Wafa Sultan tells the truth about Isalm (a must see)

Wafa Sultan is a Syrian born American Psychiatrist. She has appeared on al Jazeera in debates on Islam and its role in the modern world. This is a quote of her on al Jazeera "The trouble with Islam is deeply rooted in its teachings. Islam is not only a religion. Islam (is) also a political ideology that preaches violence and applies its agenda by force". These videos are a must see for anyone seeking the truth. This woman gives me hope that all muslims will someday peacefully coexhist with non-believers.

Wikipedia - Wafa Sultan Wafa Sultan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is good to see her confront muslim clerics. It is refreashing to hear her tell it like it is. ~ Sgt Rock

YouTube - Wafa Sultan speaks up

YouTube - A "crack in the wall" - Wafa Sultan on the mohammed cartoons

YouTube - Wafa Sultan-Terrorism and Islam (New)

Great videos, SgtRock, thanks.

Here is another video of this kind, of Brigitte Gabriel who is an American who was born in Lebanon.

I am familiar with Brigitte Gabriel, and Nonie Darwish. I noticed that women are standing up and telling the truth. This does not surprise me, with the way women in islamic society are treated. Walid Shobate is a former PLO terrorist. He is one of the only men standing up for the truth. I hope more will follow.
I am happy to see that muslims and former muslims are out there standing up to the madness. ~ Sgt Rock

SgtRock said:

Walid Shobate is a former PLO terrorist. He is one of the only men standing up for the truth.

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHcWd5AFnzQ[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGQEPdc48_c&mode=related&search=[/youtube]

OMG the muslims are just so stupid and evil huh?

Troll much?

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Anyways a friend of mine a lecture Walid Shobate gave on how young kids are recruited to be terrorists. It's incredible.

Makhno said:

OMG the muslims are just so stupid and evil huh?

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Any person who would make this woman a second class citizen because of her gender sure are.


Those who wouldn't aren't.

Gardener said:

Any person who would make this woman a second class citizen because of her gender sure are.


Those who wouldn't aren't.

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Those who wouldn't, aren't Muslims.

The Koran elaborates: it requires the testimony of two women to offset that of one man (2:282) and every girl deserves exactly one-half her brother’s share of inheritance (4:11)

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This isnt open to debate. One believes this or one is not a Muslim.

Voidwar said:

Those who wouldn't, aren't Muslims.



This isnt open to debate. One believes this or one is not a Muslim.

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It is true that these passages are in the Quran and that there are untold masses of those who believe in every word of such. Indeed, there is great pressure placed upon Muslims by other Muslims to conform.

THat being said, I don't automatically assume that any person associated with an ideology believes in every single doctrine down to the last detail and that it is possible to be Muslim without complete conformity to such doctrines. If there is to ever be a resolutuion of the conflict between Islam and the west, the solution will come from those who DON"T believe in every last word and so we should be supporting those open minded and critical enough to retain their Muslim identity while stopping short ofcompletesubmission to every word.

When they went after Nick Griffin for telling the truth about Islam, the bigger motivation was getting the leader of the BNP in jail.

It was a measure of persecution rather than freedom, a nice hoped-for book-throwing to get in the statute books to make it easier to persecute normal people. Griffin's speech was a godsend for this first run. Indeed, Times journalist Rod Liddle was told by one of the higher-ups in the police that had he articulated and published those words instead of Griffin then he would have been left alone. Liddle himself let us know this.

The biggest danger to Britain is NOT Islam. It's the Lefties who allow it to grow with only a tiny fraction of the surveillance it warrants. It's the Left who misunderstand Islam, who defend all but the bombings and who stand by as malevolent Muslim groups demand (and get) special civic concessions and even legal immunities (d'ya want your sadistically slaughtered dinner with your interest free mortgage on your Islamics only swimming pool, mate?).

It is the Left who 'defend to the death' the right of Muslims to say almost whatever they please whilst keeping a hawk's eye on everyone else in the country, Jews included, to see that these lovely Muslims go without their feelings hurt by a slip of the tongue.

Muslims can behave themselves just as anyone else can. You just need to let them know they'll be no guff taken from them. But when you enforce their self-made 'victim' status then there's no holding 'em.

