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[W:816] A Lesson from Atlas Shrugged

Robertinfremont

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This is part 1 but there are more parts to follow.

I have never caught hell from Republicans on the values found in Atlas Shrugged but from Democrats, I catch holy hell. They prove how they think by rejecting the lessons of Atlas Shrugged. This comes close to discussing Antitrust laws were Government decides for business what business may do.

Watch part 1.

 

tacomancer

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If one things Ayn Rand has any values to teach, they are utterly self-centered people looking to justify that self-centeredness in any way they can.

The only thing Rand can teach is how trauma can break a person and completely screw them up for life.
 

Thom Paine

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If one things Ayn Rand has any values to teach, they are utterly self-centered people looking to justify that self-centeredness in any way they can.

The only thing Rand can teach is how trauma can break a person and completely screw them up for life.

did you read that book? or others by Rand?
 

Guyzilla

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did you read that book? or others by Rand?

Tried, and tried. Cannot finish or even get into her stilted, horrible dirges. I wanted to understand conservatives. She is pathetic. Unhappy and died alone.

But she is useful, so they have never let her die.

Watched the movie where Galt goes Galt. Really ridiculous premise.

I hope the greedy rich move away. Pay their taxes on the way out. We will figure out how to replace them. Give others opportunities.
 
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Jason Warfield

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Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead were required reading for me in high school and later, in college. In all honesty, Rand' style is self-important and likes to repeatedly slap the reader in the face with what appears to be libertarian, fantasy ideals.

But when you look at her life, he non-fiction and her followers...you begin to wonder if she was her generation's Anne Coulter...a woman who is willing to make a buck off of others by catering to their views on life. How Rand lived her life was not in line with what she espoused to be her beliefs.

Fast forward to just a couple months ago: the Ayn Rand Foundation, a 33-person organization that creates think tanks and supports lobbyists to cut all social/welfare programs and to cut government interference in life in all manners...like giving additional unemployment benefits and the PPP...actually applied for and got, one million dollars from the very social program that Rand would have been against, a program that the organization should have been fighting against, based on their philosophy and previous actions.

In short, Ayn Rand and her followers are full of $h!t.
 

post

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Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead were required reading for me in high school and later, in college. In all honesty, Rand' style is self-important and likes to repeatedly slap the reader in the face with what appears to be libertarian, fantasy ideals.

But when you look at her life, he non-fiction and her followers...you begin to wonder if she was her generation's Anne Coulter...a woman who is willing to make a buck off of others by catering to their views on life. How Rand lived her life was not in line with what she espoused to be her beliefs.

Fast forward to just a couple months ago: the Ayn Rand Foundation, a 33-person organization that creates think tanks and supports lobbyists to cut all social/welfare programs and to cut government interference in life in all manners...like giving additional unemployment benefits and the PPP...actually applied for and got, one million dollars from the very social program that Rand would have been against, a program that the organization should have been fighting against, based on their philosophy and previous actions.

In short, Ayn Rand and her followers are full of $h!t.

Opinion | The peril of valuing celebrity over history - The New York Times
....
A minimal acquaintance with history, including dissections of American culture already performed by both Sinclairs, would undermine our national complacency. Upton Sinclair, for example, showed the rapaciousness of capitalism, the vampire-like appetite with which it feeds on the blood of human beings. Even with "reforms" ("The Jungle" led to the establishment of the Food and Drug Administration), the profit-worshipping economy to this day eludes controls that would protect majorities of citizens in this country and across the world. Sinclair Lewis, for his part, showed how the simultaneously banalizing methods of capitalist enterprise (false advertising, consumerism, pieties of affluence, amoral bureaucracy) are exactly what that enterprise created to keep from being criticized........

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1295237072496873472

BillionaireCovidWindfall.jpg

The Fed - Distribution: Distribution of Household Wealth in the U.S. since 1989

FedWealth3rdQtr1989.jpg

FedWealthDistInTrillions4QTR2019.jpg
 
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tacomancer

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did you read that book? or others by Rand?

