is about ..... Russian war crimes in Ukraine.

You are labeled correctly.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Not a good look BTW Parser. Be better. Be best.

Lol. Says the white-power nationalist.

 

[Jkca1]

Whataboutism and thread-hijacking.

As always, you attack America without a solitary word about what this thread is about ..... Russian war crimes in Ukraine.

You are labeled correctly.

Your labels are meaningless, but perhaps that's how you cope in the world.

I think most of us can agree that war crimes commited by any group are wrong. What I haven't heard you say is you agree. All parties committing war crimes should be tried in a court of law. Makes no difference if it's Russia, France, China or the US. If you can agree to that we have common ground. If not, we have nothing more to discuss.

 

[watsup]

Your labels are meaningless, but perhaps that's how you cope in the world.

I think most of us can agree that war crimes commited by any group are wrong. What I haven't heard you say is you agree. All parties committing war crimes should be tried in a court of law. Makes no difference if it's Russia, France, China or the US. If you can agree to that we have common ground. If not, we have nothing more to discuss.

More whataboutism.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Your labels are meaningless, but perhaps that's how you cope in the world.

I cope by exposing propagandists like you.

 

[Jkca1]

I cope by exposing propagandists like you.

I try to help those that need to improve their people skills but don't think they do. Be sure to check out item 1;

People Skills Learning to Stop Labeling Others​

1. Be aware of our own fears and insecurities. Self-awareness opens our minds. It gives us the courage to learn about others instead of labeling them from afar.
2. Consider why we use specific labels that limit others. Did an authority figure teach us those labels? Have we absorbed them from popular use without considering if they’re true? Did we start using harmful labels when we felt we didn’t matter?
3. Ask more questions. Talk to people. It keeps us in learning mode. It gives us knowledge and insight to replace labels. “If you’re tired of arguing with strangers on the Internet, try talking with one of them in real life. ~Barack Obama, Farewell Address Jan. 2017”
4. Describe behavior with greater clarity instead of labeling people. People are deeper than labels.
5. If we don’t like the behavior we see, state what change we want to see. For example, if a teammate isn’t completing their tasks and it’s delaying our work, it’s far more productive to speak with the teammate and express what we need instead of labeling them as lazy.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Your labels are meaningless, but perhaps that's how you cope in the world.

Your apologia for the Putin regime is meaningless, yet still must be pointed out and exposed.

 

[oneworld2]

Your apologia for the Putin regime is meaningless, yet still must be pointed out and exposed.

Nope, he is right. Those that only want the criminals of the state enemies prosecuted and shamed for their crimes but cry foul when the crimes of their own are mentioned are NOT interested in criminality at all and/or justice for any victims. They are only interested in propaganda that can derived by references to crimes, real or imagined.

You are wrong and he is right. There is no other way to see it.