MickB said:

Muslims can behave themselves just as anyone else can. You just need to let them know they'll be no guff taken from them. But when you enforce their self-made 'victim' status then there's no holding 'em.

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Spot on!

Here's another similar opinion in this isssue:

There are those that claim that Arab and Muslim states are immune from criticism, because they are not democratic, but Israel is more worthy of criticism because it has democratic pretences. Claims like this are Orientalism at its worst. The covert assumption is that the Arabs and the Muslims are the retarded child of the world. They are allowed. It is not only Orientalism. It is racism.

The Arabs and the Muslims are not children and they are not retarded. Many Arabs and Muslims know this and write about it. They know that only an end to the self-deception and a taking of responsibility will lead to change. They know that as long as the west treats them as unequal and irresponsible it is lending a hand not only to a racist attitude, but also, and mainly, to a continuation of their mass murder.

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çãùåú NRG - A Homemade Genocide

Gardener said:

THat being said, I don't automatically assume that any person associated with an ideology believes in every single doctrine down to the last detail and that it is possible to be Muslim without complete conformity to such doctrines.

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Islam is not a cafeteria-style, take what you like, religion.
Islam is all or nothing.
Your second party assumptions are neither accurate nor relevant.

Here's an important video of Walid Shobate:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SRUVXOe6ho&mode=related&search=[/youtube]
YouTube - Ex Muslim Terrorist Defends Jews

Voidwar said:

Islam is not a cafeteria-style, take what you like, religion.
Islam is all or nothing.

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While true, there are progressive Muslims, Muslim clerics that disagree on points of doctrine, and all the rest that goes with being one of the world's greatest religions. So yes, there are Muslims that feel differently in spite of the Qur'an. It is the great paradox of spirituality and religion.

Let's not forget that Aisha was something of a king-maker, and was personally responsible for the deaths of 2 Caliphs, IIRC, including Ali. Let's not forget that Khadijah and Fatima were not only allowed but encouraged by Mohammed to speak their minds to the chagrin of the patriarchy extant at the time. Without Khadijah, there would be no Islam. There are exceptions and contradictions even in Muslim doctrine as evidenced by both its history and its present incarnations.

Wyrmdog said:

While true, there are progressive Muslims, Muslim clerics that disagree on points of doctrine, and all the rest that goes with being one of the world's greatest religions. So yes, there are Muslims that feel differently in spite of the Qur'an. It is the great paradox of spirituality and religion.

Let's not forget that Aisha was something of a king-maker, and was personally responsible for the deaths of 2 Caliphs, IIRC, including Ali. Let's not forget that Khadijah and Fatima were not only allowed but encouraged by Mohammed to speak their minds to the chagrin of the patriarchy extant at the time. Without Khadijah, there would be no Islam. There are exceptions and contradictions even in Muslim doctrine as evidenced by both its history and its present incarnations.

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Aisha was a child and Mohammad was in my opinion a pedophile and an evil SOB.

These videos are a must see for anyone seeking the truth.

YouTube - Re: Wafa Sultan-Terrorism and Islam (New)

Voidwar said:

Islam is not a cafeteria-style, take what you like, religion.
Islam is all or nothing.
Your second party assumptions are neither accurate nor relevant.

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amazing.

did you ever think that maybe some muslims interpret things in the quran differently than other muslims? Do you think thats maybe why theres so many sects?

or maybe every single muslim believes in exactly what those deranged mullahs call "islam", the same teachings that make people like you hate anything even remotely related to islam.

seeing as how everyone on this board is in "i love to stereotype land" i think ill go with choice 2.


i have a site for you voidwar: Al Islam Online - Ahmadiyya Muslim Community

go to the library section and read up a bit. that is Islam coming from a non-fanatical point of view. the point of view of 240 million muslims world wide.

You are right about one thing, everyone should read up a bit. If you read the Quran you can come to know the true meaning of Islam. Here are some quotes that will help you to understand Islam.

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."

Qur'an:33:22 "Among the Believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah and have gone out for Jihad (holy fighting). Some have completed their vow to extreme and have been martyred fighting and dying in His Cause, and some are waiting, prepared for death in battle."

Qur'an:47:4 "So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

Qur'an:8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Qur'an:8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."

