[W:73] Why would god create an unstable planet?

[Grasshopper121212]

Now we know why religious conservatives vote against helping the poor and relieving their suffering, it is against god's plan.

How you get this from what was written is beyond any logical or reasonable answer. It might be known to you that it's the religious conservatives that give to the poor and the needy far more than Democrat atheists. And, I would argue your reason to give is most likely to save money on taxes. I gave to help the poor and the needy last year $10,000 and didn't get one tax break from it. I bet you can't say the same thing. As Jesus said, help the poor and the needy. But, not pathetic leftist liberals who are stingy with their money as we know most of the billionaires in the U.S. are Democrats and liberal.

 

[Grasshopper121212]

View attachment 67344883

This is just a complete lack of understanding of God's Plan of Salvation and Happiness. Show us atheists where it says in the Bible that's omnipotence is supposed to keep evil or bad things from happening? I'll give you a hint, there isn't anything in the Bible that says this. Where in the Bible does it say that the earth was made perfect without blemish and life? It doesn't. Where does it say that mankind will never have challenges of life and death, good or evil, virtue or vice, pleasure or pain? It doesn't. And, if you don't believe there is God, then why tell us how God thinks, should thinks, what he is and what he should be doing.

 

[Argent]

This is just a complete lack of understanding of God's Plan of Salvation and Happiness. Show us atheists where it says in the Bible that's omnipotence is supposed to keep evil or bad things from happening? I'll give you a hint, there isn't anything in the Bible that says this. Where in the Bible does it say that the earth was made perfect without blemish and life? It doesn't. Where does it say that mankind will never have challenges of life and death, good or evil, virtue or vice, pleasure or pain? It doesn't. And, if you don't believe there is God, then why tell us how God thinks, should thinks, what he is and what he should be doing.

What Are the Most Important Things to Understand about the Nature of God?

Everything about the Christian faith rests on this identity and nature. Not just God’s loving, nurturing character, but also the equally important aspects of total righteousness and inability to excuse sin. In this, we can live a life of great faith, trust, humility, and surrender.

www.christianity.com

4. The Nature of God | Bible.org

The Absolute God In writing this chapter, I stand on the shoulders of giants indeed. I gratefully acknowledge the tremendous help and influence that the writings of A. W. Pink, J. I. Packer, and Stephen Charnock have been over the years in helping me come to know and understand the Absolute God.

bible.org

 

[Grasshopper121212]

What Are the Most Important Things to Understand about the Nature of God?

Everything about the Christian faith rests on this identity and nature. Not just God’s loving, nurturing character, but also the equally important aspects of total righteousness and inability to excuse sin. In this, we can live a life of great faith, trust, humility, and surrender.

www.christianity.com

4. The Nature of God | Bible.org

The Absolute God In writing this chapter, I stand on the shoulders of giants indeed. I gratefully acknowledge the tremendous help and influence that the writings of A. W. Pink, J. I. Packer, and Stephen Charnock have been over the years in helping me come to know and understand the Absolute God.

bible.org

Again, you didn't answer any questions. Show us where God is supposed to have made a perfect world that doesn't have earth quakes, tornados, hurricanes, volcanos and so on. Show us that God said we never have to worry about bad things happening to us and that there will never be anybody poor. Please, show me...

 

[craig]

God created the universe.
God created people.
God put them on Earth.

Earth is poorly constructed.
It has earthquakes, floods, lightning, etc.

Millions of decent people have certainly died in such events.
Millions of children have become orphaned in such events.

Why would god choose to construct the planet poorly?

Because he is a jealous god and wants no rivals.
I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me

 

[Argent]

Show us where God is supposed to have made a perfect world that doesn't have earth quakes, tornados, hurricanes, volcanos and so on. Show us that God said we never have to worry about bad things happening to us and that there will never be anybody poor. Please, show me...

The point is that he didn't make a perfect world when he could have. Christians believe god is omniscient -- knows the past present future -- so the logical conclusion is that this all knowing all powerful entity created a world where his creations would know strife. You took exception to the Epicurus meme I posted. It's still relevant to an omniscient omnipresent deity.

The first article I posted and the one included here contains biblical reference to this power.

The Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence of God - The Gospel Coalition

The three “omni” attributes of God characterize him as all-powerful, all-knowing, and everywhere present. Each of these involves the other two.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[Daisy]

The point is that he didn't make a perfect world when he could have.

