[W: #9] Prosperity Theology (work of the devil?!)

[Germinator]

ever ponder or are a believer in,... "prosperity theology" or the "health and wealth" gospel?

Christians who have a strong belief in a divine Jesus may feel reasonably safe from the distortions, caricatures, and demeaning of him that we see among entertainers and postmodern scholars. But there are more subtle traps within the Church itself that snare many because they are set by preachers and teachers whom many trust.

You do not have to go far on television or the Internet—or perhaps in your own community—to find a Christian preacher who will tell you that Jesus wants you well and wealthy. This unorthodox version of Jesus' gospel is referred to as "prosperity theology" or the "health and wealth" gospel.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/biblestudies/articles/theology/prosperitytheology.html

I bring up the subject of topic of so called "prosperity theology" because first of all it seems to be pretty popular,...

AND second of all in high school learned about the teachings of St Thomas Aquinas (who is considered to be the greatest theologian of the Roman Catholic Church)



NOTE "prosperity gospel" at its core is all about the worship of money and material goods (which jesus gave his disciples specific warnings/teachings about),... so what I consider is relevant teachings by St Thomas Aquinas who basically said, "temptation which comes from the enemy takes the form of a suggestion"

https://www.newadvent.org/summa/4041.htm

what I've also noticed is temptation/suggestion warnings by St Thomas Aquinas apply to other hot-button social/political topics like climate change (which has consequences)

https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...d-and-what-isnt.458363/page-6#post-1074578680

so are people actually being tempted by the devil into false beliefs???

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Since I am A) an atheist, B) not American, C) not a conservative, and D) not stupid, my money is safe where it needs to be, in the bank or in my pocket.

 

[MamboDervish]

so are people actually being tempted by the devil into false beliefs???

The purpose of "prosperity theology" is very clear. Make people believe that health and wealth will come their way, so they send you "seed money" to make your prayers come true. It preys upon the weakest, and poorest souls for the personal enrichment of the "pastor".



Fun stuff.

 

[Daisy]

Since I am A) an atheist, B) not American, C) not a conservative, and D) not stupid, my money is safe where it needs to be, in the bank or in my pocket.

D is questionable since this is the theology forum...

 

[Overitall]

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

D is questionable since this is the theology forum...

I was talking from a theological perspective, that I am not stupid enough to believe theology

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

It preys upon the weakest, and poorest souls for the personal enrichment of the "pastor".

Grifting, is as old as the other oldest profession, always been with us, always will be

 

[MamboDervish]

Grifting, is as old as the other oldest profession, always been with us, always will be

What good is having a flock if you don't fleece them - right?

 

[nota bene]

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[Germinator]

The purpose of "prosperity theology" is very clear. Make people believe that health and wealth will come their way, so they send you "seed money" to make your prayers come true. It preys upon the weakest, and poorest souls for the personal enrichment of the "pastor".



Fun stuff.

Grifting, is as old as the other oldest profession, always been with us, always will be

looking at the political leaning labels by your debatepolitics user IDs,... I'm 97+% certain you two are self professed non-tradition-religious-believers?!?!

since this is the theology forum... ever consider that old ways of looking at an issue such as St Thomas Aquinas (theology), "temptation which comes from the enemy takes the form of a suggestion"

https://www.newadvent.org/summa/4041.htm

is actually the precursor to modern day secular psychology

for example look at practitioners of "prosperity theology" where a lot of people interpret the bible for self enrichment (IOW ignore what is actually "said")

bottom line (pun),... seems essentially there is no difference between traditional theology "temptation which comes from the enemy takes the form of a suggestion" and what modern day psychology has to say (on the topic)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolution-the-self/201210/greed-the-ultimate-addiction

PS while on the subject of psychology vs traditional theology,... ever hear of the experimental universe where man played "god" and created a universe that was "perfect" BUT the subjects killed themselves off???

I bring up this topic because as I see things because the mouse universe experiment is a scale model what happened on easter island (where the population died off)

and perhaps what actually easter island is what is going to happen to people on the earth, if the parable of the vineyard owner,... which is a theological way to view the topic of “climate change,...” IS IGNORED


...a landowner set forth a vineyard with great care and lavish attention

he then entrusted it to tenant farmers

at harvest time, he sought his share of the produce

yet instead of giving the owner what was due him, the tenant farmers refused, ridiculing, beating, and even killing the servants sent to collect his share

they end by killing the owner’s own son

when jesus asks his audience what they thought the owner would do in response, they replied that he would put the men to a wretched death and lease his vineyard to other tenants who would give him the produce at the proper time

obviously, they did not realize that in the parable the landlord was actually describing them,... and that such a judgment would be upon them unless they repented


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+21:33-46&version=NCB

 

[The Baron]

ever ponder or are a believer in,... "prosperity theology" or the "health and wealth" gospel?



I bring up the subject of topic of so called "prosperity theology" because first of all it seems to be pretty popular,...

AND second of all in high school learned about the teachings of St Thomas Aquinas (who is considered to be the greatest theologian of the Roman Catholic Church)



NOTE "prosperity gospel" at its core is all about the worship of money and material goods (which jesus gave his disciples specific warnings/teachings about),... so what I consider is relevant teachings by St Thomas Aquinas who basically said, "temptation which comes from the enemy takes the form of a suggestion"

https://www.newadvent.org/summa/4041.htm

what I've also noticed is temptation/suggestion warnings by St Thomas Aquinas apply to other hot-button social/political topics like climate change (which has consequences)

https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...d-and-what-isnt.458363/page-6#post-1074578680

so are people actually being tempted by the devil into false beliefs???

The prosperity gospel is un-biblical and a con. My wife and I left our last church because the pastor was getting his theology from TBN.