Qur'an 24:1 "(This is) a surah which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful. For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."

Qur'an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

Qur'an 5:73 "They are surely disbelievers who blaspheme and say: ‘God is one of three in the Trinity for there is no Ilah (God) except One, Allah. If they desist not from saying this (blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall them—the disbelievers will suffer a painful doom."

These are just a few of many. I could go on but I think you get the message. Islam is a religion of peace. Is it not? ~ Sgt Rock

clone19 said:

did you ever think that maybe some muslims interpret things in the quran differently than other muslims? Do you think thats maybe why theres so many sects?

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There are "2" sects. Just like Christianity. What you probably mean to say is that their are many divisions (tribes) within the sects. But even with this statement, the major disagreements in Islam are divided amongst the two sects, not the tribes. And the number one disagreement goes back 14 centuries after Muhammed's death. This disagreement was so strong and had such an impact, that Islam would see the emergence of the Shia and bloody violence would continue in the 21st century.

Inconvenient interpretations in the Qu'ran (like the Bible) are mostly irrelevant and insiginificant.

clone19 said:

go to the library section and read up a bit. that is Islam coming from a non-fanatical point of view. the point of view of 240 million muslims world wide.

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Well, here's the problem. The one individual that is the focus point of true Islam is Muhammed. Peaceful Muslims and fanatical Muslims both reach back and produce his example to validate certain behaviors throughout history. And despite Christianity's willingness to dive into violence at times in history, Jesus Christ has been Christianity's saving grace. Both religions go back to the prophets. Were Muhammed a Jesus Christ type figure, perhaps Islam would be much healthier today.

Your non-fanatical point of view can trace his behavior back to Muhammed. Problem is, so can the fanatic Radical. So what exaclty is blasphemy in Islam? This is the 14 century struggle.

Re: Wafa Sultan tells the truth about Islam (a must see)

Here, as part of a satirical website, is a collection of webpages which help illustrate just how much of a violent and psychopathic faith Islam really is.

The Koran, Sunnah and Hadith are the three original 'encyclopeadias' of Islam, from which everything else has sprouted, for example Sharia.

CLUB ISLAM

GySgt said:

There are "2" sects. Just like Christianity. What you probably mean to say is that their are many divisions (tribes) within the sects. But even with this statement, the major disagreements in Islam are divided amongst the two sects, not the tribes. And the number one disagreement goes back 14 centuries after Muhammed's death. This disagreement was so strong and had such an impact, that Islam would see the emergence of the Shia and bloody violence would continue in the 21st century.

Inconvenient interpretations in the Qu'ran (like the Bible) are mostly irrelevant and insiginificant.



Well, here's the problem. The one individual that is the focus point of true Islam is Muhammed. Peaceful Muslims and fanatical Muslims both reach back and produce his example to validate certain behaviors throughout history. And despite Christianity's willingness to dive into violence at times in history, Jesus Christ has been Christianity's saving grace. Both religions go back to the prophets. Were Muhammed a Jesus Christ type figure, perhaps Islam would be much healthier today.

Your non-fanatical point of view can trace his behavior back to Muhammed. Problem is, so can the fanatic Radical. So what exaclty is blasphemy in Islam? This is the 14 century struggle.

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first off, there are more than 2 sects in islam. the american heritage dictionary calls a sect: "A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice. " There are well over a hundred distinct groups within "Islam". You can call them whatever you want, by definition, they are sects. The main cause of difference and dispute is usually interpretation of the Quran. If you would like i could have a version of the Quran i follow, with a very good commentary explaining the true meaning of all the verses listed above.

The Quran is by no means entirely literal. In Surah Al-Imran Allah says, "He it is who has sent down to thee the book: in it there are verses that are decisive in meaning - they are the basis of the book - and there are others that are susceptible of different interpretations. But those in whose hearts is perversity pursue such thereof as are susceptible of different interpretations, seeking discord and seeking WRONG interpretation of it. And none knows its right interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge ; they say, "We believe in it ; the whole is from our lord." - And none heed except those gifted with understanding". (Chapter 3, verse 8/9)

Here Allah settles this dispute for us. He says there are those that would twist the meaning of the Quran to justify their own actions. We must not let them cloud our own understanding of the Quran.

