[W:#995]Pelosi banned from receiving communion in San Francisco archdiocese over her position on abortion

[ClaraD]

Which instruction of the Pope is that? He has gone on the record saying that pro-abortion politicians are outside of the Catholic community and cannot take communion. So many liberal media outlets are focused on two parts of the Pope’s statement:

1. Pastors shouldn’t go condemning people based on their abortion stances.
2. He has personally never denied communion to anyone for this reason.

But, the full context is that he says pastors should not condemn individuals because they are pastors even to everyone, including people outside of the community. However, he still labels politicians who support abortion to be “outside of the community” and said people outside of the community should be denied communion. His statement that he never denied communion for this reason was only half of his statement that it was because he wasn’t aware of one who came to him to receive it.

Abortion and the Eucharist: What did the pope just say?

A Pillar Explainer

www.pillarcatholic.com

where did Pope Francis go on record saying that pro choice politicians cannot partake of Communion.....he said the opposite.

 

[ClaraD]

This ignores how people can be influential. How do you think any politician manages to get elected?

show me where she has ever told a constituent they should get an abortion or assisted them financially in doing so.

 

[Overitall]

show me where she has ever told a constituent they should get an abortion or assisted them financially in doing so.

Nope.

 

[ClaraD]

Nope.

then she is not influencing anything.

 

[Overitall]

then she is not influencing anything.

Then how does she manage to get elected?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I guess you didn’t comprehend my comment. I assume when you say “the church” you are speaking about the “universal Catholic Church”.

Nope, I'm talking about ANY organized, hierarchic, religious group.

I’m not a part of that. I’m a born again, Spirit filled Christian. I have experienced the Pentecostal baptism in the Holy Ghost.

Yep, and your "Pentecostal" organized, hierarchic, religious group SAYS that "The Bible" is the "Word of God".

Like I said, the natural man/mind cannot understand that.

Since I can quite understand that "belief" and "knowledge" do NOT mean the same thing, I guess that I don't have a "natural mind".

You have no argument friend. Forget it about all of your pontificating. I’m not listening.

Of course you aren't listening you wish to continue "believing".

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

question is why are so many right wing Catholics not denied Communion for supporting the death penalty?

The correct translation is NOT "Thou shalt not kill.", but rather it is "Thou shalt not murder."

Once the infliction of death has been sanctioned by the church/government it ceases to be "murder" and, thus, is completely OK - theologically.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

very few people are going to agree with every belief that their religion or faith has. The main component should not be if you are 100% on board with your Church...it should be if you are 100% on board with God.

And the question that you should ask anyone who questions you about it is

"Who are you to tell me that I shouldn't believe the way that God tells me to believe?"​

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

one of the 10 commandments is bearing false witness....iow lying.

That only applies to "witnessing" - which is "spreading the gospel".

 

[GummyVitamins]

where did Pope Francis go on record saying that pro-choice politicians cannot partake of Communion.....he said the opposite.
[/B]

The posts you're responding to has a quotes from Pope speaking directly to reporters. That's what being on the record means. Again, read his quotes in full rather than cutting them up to mean what you want them to mean.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Lmao you never seen a local priest own a jet airplane or live in a mansion have you?

Matter of fact.....

The lavish homes of American archbishops

Records reveal that 10 of the country's top church leaders defy the Pope's example and live in residences worth more than $1 million.

www.cnn.com

"Among archbishops, Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York leads the pack with this 15,000-square-foot mansion on Madison Avenue, in one of the priciest corridors of Manhattan. Vanderbilt Appraisal Company, a New York firm hired by CNN to estimate the building's value, said it's worth at least $30 million. Dolan shares the neo-Gothic mansion, which is reportedly filled with thick red carpets and priceless antiques, with three other priests."

"Chicago's Cardinal Francis George lives in a pretty fancy crib, too. This mansion has 19 chimneys and sits on 1.7 acres of prime real estate in Chicago's ritzy Gold Coast neighborhood. It's worth $14.3 million "as is," but the property could fetch far more, appraisers told CNN"

"In addition to regal residences, many archbishops acquire other perks: live-in assistants, housekeepers, chauffeurs and cooks. Others live alone in roomy residences.

Archbishop James Sartain of Seattle, for example, lives by himself in this three-story house. The appraised value is $3.84 million, according to the King County Department of Assessments."

And it just goes on and on from there.

 

[jmotivator]

very few people are going to agree with every belief that their religion or faith has. The main component should not be if you are 100% on board with your Church...it should be if you are 100% on board with God.

Cool, find a faith that accepts your interpretation of faith and communion.

Spoiler: It's not the Catholic Church.

 

[Bear5131]

Matter of fact.....