The point is...He did...when you buy a spanking new car right outta the show room, runs perfect and you take it out and run it to death, never change the oil, maybe use the wrong octane of gas in it, do you blame the manufacturer when you are the one who abuses it by breaking the warranty? Of course not...it was your fault 100% for not following the rules...

 

[Argent]

Of course not...it was your fault 100% for not following the rules...

Omniscient being creates worshipers already knowing they either won't all follow the rules or follow all the rules all of the time and sets out grand punishment for those who err. If god could create perfection, why didn't he? Why did this deity need creatures to worship it?

Believers are masters at rationalizing and I'm sure you are no different and will quote scripture to fortify your rationalizations. I'm curious how you would answer Epicurus's questions without using biblical reference.

 

[Daisy]

Omniscient being creates worshipers already knowing they either won't all follow the rules

Wrong...that is not allowing for the free will that man was created with...

 

[Argent]

Wrong...that is not allowing for the free will that man was created with...

Wrong...there is no free will when your existence and all it entails is predetermined by an omniscient deity.

 

[Daisy]

Wrong...there is no free will when your existence and all it entails is predetermined by an omniscient deity.

It's not...

What Does the Bible Say About Free Will? Is God in Control of Your Destiny?​

The Bible’s answer​

God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do. Consider what the Bible teaches.

• God created humans in his image. (Genesis 1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will.
• To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”—Isaiah 48:18.
• Our success or failure is not determined by fate. If we want to succeed at an endeavor, we must work hard. “All that your hand finds to do,” says the Bible, “do with your very power.”(Ecclesiastes 9:10) It also says: “The plans of the diligent one surely make for advantage.”—Proverbs 21:5.

Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our “whole heart”—because we want to.—Matthew 22:37.

Doesn’t God control all things?​

The Bible does teach that God is Almighty, that his power is not limited by anyone other than himself. (Job 37:23; Isaiah 40:26) However, he does not use his power to control everything. For example, the Bible says that God was “exercising self-control” toward ancient Babylon, an enemy of his people. (Isaiah 42:14) Similarly, for now, he chooses to tolerate those who misuse their free will to harm others. But God will not do so indefinitely—Psalm 37:10, 11.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502013208?q=predetermine&p=sen

 

[Argent]

It's not...

Remember what I said earlier about believers being masters of rationalization? Nothing you've provided here proves Epicurus's statement wrong.

 

[Daisy]

Remember what I said earlier about believers being masters of rationalization? Nothing you've provided here proves Epicurus's statement wrong.

Nothing you've provided here proves God's Word wrong...

 

[Argent]

Nothing you've provided here proves God's Word wrong...

Nor have you provided anything to prove its word correct or answered Epicurus's questions which is how I got involved in this conversation in the first place after being tagged by Grasshopper121212.

 

[Daisy]

Nor have you provided anything to prove its word correct or answered Epicurus's questions which is how I got involved in this conversation in the first place after being tagged by Grasshopper121212.

Sure I have, you merely refuse to accept my answers...I'll leave you with one last clue...Jehovah sees the big picture...

 

[Argent]

Jehovah sees the big picture...

Right, the end of the story was written the same time as the beginning.

 

[Deuce]

This is just a complete lack of understanding of God's Plan of Salvation and Happiness. Show us atheists where it says in the Bible that's omnipotence is supposed to keep evil or bad things from happening? I'll give you a hint, there isn't anything in the Bible that says this. Where in the Bible does it say that the earth was made perfect without blemish and life? It doesn't. Where does it say that mankind will never have challenges of life and death, good or evil, virtue or vice, pleasure or pain? It doesn't. And, if you don't believe there is God, then why tell us how God thinks, should thinks, what he is and what he should be doing.

We're intellectually capable of discussing religion based on its own premise, and we're also intellectually capable of asking questions regarding the ramifications of these premises. You're absolutely correct, the books never said there will be no earthquakes or tornadoes. That doesn't explain why they exist, though. What purpose did the tornado in Kentucky serve? Why did your God create it? To kill people? It was posted earlier in the thread, but it's that classic problem. If God is so good, why didn't He stop such tragedy?