I read Atlas Shrugged, it was trash and I had to keep putting it down due to its combination of utterly boring and lack of realism.

I am actually proud I was able to force myself through it.
 
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Dacke

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This is part 1 but there are more parts to follow.

I have never caught hell from Republicans on the values found in Atlas Shrugged but from Democrats, I catch holy hell. They prove how they think by rejecting the lessons of Atlas Shrugged. This comes close to discussing Antitrust laws were Government decides for business what business may do.

Watch part 1.


Republicans would not know the values of Objectivism if they were shoved up their butts. They are in some cases even worse than Democrats in this regard.
 

Dacke

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Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead were required reading for me in high school and later, in college. In all honesty, Rand' style is self-important and likes to repeatedly slap the reader in the face with what appears to be libertarian, fantasy ideals.
Ayn Rand's fiction go under the label of romantic fiction and is thus indeed to be seen for what it is which is the advocacy of certain ideals. However, Ayn Rand never identified as Libertarian and the actual label is Objectivist.

But when you look at her life, he non-fiction and her followers...you begin to wonder if she was her generation's Anne Coulter...a woman who is willing to make a buck off of others by catering to their views on life. How Rand lived her life was not in line with what she espoused to be her beliefs.
Comparing Ayn Rand to the useless giraffe that is Ann Coulter is a huge insult. Ayn Rand did put her principles into practice and her ideas had a far greater impact than anything Ann Coulter ever wrote will ever have. In 20 years, no one will remember Coulter's name, but Ayn Rand's name will echo in eternity.

Fast forward to just a couple months ago: the Ayn Rand Foundation, a 33-person organization that creates think tanks and supports lobbyists to cut all social/welfare programs and to cut government interference in life in all manners...like giving additional unemployment benefits and the PPP...actually applied for and got, one million dollars from the very social program that Rand would have been against, a program that the organization should have been fighting against, based on their philosophy and previous actions.
This criticism is hardly original or unexpected. ARI were early in declaring that they would apply for and accept the support-package and I believe Ayn Rand herself wrote an essay about accepting welfare-checks with the argument that you are just taking back the money that you paid in.

In short, Ayn Rand and her followers are full of $h!t.
Not her biggest fan and certainly not an Objectvist, but only someone who does not understand her philosophy can call it "full of ****"
 

tacomancer

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but only someone who does not understand her philosophy can call it "full of ****"

You got this precisely backwards. The Objectivist philosophy is just an attempt to reclassify selfishness as a virtue because under certain circumstances it can sometimes be useful if you ignore much of human nature and psychology.

Its the philosophy of 12 year olds who never grew up and learned to be a part of society.
 

Dacke

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You got this precisely backwards. The Objectivist philosophy is just an attempt to reclassify selfishness as a virtue because under certain circumstances it can sometimes be useful if you ignore much of human nature and psychology.

Its the philosophy of 12 year olds who never grew up and learned to be a part of society.
Again, you are just parroting the half-arsed idiots who have not understood anything about the philosophy and who are trying to cover up their own incapability of grasping it by being "funny" and projecting their insecurities onto Rand.

You should not speak of things you do not know anything about.
 

tacomancer

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Again, you are just parroting the half-arsed idiots who have not understood anything about the philosophy and who are trying to cover up their own incapability of grasping it by being "funny" and projecting their insecurities onto Rand.

You should not speak of things you do not know anything about.

Do you have a real retort or just this pretending that you have some special knowledge and pretending that I am incapable of insight?
 

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I read Atlas Shrugged, it was trash and I had to keep putting it down due to its combination of utterly boring and lack of realism.

I am actually proud I was able to force myself through it.

It is one of the greatest books ever written.
 

Dacke

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Do you have a real retort or just this pretending that you have some special knowledge and pretending that I am incapable of insight?
Look who is talking. :lamo

I would love to engage in a serious conversation about Objectivism, but not with a person who uses overused slurs like "lol 12 year old's philosophy", "lolz Ayn Rand died alone and took welfare" and "muh, muh slefishness does not work in society!"