The lavish homes of American archbishops

Records reveal that 10 of the country's top church leaders defy the Pope's example and live in residences worth more than $1 million.

www.cnn.com

View attachment 67392478
"Among archbishops, Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York leads the pack with this 15,000-square-foot mansion on Madison Avenue, in one of the priciest corridors of Manhattan. Vanderbilt Appraisal Company, a New York firm hired by CNN to estimate the building's value, said it's worth at least $30 million. Dolan shares the neo-Gothic mansion, which is reportedly filled with thick red carpets and priceless antiques, with three other priests."
View attachment 67392479
"Chicago's Cardinal Francis George lives in a pretty fancy crib, too. This mansion has 19 chimneys and sits on 1.7 acres of prime real estate in Chicago's ritzy Gold Coast neighborhood. It's worth $14.3 million "as is," but the property could fetch far more, appraisers told CNN"
View attachment 67392481
"In addition to regal residences, many archbishops acquire other perks: live-in assistants, housekeepers, chauffeurs and cooks. Others live alone in roomy residences.

Archbishop James Sartain of Seattle, for example, lives by himself in this three-story house. The appraised value is $3.84 million, according to the King County Department of Assessments."

And it just goes on and on from there.

They don't own it

 

[jmotivator]

she doesn't promote abortion. She has never said she agrees with having an abortion nor has she advocated for a person to have one....there is a difference in believing in each person makes their own choice and advocating for something. A lie is also a sin.

I've already provided the quote from her speech at NARAL. I could also provide you with her voting record on funding Planned Parenthood, she even tried to use COVID funding to fund abortion, as well as the donations from Planned Parenthood to her campaign... she received a fricking Margaret Sanger Award, for crying out loud!

And the Archbishop RIGHTLY sees this as providing aid and support for committing the sin of abortion.

You don't get a say, sorry.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Catholic Church: stop using our religion to justify killing innocent human life.

Liberals: when did the Catholic Church get so political?

A bad misspelling of a commonly known historical figure and salad dressing.

Misspelling the name of a historical figure is far preferable to posting ignorant nonsense. Care to explain just who is using the Catholic Religion to justify the killing of innocent human life? And exactly how it is they are doing so?

 

[Atomic Kid]

They don't own it

The Catholic Church does however. And you said "live in a mansion". Not owning a mansion. How can they justify their Archbishops and Cardinals living in such lavish luxury when the primary mission of the Church is supposedly caring for the poor and marginalized? Below is where Pope Francis lives. n a small suite in the Vatican guesthouse.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

They don't own it

Indeed they don't.

The houses are owned by the RCC Inc. which is a totally tax exempt organization. The RCC Inc. doesn't even pay municipal taxes, so they are being provided with police and fire protection free (as far as it is concerned) and (except in jurisdictions where things like "water rates", "sewage rates", "garbage collection rates" and "street maintenance rates" are assessed as "levies" (i.e. on a "per household" basis and not based on the value of the property) they get their water needs, sewage removal, and garbage collection free of charge (as far as it is concerned) as well.

That means that (to invent an example) if the RCC Inc. owned a house in a city that was 95% Buddhist, then 95% of the cost of their police protection, fire protection, water supply, sewage and garbage removal would be being paid for by non-Catholics (and non-Christians at that).

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The Catholic Church does however. And you said "live in a mansion". Not owning a mansion. How can they justify their Archbishops and Cardinals living in such lavish luxury when the primary mission of the Church is supposedly caring for the poor and marginalized? Below is where Pope Francis lives. n a small suite in the Vatican guesthouse.

View attachment 67392490

That is a CHOICE that the current Pope has made for himself (and one that overturned centuries of established practice).

You might be interested in seeing a bit of the "alternate accommodation" that the Pope is entitled to the use of. If so, take a look at

See how a Pope vacations - (just not this one!) Luxurious Papal apartments are opened to the public for the first time after Francis refused to stay there because they are too plush
(from The Daily Mail)​

 

[Crunchtime]

Nope, I'm talking about ANY organized, hierarchic, religious group.

Yep, and your "Pentecostal" organized, hierarchic, religious group SAYS that "The Bible" is the "Word of God".

Since I can quite understand that "belief" and "knowledge" do NOT mean the same thing, I guess that I don't have a "natural mind".

Of course you aren't listening you wish to continue "believing".

All those letters below your flag tell me all I need to know. The mind you have, even with all of your accomplishments, is the one you were born with. It’s a natural mind. To have the mind of the Spirit you must be born of the Spirit. If you were born of the Spirit, which you are not, you would KNOW that the Bible is the word of God. Like I said. You have no argument.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

All those letters below your flag tell me all I need to know. The mind you have, even with all of your accomplishments, is the one you were born with. It’s a natural mind. To have the mind of the Spirit you must be born of the Spirit. If you were born of the Spirit, which you are not, you would KNOW that the Bible is the word of God. Like I said. You have no argument.

Indeed, I believe what I believe (and I do not confuse "belief" with "knowledge").

Besides, who are you to tell me that I shouldn't believe the way that God tells me to believe?

Do I tell you that you are wrong to believe the way that God tells you to believe? No I don't.

Did Jesus say "Judge not, lest ye be judged." (in Aramaic, of course)? Yes he did.

Does that mean that God is the one who gets to do the judging? Yes it does.

What is there about you that gives you a superior power to judge than God has?

 

[Crunchtime]

Indeed, I believe what I believe (and I do not confuse "belief" with "knowledge").

Besides, who are you to tell me that I shouldn't believe the way that God tells me to believe?

