[W:963][W:#588][W:#502]Transgender swimmer destroying records

[Phys251]

What is transgender ideology? I hear that claim a lot but there is no definition of exactly what it is.

It must be like the "gay agenda."

 

[Lisa]

It must be like the "gay agenda."

I still don't know what that is. My gay friends won't tell me. Personally, the gay agenda is equal rights for gay people but judging by the number of times the religious right have set their hair on fire over it there must be something much more subversive to it.

 

[Integrityrespec]

That's just it--people such as Gatsby are blowing their stacks over trans women participating in women's sports. Oh god the horror!

Meanwhile, way, way more trans people, particularly trans youth, are forced to face all kinds of problems in their lives.

But wait, it gets worse. Hormone therapy would help with this. If nothing else, youth who want them would be more likely to pass and could avoid some of the bullying, harassment, and discrimination. And the transphobes want to stop that, too!

(BTW it's transgender, not "transgendered.")

Trans women are not women. Forcing biological women to compete against men is unfair to biological women. Ask Kaitlyn Jenner, who would have about as good sense of what is happening as anyone in that arena. Men who become Women, are not biologically women and they have natural advantages from years of growing up as a male. So you are ok with punishing women for being women.

 

[Integrityrespec]

I still don't know what that is. My gay friends won't tell me. Personally, the gay agenda is equal rights for gay people but judging by the number of times the religious right have set their hair on fire over it there must be something much more subversive to it.

But equal rights for gay people and men participating in womens athletics isn't the same thing. You realize we have classifications in sports to help equalize competition. Boxing for instance, heavyweights don't fight welterweights, unfair. Men competing against women, unfair.

 

[Integrityrespec]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/20/caitlyn-jenner-transgender-athletes-womens-sports/

 

[Phys251]

Trans women are not women.

Gender is a construct, so what are you on about this time?

Forcing biological women to compete against men is unfair to biological women. Ask Kaitlyn Jenner, who would have about as good sense of what is happening as anyone in that arena. Men who become Women, are not biologically women and they have natural advantages from years of growing up as a male. So you are ok with punishing women for being women.

 

[Gatsby]

What is transgender ideology? I hear that claim a lot but there is no definition of exactly what it is.

Helen Joyce (via Jesse Signal) summed up its main points reasonably well:

According to Joyce, a longtime staffer at The Economist, most people “understand the call for ‘trans rights’ to mean compassionate concessions that enable a suffering minority to live full lives, in safety and dignity.” Joyce endorses this idea. Her bête noire is what she calls gender-identity ideology, which holds that everyone has a “gender identity,” an internal sense of being male or female (or both or neither), that is, in most tellings, innate and immutable, “something like a sexed soul.” When someone’s gender identity conflicts with their body, and/or with how society views their body, that person is transgender.

Trans Rights and Gender Identity (Published 2021)

In “Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality,” Helen Joyce argues that sex is not just a social construct.

www.nytimes.com

Obviously the ideology is more complex than this summary, but these are the highlights.

How and who is it abusive to? You seem to be very triggered. Would you like a cup of herbal tea?

A dude attacked you for saying "transgendered" instead of "transgender" and your response is to say that you deserve it. That sounds like abuse to me.

I don't expect you to ever acknowledge it here, if you don't want to. But I want to let you know that most men in the world outside of this belief system will not treat you like this, and if you ever want out of this ideology, you can PM me and I will try to help however I can. No one else on this forum would need to know.

Have a good evening.

 

[Phys251]

I still don't know what that is. My gay friends won't tell me. Personally, the gay agenda is equal rights for gay people but judging by the number of times the religious right have set their hair on fire over it there must be something much more subversive to it.

 

[Lisa]

Helen Joyce (via Jesse Signal) summed up its main points reasonably well:

According to Joyce, a longtime staffer at The Economist, most people “understand the call for ‘trans rights’ to mean compassionate concessions that enable a suffering minority to live full lives, in safety and dignity.” Joyce endorses this idea. Her bête noire is what she calls gender-identity ideology, which holds that everyone has a “gender identity,” an internal sense of being male or female (or both or neither), that is, in most tellings, innate and immutable, “something like a sexed soul.” When someone’s gender identity conflicts with their body, and/or with how society views their body, that person is transgender.

Trans Rights and Gender Identity (Published 2021)

In “Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality,” Helen Joyce argues that sex is not just a social construct.

www.nytimes.com

Obviously the ideology is more complex than this summary, but these are the highlights.

A dude attacked you for saying "transgendered" instead of "transgender" and your response is to say that you deserve it. That sounds like abuse to me.

I don't expect you to ever acknowledge it here, if you don't want to. But I want to let you know that most men in the world outside of this belief system will not treat you like this, and if you ever want out of this ideology, you can PM me and I will try to help however I can. No one else on this forum would need to know.

Have a good evening.

That is the very basic definition of gender identity and what it means to be transgender. It is not some evil secret ideology.

gender identity​

one’s self-identification as male or female. Although the dominant approach in psychology for many years had been to regard gender identity as residing in individuals, the important influence of societal structures, cultural expectations, and personal interactions in its development is now recognized as well. Significant evidence now exists to support the conceptualization of gender identity as influenced by both environmental and biological factors. See cisgender; gender constancy; transgender. See also gender role.

APA Dictionary of Psychology

A trusted reference in the field of psychology, offering more than 25,000 clear and authoritative entries.

dictionary.apa.org

Phys251 didn't attack me. You seem to have skin that is thinner than tissue paper.