I was disappointed to see Paula White in the corner of Trump. I think Trump--like far too many Christians--believe that these preachers must have some merit to be as successful as they are. But all these preachers are just a bunch of hell-bound heathens.

 

[HangLow]

 

[The Baron]

It's not the church's job to provide students with a free education...
...nor is it anybody's else's job, either.

 

[Germinator]

The prosperity gospel is un-biblical and a con. My wife and I left our last church because the pastor was getting his theology from TBN.

I was disappointed to see Paula White in the corner of Trump. I think Trump--like far too many Christians--believe that these preachers must have some merit to be as successful as they are. But all these preachers are just a bunch of hell-bound heathens.

huh,... TBN

had to google "TBN" to find out what that was,...

http://www7.tbn.org/video-tags/theology

sigh,... browsing the titles of the videos explains why there is "brainwashing" against what science has uncovered IMHO

https://watch.tbn.org/videos/hd-jsig0132

https://watch.tbn.org/videos/hd-drc2c0778

https://watch.tbn.org/videos/hd-drc2c0775

https://watch.tbn.org/videos/hd-prmm211404

 

[justabubba]

What good is having a flock if you don't fleece them - right?

isn't that a direct quote of Jesus as found in the new testament?

 

[Frogwall]

so are people actually being tempted by the devil into false beliefs???

Obviously, but what does that have to do with the topic?

There's nothing wrong with a person wanting to be wealthy if it's for the right reasons nor is there anything wrong wanting your friend or aquintance to be wealthy if it's for the right reasons.

 

[Germinator]

What good is having a flock if you don't fleece them - right?

isn't that a direct quote of Jesus as found in the new testament?

seems it's gods will that preachers need private business jets to get the message out



and what worked before (for Jesus) just isn't enuf for the modern world

Obviously, but what does that have to do with the topic?

There's nothing wrong with a person wanting to be wealthy if it's for the right reasons nor is there anything wrong wanting your friend or aquintance to be wealthy if it's for the right reasons.

so is preaching the right reason (i.e. do as I say, not as I do)???

 

[The Baron]

seems it's gods will that preachers need private business jets to get the message out



and what worked before (for Jesus) just isn't enuf for the modern world

so is preaching the right reason (i.e. do as I say, not as I do)???

These preachers are hell-bound heretics. Sadly con men (and women) can be found anywhere.

 

[The Baron]

The purpose of "prosperity theology" is very clear. Make people believe that health and wealth will come their way, so they send you "seed money" to make your prayers come true. It preys upon the weakest, and poorest souls for the personal enrichment of the "pastor".



Fun stuff.

True.

 

[Tinkerpeaches]

The Devil is always tempting people so why wouldn’t he use this also. The Bible is pretty clear that a person’s wealth is irrelevant. Some will have it and some won’t.

 

[Germinator]

These preachers are hell-bound heretics. Sadly con men (and women) can be found anywhere.

as they say,... god works in mysterious ways

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[Grasshopper121212]

Since I am A) an atheist, B) not American, C) not a conservative, and D) not stupid, my money is safe where it needs to be, in the bank or in my pocket.

In the bank or pocket getting eaten up by inflation, taxes and being invested by the banks. Back in the 1870's in America, the Wells Fargo Bank and homes were made out of the same materials, wood (logs). Now what are banks made out of? Steal, concrete, titanium vaults, marble floors and walls. What are our homes made out of? Wood, stucko, chicken wire. What happened? Banks got us to part with our money for the purpose of "safety" and turned around and invested it in the American and global economies. That's what happened. Insurance companies have done the same thing and continue to with their cash value life insurance policies. Talk about prosperity theology. And, the poorer continue to get poorer. Ralph Nader once said back in the 60's, "The life insurance industry is a smug sacred cow feeding the public a steady line of sacred bull." And, the pompous liberals of the world continue to do the same thing to those who really understood Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[Grasshopper121212]

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

I don't get this complaint at all. You are correct. Jesus never preached against people being successful and getting back to being self-sufficient. He simply taught to help those in need if you are self-sufficient or wealthy. The fact is, church leaders who are financially successful simply applied the teachings of Christ of hard work. He taught the parable about the lord of the vineyard that paid people different amounts and told them to make them grow. Invest them wisely. He then condemned the one who hid his talent (money) and didn't make it grow.

 

[Overitall]

I don't get this complaint at all. You are correct. Jesus never preached against people being successful and getting back to being self-sufficient. He simply taught to help those in need if you are self-sufficient or wealthy. The fact is, church leaders who are financially successful simply applied the teachings of Christ of hard work. He taught the parable about the lord of the vineyard that paid people different amounts and told them to make them grow. Invest them wisely. He then condemned the one who hid his talent (money) and didn't make it grow.

It's easy to develop a theology of ministers giving up riches to care for the poor. Find a few isolated verses that seem to support that position and viola. You'll have a case to condemn those who are prospering. The problem with that approach is you have to ignore those scriptures that state men of God were prosperous. One prominent figure would be Solomon. Because he only asked God for wisdom to help his people God gave him that plus made him one of the richest men in the world at the time.

 

[Grasshopper121212]

It's easy to develop a theology of ministers giving up riches to care for the poor. Find a few isolated verses that seem to support that position and viola. You'll have a case to condemn those who are prospering. The problem with that approach is you have to ignore those scriptures that state men of God were prosperous. One prominent figure would be Solomon. Because he only asked God for wisdom to help his people God gave him that plus made him one of the richest men in the world at the time.

There are those who take on a vow of poverty and live their lives helping others. But, it's not like they are starving or struggling. They give up things like marriage, children and family. There's nothing in the Bible that says that's how to be a minister. In fact, it says that bishops and others just have to have one wife and not to receive "filthy money." So, what is filthy lucre or money? Building a large church? Nope.