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Wall supporters.

bongsaway

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Wall supporters.

Let's try to make the wall issue a bit clearer.

Where exactly is this wall going to be built?

How much wall is needed?

Is a wall a wall or a fence, a moat, a 'barrier', orange cones, what?

What specifically do wall supporters want?
 

Felis Leo

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Wall supporters.

Let's try to make the wall issue a bit clearer.

Where exactly is this wall going to be built?

How much wall is needed?

Is a wall a wall or a fence, a moat, a 'barrier', orange cones, what?

What specifically do wall supporters want?

A systems of barriers, fences, ditches, embankment, and, where appropriate, sheer walls like those found on the Israel-Gaza and Israel-West Bank border along all crossable parts of the Mexico-U.S. border.
 

bongsaway

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A systems of barriers, fences, ditches, embankment, and, where appropriate, sheer walls like those found on the Israel-Gaza and Israel-West Bank border along all crossable parts of the Mexico-U.S. border.

Perfect, call your representatives and let them know.
 

noonereal

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A systems of barriers, fences, ditches, embankment, and, where appropriate, sheer walls like those found on the Israel-Gaza and Israel-West Bank border along all crossable parts of the Mexico-U.S. border.

land of the Free, home of the brave, not so much.

Sad to see our country unravel into cowardice.
 

Praxas

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A systems of barriers, fences, ditches, embankment, and, where appropriate, sheer walls like those found on the Israel-Gaza and Israel-West Bank border along all crossable parts of the Mexico-U.S. border.

Specifics, how much is going to be a fence, ditch, barrier, wall, what type of material, how long, let's see estimates that are based in reality? How much of the 5.7 billion is going to cover what Trump wants, how much more is he going to ask for later and then take federal workers hostage again for MORE money? See neither YOU nor Trump even have a clue and that's why Trump doesn't deserve ANYTHING he is requesting because it isn't based in reality and only his petty ego. You see to Trump and you it doesn't MATTER if it is effective or what it costs, it only matters that he gets what he wants. Pathetic but then that's why you both will lose.
 

Felis Leo

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land of the Free, home of the brave, not so much.

Sad to see our country unravel into cowardice.

If you want to make a case as to why people entering our country should not have to come through legal points of entry and identify themselves to our national government prior to entering our country, then by all means make your case, noonereal.
 

Felis Leo

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Specifics, how much is going to be a fence, ditch, barrier, wall, what type of material, how long, let's see estimates that are based in reality? How much of the 5.7 billion is going to cover what Trump wants, how much more is he going to ask for later and then take federal workers hostage again for MORE money? See neither YOU nor Trump even have a clue and that's why Trump doesn't deserve ANYTHING he is requesting because it isn't based in reality and only his petty ego. You see to Trump and you it doesn't MATTER if it is effective or what it costs, it only matters that he gets what he wants. Pathetic but then that's why you both will lose.

I do not care one iota about Donald Trump, Praxas. He could die tomorrow for all I care, and his ego along with him, and a system of guarded barriers would still be appropriate to fully secure our Southern border. If you want to talk about cost, and that is truly your only issue, fine. Would you be fine with extending the existing barriers if you simply knew the cost of creating an Israeli-style barrier system? Or would you have to wait until Donald Trump is out of office before you could ever bring yourself to consider itt? If not, what principles guide you in wanting to leave large swathes of our Southern Border practically unguarded and open to illegal entry?
 

Felis Leo

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Perfect, call your representatives and let them know.

You asked "what specifically wall supporters want." I presumed you wanted an honest conversation and debate, bongsaway. Do you not want to have a discussion on this topic?
 

Praxas

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I do not care one iota about Donald Trump, Praxas. He could die tomorrow for all I care, and his ego along with him, and a system of guarded barriers would still be appropriate to fully secure our Southern border. If you want to talk about cost, and that is truly your only issue, fine. Would you be fine with extending the existing barriers if you simply knew the cost of creating an Israeli-style barrier system? Or would you have to wait until Donald Trump is out of office before you could ever bring yourself to consider itt? If not, what principles guide you in wanting to leave large swathes of our Southern Border practically unguarded and open to illegal entry?

Neither you nor Trump have stated why a wall is the BEST solution over any other means. It's like Trump supporters and Trump are on some retarded repeat "Duuuuh the wall, the wall, the wall, duhh the wall the wall the wall, duhhhh" Until you or him can actually explain cost, what are the EXACT plans, where, how, why and what, forget it. And yes, I don't want to give him 5.7 billion only for him to turn around and hold federal workers hostage each time he wants an item like the amateur negotiator he is. Not even Trump can explain anything, just that he wants the wall. Sorry if he can't bother to be intelligent about it, he obviously isn't intelligent enough to have it built right.
 