You would not survive for very long in my circle of friends who view sarcasm as a form of flirting. I find it very attractive when a guy can respond to my sarcasm with equal sarcasm instead of being put off or insulted. Sarcasm is my default tone and apparently, mine is so advanced that I was taken by a former psychologist with an anti-social personality disorder because she didn't know that I was being sarcastic. She thought that I was serious.

 

[Aristaeus]

Finally.

Whether she is depends on your definition. Remember way back when, you gave that multi-part definition? Well, she doesn't fall cleanly into either category. Intersex, man, it breaks your definition!



"Biology." There's that forced-gender dog whistle again.

But men/womens sport is divided based on biology.

Sex and gender are not the same thing.
Sport is divided based on sex.
Sport is not divided based on gender. Where's the logic in insisting that a male should be able to compete in the female category because they 'feel like a woman'?

 

[Phys251]

But men/womens sport is divided based on biology.

There's that dog whistle again.

Sex and gender are not the same thing.

Good to see you say that, because other social conservatives don't.

Sport is divided based on sex.

No, you just want it to be.

Sport is not divided based on gender. Where's the logic in insisting that a male should be able to compete in the female category because they 'feel like a woman'?

That's not how it works and you know it. Why are you lying?

 

[buck]

But men/womens sport is divided based on biology.

You are seriously trying to debate with people that believe "Biology" is a 'dog whistle', "male" and "female" are not sex-based descriptors, and that sex doesn't even exist except for a physical act. I'm all for debate, but that is not debate. That's just nonsense.

 

[Phys251]

You are seriously trying to debate with people that believe "Biology" is a 'dog whistle', "male" and "female" are not sex-based descriptors, and that sex doesn't even exist except for a physical act. I'm all for debate, but that is not debate. That's just nonsense.

Denying the presence of a dog whistle doesn't make it go away. We've seen how the anti-trans side plays.

 

[CLAX1911]

Denying the presence of a dog whistle doesn't make it go away. We've seen how the anti-trans side plays.

Imagining the existence of a dog whistle doesn't make one exist.

If recognizing sex regardless of gender identity is anti trans than reality is bigotry.

 

[Aristaeus]

There's that dog whistle again.



Good to see you say that, because other social conservatives don't.



No, you just want it to be.



That's not how it works and you know it. Why are you lying?

How is it a dog whistle? Mens/womens sport is divided by sex, that's just a statement of fact.

I'm not a social conservative.

If the men's and women's high jump or 100m or football are not separated by sex in your opinion, then what are they separated by?

 

[Aristaeus]

Denying the presence of a dog whistle doesn't make it go away. We've seen how the anti-trans side plays.

Is encouraging transwomen to get prostate exams also a dog whistle?

Being pro trans doesn't mean you need to reject biology.

 

[H B Lowrey]

But equal rights for gay people and men participating in womens athletics isn't the same thing. You realize we have classifications in sports to help equalize competition. Boxing for instance, heavyweights don't fight welterweights, unfair. Men competing against women, unfair.

Took a while to allow negroes in as I recall.

 

[H B Lowrey]

How is it a dog whistle? Mens/womens sport is divided by sex, that's just a statement of fact.

I'm not a social conservative.

If the men's and women's high jump or 100m or football are not separated by sex in your opinion, then what are they separated by?

Tradition.

 

[buck]

Tradition.

I feel like the tradition was that females were just out of luck until title 9. Can you expand on the tradition claim?

 

[ProgressPlease]

But equal rights for gay people and men participating in womens athletics isn't the same thing. You realize we have classifications in sports to help equalize competition. Boxing for instance, heavyweights don't fight welterweights, unfair. Men competing against women, unfair.

Took a while to allow negroes in as I recall.

What does this have to do with race? Are you claiming that black people and white people differ biologically? Are you saying black people have a biological advantage in competitive sports? What parallel are you trying to draw here between race and sex.

There was never ever a reason, other than racism, to segregate sports by the pigment of one's skin. To compare that to separating sport based on sex is really taking things off the rails.

 

[ProgressPlease]

I feel like the tradition was that females were just out of luck until title 9. Can you expand on the tradition claim?

The deeper this goes the more clear it becomes that the democrats are just as invested in dismantling title 9 as the republicans have always been.

 

[gino]

Gender is a construct, so what are you on about this time?

So, let's say that a biological man cannot change his SEX then. And sports are divided by sex, not gender.

 

[BirdinHand]

The Olympics seems to have a handle on this - testosterone levels above X number and no competing in women’s sports.

Perhaps the NCAA will follow their lead.

Takes the entire “gender” conversation off the table and brings it back to quantitative numbers.

 

[rahl]

Denying the presence of a dog whistle doesn't make it go away. We've seen how the anti-trans side plays.

science is not a dog whistle. This entire issue is about biology. Nobody cares how you feel about it. Biology certainly doesn't. A biological male was born, currently is, and will forever remain a male no matter what cosmetic surgery they have, or hormones they take. That is not ever going to stop being objectively true.

 

[rahl]

The Olympics seems to have a handle on this - testosterone levels above X number and no competing in women’s sports.

Perhaps the NCAA will follow their lead.

Takes the entire “gender” conversation off the table and brings it back to quantitative numbers.

But this isn't an objective measure either because you can take all the testosterone blockers you want to. A biological male has already gone through puberty and is objectively stronger and faster than a biological female because of that.