(W:#941)If Christianity were proven true...

[Daisy]

Not just Earth.... if you believe in an afterlife, anyway. However we exist and wherever we exist, is not that existence what our consciousness perceives it to be? If we perceive ourselves as having wronged others, then will we not condemn ourselves for doing so?

I believe what the Bible says..."everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life"...

 

[Cordelier]

I believe what the Bible says..."everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life"...

There's a phrase Jesus uses several times in the Bible that rings true for me... "According to your faith be it done to you."

 

[Logicman]

Don't like adultery? Prostitution? Homosexuality?

Well, guess what? You've got the option to not in engage in any of those activities.

What you don't have the right to do is to condemn others for doing so. If Jesus didn't condemn the adulteress, why do you take it upon yourself to do so? Who made you the Holy Avenger?

You don't get to tell me what I don't have a right to do. Your sophomoric, judgmental, dilettante theology just got flushed down the commode in posts 1,747 and 1,748. And telling people what the Bible teaches about adultery and illicit gay sex sin isn't condemning, just educating and serves as a warning.

So get a new pooch to run around the arena. Yours has fleas.

 

[Logicman]

Yeah... the Book of Revelations is the fruit of a bad tree.

It's Revelation, not Revelations. There's a book that some recommend for the clueless.

 

[Cordelier]

You don't get to tell me what I don't have a right to do. Your sophomoric, judgmental, dilettante theology just got flushed down the commode in posts 1,747 and 1,748. And telling people what the Bible teaches about adultery and illicit gay sex sin isn't condemning, just educating and serves as a warning.

So get a new pooch to run around the arena. Yours has fleas.

Obviously you have a secular right to do so.... but don't kid yourself that your behavior is in any way "Christian". By my reckoning, you're nothing more than a modern-day Pharisee.

 

[Cordelier]

It's Revelation, not Revelations. There's a book that some recommend for the clueless.

View attachment 67361936

You can call it "Dave and Bill's Wild Trip" for all I care. It's the teaching of a false prophet.

 

[Logicman]

You can call it "Dave and Bill's Wild Trip" for all I care. It's the teaching of a false prophet.

Prove it. Revelation doesn't truly fulfill until the end times so you have a long road to go.

Besides, you've never really studied it. So you're just fulminating on things you know nothing about.

 

[Logicman]

Obviously you have a secular right to do so.... but don't kid yourself that your behavior is in any way "Christian". By my reckoning, you're nothing more than a modern-day Pharisee.

And your posts exhibit a profound ignorance of Christianity. Perhaps someone should have quoted you Acts 7:51 - "“You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!"

Which is what you're currently doing - resisting the Holy Spirit. Not a good plan on your part.

 

[Cordelier]

And your posts exhibit a profound ignorance of Christianity. Perhaps someone should have quoted you Acts 7:51 - "“You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!"

Which is what you're currently doing - resisting the Holy Spirit. Not a good plan on your part.

Christianity is just one corner of human spirituality. I became a Christian pretty much because I was born in the place where I was, into the family I was born into. And as impressive as my birth was to me personally, I don't think it was of global spiritual significance. If I were born in Shiraz, Iran, on the same day to another family, the odds are pretty good I would have become a Shiite Muslim.... but that wouldn't have made Islam "the one and only true religion" any more than my birth into Christianity gave it that title.

Both myself and the guy born in Shiraz on the same day as I are just a couple of blind men, each touching out part of the elephant and each coming away with our own vision of what the creature looks like.

Why? Because in the final analysis, all religions are creations of man. They are the products of the environments in which they originated and the cultural biases of the people who originated them.

The God who created the Universe, in all of it's wonder and infinity, is so far beyond our mortal capacities to even begin to grasp that to even attempt to do so is to court insanity. I suspect the author of the Book of Revelation is such a person who made the attempt.

But even if I'm wrong in that supposition.... so what? Of what possible use is it for me to know of crazy events that will happen in the future? If I haven't learned the wisdom I needed to learn from the rest of the Bible or the Koran or the Bardol Thodol, and all of the rest of humanity's spiritual inheritance, then it's not like I'm going to gain any wisdom from whatever Revelation has to tell me, is it?

 

[H B Lowrey]

If Christianity was proven true, one hell of a lot of Christians would be in dire straights because they practice anti-Christianity.

What's in a name?

 

[H B Lowrey]

And your posts exhibit a profound ignorance of Christianity. Perhaps someone should have quoted you Acts 7:51 - "“You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!"

Which is what you're currently doing - resisting the Holy Spirit. Not a good plan on your part.

Perhaps you're not a very persuasive apostle.

 

[tosca1]

Since you point it out, yes I did "butt in" on a conversation. It seemed to me Cordelier was making deliberately weak rebuttals to you.

I don't regret it, since the full nastiness of your "Christian" faith is now out in the open.


The only books of the New Testament which don't contradict another book, are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
Revelations is Paul. If you can't tell by reading it that Paul was far gone in syphilis, then go walk his path.

Goodbye already......lol......

 

[tosca1]

I'm not saying this is a "greatest faith" contest... I merely point out that the Faith of the Centurion is probably an example we should seek to follow. Jesus offered to go to the Centurion's home and heal the servant. The whole magic show was ready to go... and it probably would have been pretty impressive to see. But the Centurion declined the offer, saying that despite his worldly power, he was unworthy of having Jesus in his home. He didn't want the magic show. He didn't NEED the magic show. Why not? Because he had pure faith in Jesus himself. The servant was healed by faith alone - not a miracle. That's why the Biblical passage is entitled "The Faith of the Centurion" and not "The Miracle of the Centurion".