Felis Leo

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Neither you nor Trump have stated why a wall is the BEST solution over any other means. It's like Trump supporters and Trump are on some retarded repeat "Duuuuh the wall, the wall, the wall, duhh the wall the wall the wall, duhhhh" Until you or him can actually explain cost, what are the EXACT plans, where, how, why and what, forget it. And yes, I don't want to give him 5.7 billion only for him to turn around and hold federal workers hostage each time he wants an item like the amateur negotiator he is. Not even Trump can explain anything, just that he wants the wall. Sorry if he can't bother to be intelligent about it, he obviously isn't intelligent enough to have it built right.

If all you want is an honest explanation, Praxas, then I shall explain. Guarded physical barriers are generally the most effective means at preventing illegal entry into a country. Where they are put in place (and actually guarded) they tend to work quite well at preventing illegal entry. In the United States, where we have guarded barrier walls and fences, they tend to work quite well too. Physical barriers allow a nation to guard a larger stretches of land with fewer men and women needed to guard every foot along the border, acting as a force multiplier, because if people want to get through, they have to concentrate their efforts (getting several people together to help climb over at a specific point, or dig under). As a result, illegal entrants can be interdicted more easily and effectively at the points where they attempt to break through, whereas they can more easily get around unguarded parts of the border or scatter when they see guards.

That is my honest explanation, but as you say, you do not appear to care whether it is the best solution or an effective solution, because even if you were to be convinced that a barrier were effective, giving Donald Trump the funding for it would be giving someone you find morally reprehensible a political victory. So I may as well be urinating into the breeze, but I guess I am a glutton for punishment.
 
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calamity

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Wall supporters.

Let's try to make the wall issue a bit clearer.

Where exactly is this wall going to be built?

How much wall is needed?

Is a wall a wall or a fence, a moat, a 'barrier', orange cones, what?

What specifically do wall supporters want?

A win.
 

Praxas

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If all you want is an honest explanation, then I shall explain. Guarded physical barriers are generally the most effective means at preventing illegal entry into a country. Where they are put in place (and actually guarded) they tend to work quite well at preventing illegal entry. In the United States, where we have guarded barrier walls and fences, they tend to work quite well too. Physical barriers allow a nation to guard a larger stretches of land with fewer men and women needed to guard every foot along the border, acting as a force multiplier, because if people want to get through, they have to concentrate their efforts (getting several people together to help climb over at a specific point, or dig under). As a result, illegal entrants can be interdicted more easily and effectively.

That is my honest explanation, but as you say, you do not appear to care because even if you were to be convinced that a barrier were effective, giving Donald Trump the funding for it would be giving someone you find morally reprehensible a political victory. So I may as well be urinating into the breeze, but I guess I am a glutton for punishment.

I'm convinced, the amount Trump is asking for won't do **** and I'm convinced he doesn't even KNOW what he wants to do. I'm convinced that if the Dems give in to this act of terrorism from Trump that he will hold federal workers hostage for any future items he wants. And since Trump is a "Master" negotiator to his lemmings, he should have had no problem getting the money from Mexico. So yeah, you have not convinced us of anything, so deal with NO WALL being built since you and Trump can't even do cost alternates of other methods.
 

dobieg

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Wall supporters.

Let's try to make the wall issue a bit clearer.

Where exactly is this wall going to be built?

How much wall is needed?

Is a wall a wall or a fence, a moat, a 'barrier', orange cones, what?

What specifically do wall supporters want?


What do you care?


Where ever it's built, what ever shape it takes and how much it costs don't really matter to you. Only that Trump is doing it and it will be a win for him.


You liberals are so transparent.
 

Felis Leo

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I'm convinced, the amount Trump is asking for won't do **** and I'm convinced he doesn't even KNOW what he wants to do. I'm convinced that if the Dems give in to this act of terrorism from Trump that he will hold federal workers hostage for any future items he wants. And since Trump is a "Master" negotiator to his lemmings, he should have had no problem getting the money from Mexico. So yeah, you have not convinced us of anything, so deal with NO WALL being built since you and Trump can't even do cost alternates of other methods.

Knock off the crazy talk, Praxas. A shutdown with back-pay is not an act of terrorism. If and when you are interested in having an honest discussion about border security and the best means of securing our Southern Border from illegal entry (if you indeed even care about the subject beyond political wins or losses for your side or mine) I will be here. Until then, have a good day.
 

Praxas

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Knock off the crazy talk, Praxas. A shutdown with back-pay is not an act of terrorism. If and when you are interested in having an honest discussion about border security and the best means of securing our Southern Border from illegal entry (if you indeed even care about the subject beyond political wins or losses for your side) I will be here. Until then, have a good day.

Sorry holding federal workers hostage for your lies is an act of terrorism like Trump did. Since neither Trump nor you can actually explain why a wall is the best thing over ANYTHING else, you are dismissed.
 

Felis Leo

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Sorry holding federal workers hostage for your lies is an act of terrorism like Trump did. Since neither Trump nor you can actually explain why a wall is the best thing over ANYTHING else, you are dismissed.

Well, until are ready to stop spitting insults and stamping your foot, Praxas, I will be here waiting patiently.

 
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noonereal

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If you want to make a case as to why people entering our country should not have to come through legal points of entry and identify themselves to our national government prior to entering our country, then by all means make your case, noonereal.