Do I tell you that you are wrong to believe the way that God tells you to believe? No I don't.

Did Jesus say "Judge not, lest ye be judged." (in Aramaic, of course)? Yes he did.

Does that mean that God is the one who gets to do the judging? Yes it does.

What is there about you that gives you a superior power to judge than God has?

We’ll, the old fall back, “who are you….” A question. What did I say that was judgmental? I have no idea about what you believe other than your comments about the word of God which were derogatory. (In English, of course).

 

[Lursa]

I'd like to comment on this last statement from your post:

"There are many more tolerant and loving Christian sects, ones that more closely follow God's actual Word"

The first clause in your statement is predicated upon the second clause, and I do not believe you have the ability to make the claim in your second clause, as it's simply not in your mortal providence to know, "God's actual Word". It's fine to state it as opinion, but it is not a valid definable or evidenced claim, besides your assertion.

Never said "actual Word." I said it was His overall Message throughout the New Testment. Representative of His Expectations of us and how we treat others.

"It's provably accurate. The Catholic Church invented a bunch of crap from whole cloth...I wrote this earlier. There's no popes in the Bible, for instance. And their history of torture, war, violence, coercion, repression, intolerance/hate, avarice, etc etc etc is more evidence.​

​

God's Word is clear in the Bible, it's the overarching message throughout the New Testament. Anything that doesnt break God's Word of compassion, brotherly love, forgiveness, and peace isnt a sin.​

​

All the rest is manufactured or misinterpreted (in some cases possibly with good intent) by fallible men of the times."​

​

--and--​

​

"I posted it for you. It's the overall Message of the New Testament. If you have something specific to dispute, feel free."​

 

[GummyVitamins]

Misspelling the name of a historical figure is far preferable to posting ignorant nonsense. Care to explain just who is using the Catholic Religion to justify the killing of innocent human life?

Pelosi, according to the Archbishop. Have you not read anything about this topic?

And exactly how it is they are doing so?

By making public statements linking her Catholic faith with her abortion position. Have you not read anything about this topic?

 

[Atomic Kid]

The CC is not getting into politics. It's practicing its religion which is protected by the first amendment.

Seem to recall it saying something about the abridgement of the freedom of speech too. And while it protects the free practice of religion it also has an establishment clause that prohibits Congress from making laws establishing or promoting any one religion over another. During the wave of state abortion bans passed this spring, elected officials around the United States, the overwhelming majority of which being white male republicans, routinely invoked God and religion to justify stripping individuals of the constitutional right to make decisions about our own bodies. In Dobbs vs Jackson when a lawyer described Roe v. Wade as “the right to end a human life.” Sotomayor stepped in, asking, “How is your interest anything but a religious view?- "The issue of when life begins has been hotly debated by philosophers since the beginning of time — it’s still debated in religions,” she said. “So, when you say this is the only right that takes away from the state the ability to protect a life, that’s a religious view, isn’t it?”

So when the religious Christian Right speak of abortion as a religious freedom issue - whose religious freedom are we talking about? Judaism for instance doesn't teach that life begins at conception. According to Jewish law, abortion is not only permitted; it is required if a pregnancy endangers the life or health of the pregnant individual. And Judaism isn't the only religion to permit abortion. Muslim Americans can also make the same argument. Along with a number of other religious groups. Why does the religious position of a particular religious group have to be the law of the land superimposed on a very diverse polity?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

We’ll, the old fall back, “who are you….” A question. What did I say that was judgmental?

Obviously you don't read your own posts. Your clear belief is that anyone who does not subscribe to the same sub-set of "Christianity" as you do is **W*R*O*N*G**.

I have no idea about what you believe

And that isn't actually any problem for me, since I don't insist that everyone answer to the same "Voice of God" as I do.

other than your comments about the word of God which were derogatory. (In English, of course).

What I said about "The Word of God" is that YOU have been TOLD (and you "believe") that "The Bible" (which is primarily a historical record interspersed with what the writer said was the message which he received from a specially designated "Messenger of God" [plus inter-lineages and marginalia for clarification and explanation] - for the "Old Testament" [and which isn't any part of "Christianity"] and witness descriptions of what some other person did/said [plus explanatory notes] which did NOT claim to be "divinely inspired revelations" - for the "New Testament") is "The Word of God".

That is hardly derogatory (in English [or any other language]) to "The Word of God".

"The Qu'ran" has a much better provenance for being an accurate recording of the actual words of Mohamed recounting his "divine revelations" of "The Word of God" than "The Bible" does for containing "The Word of God".

"The Book of Mormon" has a much better provenance for being an accurate recording of the actual words of delivered to Joseph Smith in written form by God's Messenger that contained "The Word of God" than "The Bible" does for containing "The Word of God".

Are any of them ACTUALLY "The Word of God"? I have no idea - God hasn't told me.

Are any of them NOT ACTUALLY "The Word of God"? I have no idea - God hasn't told me.

If God has actually spoken to you and told you which of them is ACTUALLY "The Word of God", I am impressed.

If the person who told you which of them is ACTUALLY "The Word of God", then I'll wait until I have some evidence that God actually spoke directly to them and told them before taking their word for it.