We can look the other way regarding free will. If you want free will to exist, then the free will to commit acts of evil has to also exist. So, we'll wave off all the destruction caused by humans. War, murder, etc. We do great evil onto ourselves, there's definitely no question about that. But what about the rest of it? Smallpox is one illness among countless thousands, and it killed more people than any war in human history, by a very large margin. The bubonic plague wiped out about a third of Europe. Why did these diseases exist in the first place?

It's a perfectly valid question, isn't it? Why would God allow this? If God is able to stop it, but chose not to, I judge that decision to be evil. If God is not able to stop it, then he's not omnipotent. Either way calls into question fundamental aspects of the bible, and that's why I do not believe your God exists as written in those books. They simply do not match observation.

 

[Deuce]

Nothing you've provided here proves God's Word wrong...

"God's word" is too vague to really address, but I can absolutely disprove some human beings' interpretations of God's word. The people who think the Earth is roughly 6000 years old, for example. That is overwhelmingly shown to be false.

 

[lwf]

God created the universe.
God created people.
God put them on Earth.

Earth is poorly constructed.
It has earthquakes, floods, lightning, etc.

Millions of decent people have certainly died in such events.
Millions of children have become orphaned in such events.

Why would god choose to construct the planet poorly?

Perhaps the planet is exactly how he wants it. If you could lock your children in a padded room for their entire lives with food, water, and exercise, such that they lived a long healthy life with no chance of pain or suffering, would you do so?

 

[Grasshopper121212]

The point is that he didn't make a perfect world when he could have. Christians believe god is omniscient -- knows the past present future -- so the logical conclusion is that this all knowing all powerful entity created a world where his creations would know strife. You took exception to the Epicurus meme I posted. It's still relevant to an omniscient omnipresent deity.

The first article I posted and the one included here contains biblical reference to this power.

The Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence of God - The Gospel Coalition

The three “omni” attributes of God characterize him as all-powerful, all-knowing, and everywhere present. Each of these involves the other two.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Again, who says God must make a perfect world that has no blemishes? Actually, he did. Before the fall of Adam and Eve, the earth had no death in it. It was after their fall that he cursed the ground for Adam's sake and made Eve go through pain and sorrow during delivery of babies. Which, by the way, was always God's perfect Plan of Salvation. For us to know strife and choose good or evil. The key is "choose." We must do so through free moral agency. In order for this to happen, there has to be opposites. Good - evil, pleasure - pain, calm - storm and so on... This doesn't make God less omniscient. It gives us the opportunity that we can develop faith to know God and recognized what is good and what is evil. Christians recognize the Light of Christ to know good or evil. The influence of the Holy Ghost can help us recognize that Light of Christ or truth. So, God gave us tools to use in order for us to choose the right and truth so that we can again, with the Atonement of Christ, return back to Heavenly Father and his Son, Jesus Christ.

So, for the purpose of this world, the world was made perfect. As far as it's future, God will again return the earth to terrestrial glory for the Millennium where there will be no earth quakes and death for a thousand years. Then, it will be changed to telestial glory as it is right now for a season to allow Satan out of his confinement through the Millennium and test those who were born during the Millennium. Then, the battle of Gog and Magog will happen with Christ the victor and Satan and his evil followers will be bound for all eternity in Perdition away from the glories of Heaven. The earth will become Celestialized for the home of those Celestial beings of Glory.

 

[craig]

God created the universe.
God created people.
God put them on Earth.

Earth is poorly constructed.
It has earthquakes, floods, lightning, etc.

Millions of decent people have certainly died in such events.
Millions of children have become orphaned in such events.

Why would god choose to construct the planet poorly?

This has been a problem since man created god. God is all powerful. God created everything. God is only good. People are suffering. Why?

 

[Daisy]

People are suffering. Why?

One word...disobedience...

 

[craig]

One word...disobedience...

The answer makes no sense unless you answer the entire question.

This has been a problem since man created god. God is all powerful. God created everything. God is only good. People are suffering. Why?

 

[Daisy]

The answer makes no sense unless you include the entire question.

Yes, God is all powerful but He also created man with free will...man chose to disobey God so he has to suffer the consequences...the law of reaping what you sow goes into effect...

 

[craig]

Yes, God is all powerful but He also created man with free will...man chose to disobey God so he has to suffer the consequences...the law of reaping what you sow goes into effect...

Are you a good man and do you allow another to suffer if you can help them. If god is good he would do the same otherwise he is not good.