I am too scared. I wear my "red hat" to hide.
 

CriticalThought

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A systems of barriers, fences, ditches, embankment, and, where appropriate, sheer walls like those found on the Israel-Gaza and Israel-West Bank border along all crossable parts of the Mexico-U.S. border.

Remind me why we need a militarized border with a country we are not at war with?
 

trixare4kids

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The strongest proof that walls work is that Democrats once loved them.

Former and current senators Joe Biden, Tom Carper, Hillary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, Barack Obama, Chuck Schumer, Debbie Stabenow, and Ron Wyden were among the 26 Democrats who voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006. It authorized 700 miles of double fence. All 54 Senate Democrats voted unanimously in June 2013 for $46 billion in border security, including 350 miles of new steel fence.

“Between 2005 and 2015, polls show that nearly half of Democrats continued to support building a border barrier of some kind,” Cato Institute scholar Emily Ekins wrote in The Federalist. “However, things changed in 2015 when Donald Trump announced his bid for the presidency,” she continued. “Democratic support shifted more swiftly starting in the fall of 2015 onward. Now only about 12 percent of Democrats support a border wall or fence.”

Meanwhile, Republicans consistently have endorsed a wall, Ekins reported: 73 percent in October 2015; 71 percent today.

Most congressional Democrats who are supporting Pelosi's notion that the wall is immoral are skilled liars.
It's clear the Democrats have done a complete about face on the "wall/fencing" issue because Donald Trump wants it for the country, wants to deliver it to his base because it fulfills a campaign promise to them....and if he gets it, it becomes a political loss for the Democratic Party going toward 2020 elections.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/01/border-walls-democrat-partisan-politics/
 

Felis Leo

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Remind me why we need a militarized border with a country we are not at war with?

Because otherwise many tens thousands of people who are not vetted are able to enter into our country illegally every year. If you believe that is an acceptable state of affairs, fine. I do not.
 

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Because otherwise many tens thousands of people who are not vetted are able to enter into our country illegally every year. If you believe that is an acceptable state of affairs, fine. I do not.

I am not sure why that is a big issue. Millions of unvetted Americans cross state lines every day. Does citizenship grant some magic status I am not aware of that makes someone more or less of a threat? I am still hundreds of times more likely to be killed by a fellow American from out of state than a foriegn terrorist, but I am not advocating for a wall between Florida and Georgia.
 

Fearandloathing

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land of the Free, home of the brave, not so much.

Sad to see our country unravel into cowardice.



What has bothered me is that clearly, some humanitarian aid is needed here. I am ashamed of my American roots by the tragedies unfolding there as Trump uses them a pawns in his petty ego fight with Nancy Pelosi. Shame.

These are people who got it together enough to escape whatever hell they have been living, banned together and walk for months to find safety and freedom and you offer them tear gas, concentration camps and separation of their children.

THERE IS NO NATIONAL EMERGENCY! If there was Trump would have mentioned it before he shut down the government. He never at any time during his campaign suggested this was a "national emergency" and no one can find anyone outside of the Trump cabal that thinks so. IN fact both crime AND crossing have been dropping for years.

That wall's ONLY benefit is Trump's belief it will get him elected in 2020.

Nothing he has proposed is ever good for the American people, it's only good for Trump and his cronies.
 

bongsaway

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If all you want is an honest explanation, Praxas, then I shall explain. Guarded physical barriers are generally the most effective means at preventing illegal entry into a country. Where they are put in place (and actually guarded) they tend to work quite well at preventing illegal entry. In the United States, where we have guarded barrier walls and fences, they tend to work quite well too. Physical barriers allow a nation to guard a larger stretches of land with fewer men and women needed to guard every foot along the border, acting as a force multiplier, because if people want to get through, they have to concentrate their efforts (getting several people together to help climb over at a specific point, or dig under). As a result, illegal entrants can be interdicted more easily and effectively at the points where they attempt to break through, whereas they can more easily get around unguarded parts of the border or scatter when they see guards.

That is my honest explanation, but as you say, you do not appear to care whether it is the best solution or an effective solution, because even if you were to be convinced that a barrier were effective, giving Donald Trump the funding for it would be giving someone you find morally reprehensible a political victory. So I may as well be urinating into the breeze, but I guess I am a glutton for punishment.

Would you be willing to take the money out of the defense budget for your suggestion? That much guarded wall would cost a fortune, year after year, not to mention the cost to build it and then the costs for upkeep. To me that's like digging a hole in the ocean and throwing money into it. Beside the fact a wall would make the land of the free and the home of the brave sound rather silly.
 

bongsaway

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I am not sure why that is a big issue. Millions of unvetted Americans cross state lines every day. Does citizenship grant some magic status I am not aware of that makes someone more or less of a threat? I am still hundreds of times more likely to be killed by a fellow American from out of state than a foriegn terrorist, but I am not advocating for a wall between Florida and Georgia.

Whew, had me scared there for a minute. One day I hope to escape Flori-duh.
 
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