You cannot demand your opponent to offer you a "real retort" when all you offer is ad hominems and ungrounded jibberish.
 

tacomancer

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Look who is talking. :lamo

I would love to engage in a serious conversation about Objectivism, but not with a person who uses overused slurs like "lol 12 year old's philosophy", "lolz Ayn Rand died alone and took welfare" and "muh, muh slefishness does not work in society!"

You cannot demand your opponent to offer you a "real retort" when all you offer is ad hominems and ungrounded jibberish.

Yes, I am a whole and mature adult that is talking.

However, the truth does remain, despite you trying to run away from a discussion, most people grow out of this kind of point of view in their early teens and some unfortunately do not.

We can discuss the philosophy behind it once the initial premise that I am pointing out is recognized.
 

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I read Atlas Shrugged, it was trash and I had to keep putting it down due to its combination of utterly boring and lack of realism.

I am actually proud I was able to force myself through it.


I’m not sure whether to compliment you on your perseverance or wonder why you wasted so much time!

I only made it about 300 pages before I couldn’t take it anymore.

In a Rynd novel, one character asks a stranger the time of day, and 35 pages later, after we’ve been lectured about the deep meaning of the question, and the deep background of the characters, you finally know what time it is!!!!!

If Ernest Hemingway has written “Atlas Shruged”, it would have been ten pages long!
 

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Yes, I am a whole and mature adult that is talking. I recognize that you may have trouble understanding that and what an adult looks like.

So now you are trying to run away. got it.

However, the truth does remain, most people grow out of this kind of point of view in their early teens and some unfortunately do not.

We can discuss the philosophy behind it once the initial premise that I am pointing out is recognized.
So, where is your argument?
 

tacomancer

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So, where is your argument?

That Objectivism ignores that man is by nature primarily a social creature and only looks at one specific aspect of that man in a contorted context to try to bring about a philosophy. It basically ignores almost all of the social sciences in favor of fantasy.
 

tacomancer

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I’m not sure whether to compliment you on your perseverance or wonder why you wasted so much time!

I only made it about 300 pages before I couldn’t take it anymore.

In a Rynd novel, one character asks a stranger the time of day, and 35 pages later, after we’ve been lectured about the deep meaning of the question, and the deep background of the characters, you finally know what time it is!!!!!

If Ernest Hemingway has written “Atlas Shruged”, it would have been ten pages long!

I got a few minutes before my morning meetings. I know these people tend not to have the emotional capacity to understand the criticisms.
 

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You got this precisely backwards. The Objectivist philosophy is just an attempt to reclassify selfishness as a virtue because under certain circumstances it can sometimes be useful if you ignore much of human nature and psychology.

Its the philosophy of 12 year olds who never grew up and learned to be a part of society.

Spoken like a true totalitarian leftist, the only way to make society is to beat humans into submission to whatever whims the leadership of the moment have.
 

TomFitz

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I got a few minutes before my morning meetings. I know these people tend not to have the emotional capacity to understand the criticisms.

I haven’t studied various philosophies in some time, so I have no comment about that.

But Rynd does celebrate selfishness as a virtue.


Just enough time to read the Cliff Notes!
 
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Dacke

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That Objectivism ignores that man is by nature primarily a social creature and only looks at one specific aspect of that man in a contorted context to try to bring about a philosophy. It basically ignored almost all of the social sciences in favor of fantasy.
What do you mean by "social being" and how does Objectivism deny that man is social?

When you go to the store to buy a Coke, do you do it to "serve humanity" or do you do it to satisfy your own cravings? When the store-owner sells it to you, does he do it for his own profit or to "serve humanity"?

True Egoism in its original Greek meaning which is the one Rand uses is a great value and sadly somehing that we have lost and no longer advocate.
 

tacomancer

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Spoken like a true totalitarian leftist, the only way to make society is to beat humans into submission to whatever whims the leadership of the moment have.

ahh yes, the old attempt to frame the argument in binary terms. "one is either for Rand or a totalitarian/authoritarian/fascist/etc" which speaks to my "its a bunch of 12 year olds" argument

Thank you for being an example of what I am talking about.
 
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