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wales, scottland, northern ireland

Joseph

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Many people in Scottland, Wales and Northern Ireland consider themselves not British, but Scottish, Welsh, and Irish. I think that this can't be good for the great nation of England. All people living in Great Britian should forget about Scottland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and just call their nation and themselves, British. Either that, or give Northern Ireland back to the Irish, and make Wales and Scottland an independent state.

I was wondering what other people's oppinion on this was, or if there was anyone living in Wales, Scottland, or Northern Ireland that would comment on this.
 

FinnMacCool

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My family would kill you if they read this. . .well not really.

But seriously, those parts of the country have their own identity. Its important that they maintain it. I mean what a sad thing would it be to lose scottish culture. Seriously.

Perhaps if Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland all decided to remain loyal to England and United Kingdom, it would be better for them but alas it sucks cause then we lose so many great culture and identity.
 

Joseph

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I would actually prefer if Britain granted Scotland and Wales independence, and gave Northern Ireland back to Ireland. I am against, however, Cornish independence.
 

FinnMacCool

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I can't pretend to be an expert on politics over there since I'm really an american who simply is of scottish descent but isn't Scotland more like its own country now? I mean doesn't it have like its own government even though its a province?
 

iamjack

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But seriously, those parts of the country have their own identity. Its important that they maintain it.

No it's not.

Culture is cool. Collective identity is for those who can't invoke a worthwhile one for themselves. Nazi nooch.

I mean what a sad thing would it be to lose scottish culture. Seriously.

As an American who's had his Scottish heritage jammed down his throat, I can safly say that Scotland can maintain a union with other provinces, sink into the ocean, turn into a crater from an anti-matter bomb and have the human race flee to Mars after a planetwide cataclysm and Scottish culture won't go anywhere.
 

Red_Dave

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FinnMacCool said:
I can't pretend to be an expert on politics over there since I'm really an american who simply is of scottish descent but isn't Scotland more like its own country now? I mean doesn't it have like its own government even though its a province?

Scotland has its own parliament [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_parliament] but it just has authority over a limited number of "devolved matters" and its subordinate to the brittsh parliament in westminster. Theres a couple of political partys that want a completely indeapendant scotland, namely the scottish national party and the scottish socialist party. They havent got a majority in the scottish parliament so i doubt the idea is that popular. If they did there would probably be a referendum on whether scotland would become indepeandant or not.

I think some of the arguments for scottish independance are very good. Im very pro-imigration but the imigration laws for the uk as a whole are very strict as its getting a bit over populated. Scotland is very under-populated [to the extent that the economy suffers] so it could let alot more imigrants in if it was an independant country. Another good reason is that most of the profit from the oil off the coast of scotland ends up with mulinationals and the scottish national party and scottish socialist party both want to tax it so more of the profit goes to the scottish people.

As for northern ireland, it voted to stay part of the uk so i dont think the arguments for its independance are that strong.
 

GarzaUK

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As I man being born and raised in Northern Ireland. I consider myself Northern Irish first, British second and European third and I think the majority of the UK thinks the same way as I do. In Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland pro-union parties get more votes than seperation parties by quite a large margin.
Each province in the UK keeps its own culture, the patron saint of each has it's own holiday etc. I just don't see the point of seperating the UK.

If Scotland, Wales, and NI get independence, why not the Cornish? They have more in common with the Welsh than the English?

I think the UK bond is strong enough.
 

Plain old me

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I suppose if the large majority of people in Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland voted for independanc then far be it for me to stand in their way, but I do believe in a United Kingdom, a central parliament etc.

On a similar point what with devolved power to Scotland and Wales what do you all think about the idea of creating a seperate English Parliament...to handle matters relating England on a similar basis to the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly?
 

MrAchilles

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Well lets not forget all the problems between England, Scotland,Wales and N. Ireland. To make these 3 nations call themselves British would be cause for an uprising and a useless war that would last for years. I don't think it would be a good idea for England to fight three nations at one time. I mean Puerto Rico is a territory of U.S.A but you don't here them saying their Americans. Why? Because it's a different country. Same thing with Japan and Okinawa and Italy and Sicily. They may have the same languages, but different mind set. Just let Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland do their thing.
 

t125eagle

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well cornwall was never a country while wales, and scotland were. northern ireland, if they decided to, would join the rest of ireland i would think, not create 2 irelands. wales, sadly, has not been a country for almost a thousand years.
 

GarzaUK

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MrAchilles said:
Well lets not forget all the problems between England, Scotland,Wales and N. Ireland. To make these 3 nations call themselves British would be cause for an uprising and a useless war that would last for years. I don't think it would be a good idea for England to fight three nations at one time. I mean Puerto Rico is a territory of U.S.A but you don't here them saying their Americans. Why? Because it's a different country. Same thing with Japan and Okinawa and Italy and Sicily. They may have the same languages, but different mind set. Just let Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland do their thing.

What? I mean seriously what are you talking about? An uprising? A war? England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have been one country (the UK aka. The British) since 1803. The Irish rebelled, thats it.
 

GarzaUK

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Plain old me said:
On a similar point what with devolved power to Scotland and Wales what do you all think about the idea of creating a seperate English Parliament...to handle matters relating England on a similar basis to the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly?

I hear David Davis is championing this, English Mp's vote for English laws. I'm for it I guess. But isn't English and Welsh law always tied up? I mean in government figures and laws, its England and Wales, then Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own laws. England and Wales are pretty tied up.

