[W:682] Israel is committing the crime of apartheid, rights group says

[Tigerace117]

It's your feelings that seem to be playing a part here.
There were atrocities on both sides in that war 73 years ago and I don't see you ever comparing Arabs with Nazis.
The eagerness to compare Jews, the victims of Nazism, with Nazis, is coming from one and only one agenda.

No amount of “both sides” wailing excuses the atrocity at Deir Yassin. Everyone involved should have been imprisoned or executed for their role in the attack.

Imagine if that had been the defense at Nuremberg. “The Soviets did bad stuff too! You can’t blame us!”

The eagerness to downplay horrific atrocities like Deir Yassin is very telling.

 

[Apocalypse]

No amount of “both sides” wailing excuses the atrocity at Deir Yassin. Everyone involved should have been imprisoned or executed for their role in the attack.

Imagine if that had been the defense at Nuremberg. “The Soviets did bad stuff too! You can’t blame us!”

The eagerness to downplay horrific atrocities like Deir Yassin is very telling.

Yeah I'm not continuing this discussion with you.
You want to compare Jews with Nazis, do so, but you're not hiding anything and it's obvious why this subject is such an obsession for you.

 

[Tigerace117]

Yeah I'm not continuing this discussion with you.
You want to compare Jews with Nazis, do so, but you're not hiding anything and it's obvious why this subject is such an obsession for you.

I’m certainly not hiding my contempt for the murderous thugs who slaughtered the people of Deir Yassin. That hurting your feelings is completely irrelevant on every level

 

[NO1]

Yet more comparisons of Jews and Nazis.
Well done, it's getting clearer and clearer what you're about.

These people always do it, comparing Jews to Nazis is the first rule in their playbook in order to serve their

It was very sad and tragic, it was committed by Irgun and Lehi in the war in 48' and it was condemed by Haganah. Also when Israel established it dismantled them. He use it in order to compare Jews to Nazis and promote his hateful propaganda.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Not my circus. Not my monkeys.

I wish the U.S. would "cancel" Israel and just let them fend for themselves. How one little piss-ant country can cause so much world disruption is beyond me.

Let them fight it out on their own. Last man standing turn out the light.

Except that it isn't a fair fight since the US gives one side high tech arms systems for free and prevents the other side from getting any.

 

[NO1]

It's your feelings that seem to be playing a part here.
There were atrocities on both sides in that war 73 years ago and I don't see you ever comparing Arabs with Nazis.
The eagerness to compare Jews, the victims of Nazism, with Nazis, is coming from one and only one agenda.

Indeed.
At least he exposed himself...

 

[Ikari]

Moderator's Warning:

I'm going to be nice here, because there have been several violations of ML in this thread. So here are the rules: ME Forum Martial Law Concordance Middle East Forum Martial Law Concordance Introduction In addition to the global Forum Rules, the Debate Politics Moderator Team manages the Middle East Forum under a regimen known as Martial Law (ML). This is a zero-tolerance ruleset coupled with enhanced consequences. It is strongly... debatepolitics.com Y'll got it now? Good, because we're done with the rule violations in this thread. Everyone posting in this thread can now consider themselves duly warned.

 

[Phys251]

No, the Palestinians were targeting civilians with unpredictable rockets ..wake up.

You did not answer my question.

 

[Mika-El]

Israel literally gave awards to members of the group which carried out atrocities such as Deir Yassin. The same group, by the way, which actively shot at British troops while the British were fighting the Nazis. That’s not even getting into things like the terrorist attack on the King David Hotel. The Palestinians fled, in large part, because they figured there would be additional attacks like Deir Yassin.

Once again, there’s an reason Israel and apartheid South Africa were so close.

And once again, your feelings being hurt by the reality doesn’t change it.

Your continuing reference to my or anyone else's feelings is inappropriate. Please discuss the issues.

I will now respond to your comments about thd Lehi service ribbon.

There were at its peak 230 in Lehi. They did not represent anyone in their beliefs but themselves. They admired Mussolini and the Phelangistes in Lebanon. They were in fact admires of Stalin was well. They never reflected the Zionist movement and were rejected by the Zionist movement as being terrorist. They were rejected by the Palmach who are now the IDF.

I argue now that the reason you focus on them and the massacre they committed is because you engage in the tactic to select Lehti's service ribbon as an award for terrorism and so the entire IDF are terrorists to then justify what Hamas does.

Lehi were terrorists. Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were as members of them terrorists. Later when both were elected PM's there terrorist histories were most certainly criticized and questioned and the state of Israel denounced what Lehi did and in fact their oath of office had to denounce terrorism as a tool of the state.

The service ribbon recognizes the few members of it still alive as it does the Stern gang as historic reference to their assisting Jews escape to Israel not for committing crimes of terrorism. In fact the Palmach which then turned into the IDF denounced them. Many Israelis felt they should not have been given a service ribbon because it would enable people like you to slur all IDF as terrorists as I arguevyou do now in this thread.