You're still missing the point.
The centurion wouldn't have known enough about Jesus had Jesus not been performing any miracles.
It was His "magic show" that had made Him famous.

Furthermore, discerning the false prophets from the true prophet - the real Messiah from all the fakes that had made claim,
and would lay claim on the title - involves critical thinking.
Surely you just don't believe any dick and harry who claim they are the Messiah?

My point: Having proof that proves your faith , does not mean your faith is shallow! If you have proof, you have proof!

If God gives you a miracle right now to make you believe in Him - and, if you did believe in Him because of the "proof" that He gave you - would that mean your faith is shallow? Lol - on the contrary, your faith will be strong!
Why shouldn't it be strong, if God gives you proof to make you believe? Why would He give it if it makes for a shallow faith?


John 20
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side.
Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Thomas died a martyr for his faith.


Having said that, that doesn't mean you cannot have a strong faith even without seeing those miracles for yourself.
You can't say, "faith is the antithesis of proof."
It is most definitely, not.

Pay particular attention to Matthew 8:11-12 and ask yourself this... who exactly are the subjects of the kingdom? By my reading, they are the judgmental holier-than-thou hypocrites who claim some sort of moral superiority over anyone else.

Matthew 8
10 When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith.
11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven,
12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”


The sons of the kingdom are the Jews. Many gentiles (non-Jews) will come to Christ and will be saved.

 

[Ug make hammer]

Goodbye already......lol......

What do you expect me to say? "NO U"?

Your debating style is unmistakably infantile, and since I don't believe in beating up kids, you may go now.

 

[tosca1]

Yeah... the Book of Revelations is the fruit of a bad tree. At best, it should be taken as anti-Roman propaganda... at worst, the demented ravings of a false prophet.

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them." --- Matthew 7:15-20

Look, you have been wrong with your previous opinion. Why would this be any different?

 

[Ug make hammer]

So I didnt lie and so you cant quote it. Thanks for admitting it and you really shouldnt be laughing unless you repented your sin. (Each of your lies adds up, btw)

Are all lies sins, in your religion?

(Btw, repenting sins sounds like Catholicism, is that correct?)

 

[Lursa]

Are all lies sins, in your religion?

(Btw, repenting sins sounds like Catholicism, is that correct?)

I dont know. Any that would convey malicious or selfish intent or deception in the face of facts would. However those that are meant to protect people, such as about their looks or efforts, probably not.

I'm not Catholic and dont know. Repent and 'ask for forgiveness' are basically the same. In my Protestant religion, we ask for forgiveness.

 

[Ug make hammer]

I dont know. Any that would convey malicious or selfish intent or deception in the face of facts would. However those that are meant to protect people, such as about their looks or efforts, probably not.

I'm not Catholic and dont know. Repent and 'ask for forgiveness' are basically the same. In my Protestant religion, we ask for forgiveness.

No religion here. My idea of a Bad lie is when the hearer, believing it to be true, might do something against their own interests (or to harm another person). Then there's the "white lie" about looks or do you like the present you were given. But there's a wide in-between where it really depends on circumstances. I think it's OK to lie about something you did wrong, if you think the punishment or disgrace is more than the offense deserves: it's like "pleading the fifth" but without arousing suspicion by refusing to answer. There's also 'lying to investigate' ie pretending you know what you only suspect. Lies, even well hidden 'white lies' pollute the hearer's knowledge of the world, disturbing their narrative, and when they're led by a lie to believe other things that are not true (possibly more significant) they are inherently harmful. Just look at a person who's been lied to for too long or about things very personal: they're near paranoid and find it hard to trust anyone.

All that said, I hate having to tell a lie. I find it extremely stressful, and the context gets imprinted too firmly as I know I might have to lie again in future; that distorts the narrative of memory. Those who know me well don't even ask the questions I might have to tell a 'white lie' about. "Of course your bum looks big in that, your bum would look big in a barn" tho not really. I can tell 'white lies' but I'd still rather not.

Forgiveness is only ever personal to me. Sometimes you have to accept "I will never trust you again, but you're forgiven" as the person knows it is a virtue to forgive, but is having trouble feeling forgiveness for real. Grudges tend to go both ways, so a gift or sincere gesture of counter-forgiveness might help.

 

[joko104]

What is it about Christianity that would appeal to people to join it? Truly, I'm interested in the selling points, the reasons.

Is it the threat of Hell after death? Or is there something that would truly call to people (that they cant do without being Christian)?

If you believe in the same core values and enjoy church activities, it also doubles as a huge social network in a society now where it is very difficult to meet anyone even just for friendship. I can not calculate all mostly the older women of the church have helped us in many ways including a need that someone is always present for a potential medical crisis and to help with the children. We have a lot of them. Add the social activities for the kids and us, I don't know of anything otherwise in present society that comes close. And it is good from age 1 to 110, unlike most organizations - and it will be there if wanted the rest of your life.

What else is like that? I'm not a Christian, but I have deep admiration and respect for the members of the Congregation, they are good, simple decent people. I do not participate in services or say much in a Bible study, but I'm not surfing on my phone either and enjoy much of it including the social activities. Granted, since some of what we do is not compatible so this is only a part of our social and personal life, it is a very valuable one in so many ways, and found they are highly tolerate of how we may deviate from their beliefs, values and practices in their personal lives.

As for becoming a believer? That isn't about being pragmatic, it is about being dogmatic. You believe it because that is what you believe for whatever reason you do. You have all sorts of moral and ethical values - because you believe in them. Certain things you don't do and do because you think (ie believe) you should. Sort of the same thing.