Studying the Quran is more of a science than anything. To understand what a verse means you need to take in accound the chapter it is in, when it was revealed, the verses pre and succeeding it, where it was revealed, how it was revealed and a number of different variables. Only then can you understand the true meaning.

once again, i refer you to Al Islam Online - Ahmadiyya Muslim Community for further reading.

If you would like a copy of a Quran with my sects interpretation of it mailed to you, pm me. I can assure you the Author is very well read, and his understanding of Islam is well beyond anything i can offer you.

There have been, according to a site which blames all of Islam for Islamofascism, 5,568 “deadly acts of terror” since the 9/11 attacks. Assuming this to be true, and assuming (generously) that each act had been carried out by a different person, that works out to be about one act of terror for every 197,557 Muslims.

One in about 198,000.

I wonder if Wafa Sultan will ever get around to telling this truth.

Re: Wafa Sultan tells the truth about Islam (a must see)

Hang on, I'm confused about something here.

Why do we need super-brainbox scholars who have spent all their lives looking at the subject to tell us how to 'interpret' the Koran?

The Koran was written for the brainless yobs from the harsh desert scrub to read and understand, despite its two-left-feet approach to prose.

Any real problems in interpreting the book comes from the fact that when Mohammad was friendless and on his uppers he dictated the more tolerant verses found there. However, come his years of conquest and colonisation we see the more brutal 'kill them and terrorise them' stuff needed to subjugate the defeated peoples. Remember Europe was terrorised by Islamic hordes twice in as many millennia already, with the Crusades being a reaction and not an act of aggression.

Despite the policy of abrogation, the fact the Koran isn't in chronological order just adds to the confusion.

Hmmm, maybe we DO need this learned men to untangle it all for us. However, I doubt we'll see the conclusion obvious to all who can see the wood for the trees: Islam was merely a vehicle for megalomaniacal world conquest on the part of a lunatic who himself confessed to being plagued by devils!

Re: Wafa Sultan tells the truth about Islam (a must see)

Hang on, I'm confused about something here.

Why do we need super-brainbox scholars who have spent all their lives looking at the subject to tell us how to 'interpret' the Koran?

The Koran was written for the brainless yobs from the harsh desert scrub to read and understand, despite its two-left-feet approach to prose.

Any real problems in interpreting the book comes from the fact that when Mohammad was friendless and on his uppers he dictated the more tolerant verses found there. However, come his years of conquest and colonisation we see the more brutal 'kill them and terrorise them' stuff needed to subjugate the defeated peoples. Remember Europe was terrorised by Islamic hordes twice in as many millennia already, with the Crusades being a reaction and not an act of aggression.

Despite the policy of abrogation, the fact the Koran isn't in chronological order just adds to the confusion.

Hmmm, maybe we DO need these learned men to untangle it all for us. However, I doubt we'll see the conclusion obvious to all who can see the wood for the trees: Islam was merely a vehicle for megalomaniacal world conquest on the part of a lunatic who himself confessed to being plagued by devils!

"There have been, according to a site which blames all of Islam for Islamofascism, 5,568 “deadly acts of terror” since the 9/11 attacks. Assuming this to be true, and assuming (generously) that each act had been carried out by a different person, that works out to be about one act of terror for every 197,557 Muslims.

One in about 198,000.

I wonder if Wafa Sultan will ever get around to telling this truth."

What about all the sympathisers and those just brimming with passive-aggressiveness? When news of September 11 spread around the world, the Muslim market traders of Bradford, for example, erupted with shouts of joy and congratulation.

And what of all the thwarted terror attempts? The intelligence services are worked in a manner not seen since the Cold War to stop the Muslims from detonating everything in England.

A recent survey conducted by respected pollsters You Gov found that a staggering 94% of 'British' Muslims aren't committed to the British Crown.

And as for Wafa, she was brought up in a seething Islamic atmosphere of hatred for the infidel, particularly the Israelites.

Why empathise with these people? They have their choice, just like us in what to believe. Indeed, many have shown their true fascist colours by howling that Shipley MP Philip Davies' view that mosques should fly our national flag would be an act of ramming British values down their intolerant throats!