I would argue the Lehi service ribbon has nothing to do with the current issue of this thread and deflects from a question asked of you and others on this thread criticizing the IDF and that is how can Palestinians and Israelis both be protected from Hamas.

 

[Mika-El]

Except that it isn't a fair fight since the US gives one side high tech arms systems for free and prevents the other side from getting any.

Of course the US does not arm terrorists like Hamas. They do have military agreements with Arab League nations.

What is unfair about not arming terrorists?

 

[Mika-El]

These people have been fighting over the same few acres of real estate for literally thousands of years. It's not going to stop until one side or the other or both are wiped out. I say we step back and let them fight and be done with it. The next ice age can't come soon enough and cover the whole area with a mile-thick sheet of ice so they all stfu already.

I say with respect, your comment shows equal contempt for both sides. I would cargue it is based on an assumption you are morally superior to the conflicted parties.

Would you agree if I said let the US kill itself over its internal conflicts?

 

[Mika-El]

You're treating this as an all or nothing proposition, which is what a liar would do.

No he was not to be fair. You used the word starvation. Hamas is at war with Israel and bringing in weapons along with the food so Israel has to search through the incoming goods to look for weapons.

Palestinians are caught in between Hamas and the IDF in a war. No one has said that is a good thing.

 

[Mika-El]

Except you didn’t......until just now, when you were called out on it.

I most certainly did and my responses are there for anyone yo see. I appreciate you may feel pressured to respond quickly but just understand you falsely attributed a statement to me I never stated. You don't like it done to you and neither do I.it detracts from the issues to be debated. Thank you.

 

[Deuce]

No he was not to be fair. You used the word starvation. Hamas is at war with Israel and bringing in weapons along with the food so Israel has to search through the incoming goods to look for weapons.

Palestinians are caught in between Hamas and the IDF in a war. No one has said that is a good thing.

Starvation does not mean "literally nobody in the region has any food whatsoever."

No one has said it's a good thing to oppress Palestinians but they are saying it's justified.

 

[Tigerace117]

Your continuing reference to my or anyone else's feelings is inappropriate. Please discuss the issues.

I will now respond to your comments about thd Lehi service ribbon.

There were at its peak 230 in Lehi. They did not represent anyone in their beliefs but themselves. They admired Mussolini and the Phelangistes in Lebanon. They were in fact admires of Stalin was well. They never reflected the Zionist movement and were rejected by the Zionist movement as being terrorist. They were rejected by the Palmach who are now the IDF.

I argue now that the reason you focus on them and the massacre they committed is because you engage in the tactic to select Lehti's service ribbon as an award for terrorism and so the entire IDF are terrorists to then justify what Hamas does.

Lehi were terrorists. Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were as members of them terrorists. Later when both were elected PM's there terrorist histories were most certainly criticized and questioned and the state of Israel denounced what Lehi did and in fact their oath of office had to denounce terrorism as a tool of the state.

The service ribbon recognizes the few members of it still alive as it does the Stern gang as historic reference to their assisting Jews escape to Israel not for committing crimes of terrorism. In fact the Palmach which then turned into the IDF denounced them. Many Israelis felt they should not have been given a service ribbon because it would enable people like you to slur all IDF as terrorists as I arguevyou do now in this thread.

I would argue the Lehi service ribbon has nothing to do with the current issue of this thread and deflects from a question asked of you and others on this thread criticizing the IDF and that is how can Palestinians and Israelis both be protected from Hamas.

The Lehi worked closely with the “mainstream” Israeli forces. Menachim Begin literally managed to become PM of Israel, so clearly their vicious actions and constant terrorism wasn’t a disqualifying factor in the minds of a hell of a lot of Israelis. Atrocities committed by the Lehi- namely Deir Yassin— were what played a major role in causing the Jordanian government, which out of Israel’s neighbors was the most benign, to go to war with Israel in 1948. They also murdered the UN mediator Folke Bernadotte(a man who, by the way, was responsible for saving hundreds of Danish Jews and tens of thousands of others) because they feared the Israeli leadership would agree to peace, which rightfully infuriated Sweden.

Most of the Lehi thugs, despite their constant terrorism— which included numerous attempted attacks in Britain itself— received amnesty for their crimes.

Yes, they absolutely were terrorists....and they were rewarded for it with the highest political offices in the country.

The gunmen at Deir Yassin were not punished; some of the men even received military service benefits. There were regular Israeli units in the area who let the thugs go. How is that ANY different than regular Heer soldiers turning a blind eye to SS atrocities?

 

[Mika-El]

No they didn't. But if there were rockets in the ghetto don't you think they would have used them? If the community that was looking genocide right in the eye had somehow managed to defeat the overwhelming military force used against them, you don't think they may have tried to establish a Jewish state right there?

Sorry I just saw your response. Both of us are going off topic.
Jews did join in resistance movements and serve in armies in WW2 but no they did not shoot at innocent civilians or place them in harms way.