I suppose I agree with it, if you can't decide in our N. Ireland domestic parliament (when it is functional - almost never), why should my mp's have a say in yours. But you would have to create a whole proportional rep govt (I know how much you LOVE those lol, Lib Dems would have a field day) for England , like your UK counterparts.
 

Plain old me

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GarzaUK said:
I hear David Davis is championing this, English Mp's vote for English laws. I'm for it I guess. But isn't English and Welsh law always tied up? I mean in government figures and laws, its England and Wales, then Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own laws. England and Wales are pretty tied up.

I suppose I agree with it, if you can't decide in our N. Ireland domestic parliament (when it is functional - almost never), why should my mp's have a say in yours. But you would have to create a whole proportional rep govt (I know how much you LOVE those lol, Lib Dems would have a field day) for England , like your UK counterparts.

Hmmm...I used to take an 'all or nothing' stance...either complete power to a UK parliament, with only devolved power to local councils etc, or complete devolution. However, Davis' plan seems a good idea to me (eugh, I'm agreeing with a tory, :slapme: ), cept it would put the conservatives in control of England, ah well...I suppose I'll just have to accept where democracy takes us.
 
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Joseph said:
Many people in Scottland, Wales and Northern Ireland consider themselves not British, but Scottish, Welsh, and Irish. I think that this can't be good for the great nation of England. All people living in Great Britian should forget about Scottland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and just call their nation and themselves, British. Either that, or give Northern Ireland back to the Irish, and make Wales and Scottland an independent state.

I was wondering what other people's oppinion on this was, or if there was anyone living in Wales, Scottland, or Northern Ireland that would comment on this.

England is sufficiently large enough not to need Scotland and Wales. In fact they are a burden to it. As far as your comments concerning Northern Ireland are concerned the population on that province are overwhelmingly the descendants of English and Scottish colonialists,not Irish at all. The Irish have their territory. It is called Eire, the Republic of Ireland.
I think that your thread is merely an attempt to **** stir like any good American.
Oh and the name that you are struggling for is SCOTLAND.
 

t125eagle

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i guess it would depend on what the countries wanted to do. i mean they could each break off, forming their own countries. they might even stay within the Commonwealth. or they could form Great Britain as a confederation between the nation states of England, Walese, and Scotland. and norhtern ireland if they wanted. there are possibilities.
 

Red_Dave

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Plain old me said:
I suppose if the large majority of people in Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland voted for independanc then far be it for me to stand in their way, but I do believe in a United Kingdom, a central parliament etc.

On a similar point what with devolved power to Scotland and Wales what do you all think about the idea of creating a seperate English Parliament...to handle matters relating England on a similar basis to the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly?

I reckon several different english parliaments would be a good idea. I live in the south west and i tend to hear alot of people who work in agriculture complain that part of the reason they are doing so badly is that the regulations they work by are made in westminster [or worse brussels] by people who often dont have alot of experience in agriculture. The classic example off this is the fox hunting bill where alot of well meaning city dwellers banned it thinking it would be humane. It reality however hunting foxes is the most humane way of keeping foxes under control hence why those in rural areas who actually understood it where mostly against the bill. If wessex could run its own affairs to a greater extent there would be less of a problem.
 

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Red_Dave said:
I reckon several different english parliaments would be a good idea. I live in the south west and i tend to hear alot of people who work in agriculture complain that part of the reason they are doing so badly is that the regulations they work by are made in westminster [or worse brussels] by people who often dont have alot of experience in agriculture. The classic example off this is the fox hunting bill where alot of well meaning city dwellers banned it thinking it would be humane. It reality however hunting foxes is the most humane way of keeping foxes under control hence why those in rural areas who actually understood it where mostly against the bill. If wessex could run its own affairs to a greater extent there would be less of a problem.

Hmm, the idea that these people have no idea about things doesn't hold much with me, true, there are issues that require far more expertise then MPs have, but surely the govt actually hauls in advisors, people who know these things...or maybe this is my anti-hunt bias coming into it!
 
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At times this bugs me when some Americans think British = English.

British = England, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland.

As for independence, for Scotland, and Wales, the idea is stupid. Nationalism doesn't always equate to better lives, and economies.

I say this as a Scottish born Australian. Scots, Irish, Welshmen, and the English share far more in common than what divides them.

To think that these peoples are seperate racial identies is silly, considering that people have been moving between the countries for the last 2 millenia.

Sure Scots, Welsh and Irish are descendents of the Celts, and original British tribes, but the Saxons, Angles, and Normans to some extent, did intermingle and migrate into these communities, but not to the point where they were ever a majority.

So if you consider that the Scots, Irish, the Welsh, and the English, are just different proportaions of all the various tribes that have inhabited Britain of the millenia, then British seems the best collective term for a resident of the British Isles.
 

t125eagle

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of course they are racially the same. ethnically is another matter. scottish and irish are really close as is english. welsh is probably the most gallic of them all.
 

GarzaUK

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The actual fact is that the British Isles is a whole melting pot of caucasian races. Angles, Saxons, Vikings, Celts, Welsh, Picts, Scots, Irish, Mercians, Normans, Romans, Germans.

For example my family descends from Southern England, Scotland and France. My last name comes from Somerset, yet I'm as Irish as a ginger midget dressed in green apparantly lol. Strange World.
 

t125eagle

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lol. nice imagery!
 
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