Nazis put Jews in the Warsaw ghetto. Egypt created the Gaza strip to imprison Palestinians not Israel.

So trying to equate the treatment of Jews under Nazi Germany to what Israel does today to defend its people from Hamas is with due respect insulting to all victims of the Nazis but particularly to Israeli Jews and Jewish holocaust survivors who went to Israel because of it.

The Zionist is Nazi analogy does not justify what Hamas does nor are the IDF Na zix for defending their people from Hamas.

Nazis did not kill Jews because they were terrorizing Nazi Germany and had a charter like Hamas did kill off Germans and turn it into a Jewish state and were shooting at innocent Germans. The analogy is odious and defective and c why I challenge Tiger's doing the same in his responses. Thank you.

 

[Mika-El]

The Lehi worked closely with the “mainstream” Israeli forces. Menachim Begin literally managed to become PM of Israel, so clearly their vicious actions and constant terrorism wasn’t a disqualifying factor in the minds of a hell of a lot of Israelis. Atrocities committed by the Lehi- namely Deir Yassin— were what played a major role in causing the Jordanian government, which out of Israel’s neighbors was the most benign, to go to war with Israel in 1948. They also murdered the UN mediator Folke Bernadotte(a man who, by the way, was responsible for saving hundreds of Danish Jews and tens of thousands of others) because they feared the Israeli leadership would agree to peace, which rightfully infuriated Sweden.

Most of the Lehi thugs, despite their constant terrorism— which included numerous attempted attacks in Britain itself— received amnesty for their crimes.

Yes, they absolutely were terrorists....and they were rewarded for it with the highest political offices in the country.

The gunmen at Deir Yassin were not punished; some of the men even received military service benefits. There were regular Israeli units in the area who let the thugs go. How is that ANY different than regular Heer soldiers turning a blind eye to SS atrocities?

The Lehi did not work closely with anyone. Again you make false unsubstantiated statements. They were a tiny group who worked in secret and in fact would not reveal themselves to the Palmach for fear of being turned in.

You now engage in the "IDF are no different than Nazis analogy" showing your true agenda which is to offer no solutions just name call.

You again to deflect and c refuse to answer the question of how can both Israeli and Palestinian civilians be protected from Hamas?

You having nothing to offer other than the " IDF are Nazis slur.

 

[Tigerace117]

The Lehi did not work closely with anyone. Again younmakecfalse unsubstantiated statements. They wereca tiny group who worked in secret and in fact would not reveal themselves to the Palmach for fear of being turned in.

Um.....yes, they did. The attack on Deir Yassin was approved by the local Haganah commander.

Deir Yassin massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

“ Irgun and Lehi commanders approached David Shaltiel, the Haganah commander in Jerusalem, for approval. He was initially reluctant, because the villagers had signed a non-aggression pact, and suggested attacking Ein Karem instead. The Lehi and Irgun commanders complained that this would be too hard for them. Shaltiel ultimately yielded, on condition that the attackers would continue to occupy the village rather than destroying it, lest its ruins be used by Arab militias which would force the Jews to reconquer it.[1

According to Morris, it was agreed during planning meetings that the residents would be expelled. Lehi further proposed that any villagers who failed to flee should be killed to terrify the rest of the country's Arabs. Most of the fighters at the meetings, from both the Irgun and Lehi was for "liquidation of all the men in the village and any other force that opposed us, whether it be old people, women, or children."[2]”

They also played the main role in taking the village of Deir Yassin itself.

“ According to one Palmach fighter, "six of us went house to house, throwing grenades and bursting in."[51] Lehi officer David Gottlieb said the Palmach had accomplished "in one hour what we could not accomplish in several hours".[52] The story is corroborated by Palmach fighter Kalman Rosenblatt who said "Together with six [other] people I went from house to house. We threw grenades into the houses before we entered them. We met the Lehi and Etzel [Irgun] people in the middle of the village. Some of them joined us. Others said ‘Until now, we fought, now you fight.’ In the houses there were dead. The dissidents did not fight."[53] Hogan writes that Palmach's quick and injury free success and the small number of Irgun and Lehi casualties demonstrate that Deir Yassin's defenses were neither tough nor professional.[2]

Thanks to the rapid work of Palmach the fighting was over by about 11:00 am. Some villagers escaped and Jewish wounded were treated. At about 11:30 am Cohen was evacuated.[54] Meanwhile, the Palmachniks and the revisionists went house to house to "clean up" and secure them. Pa'il met Weg and urged him to get out of Deir Yassin: "get away from here! Don't get mixed up with the Irgun and Stern Gang [Lehi]."[2] The Palmach unit withdrew to Camp Schneller soon thereafter.[53] Pa'il regretted asking Weg to leave: "To this very day I am haunted by the mistake I made. I shouldn’t have let Yaki and his men leave, but I didn’t imagine there was going to be a massacre there.”

So the evidence....very clearly says otherwise.

 

[mrjurrs]

Sorry I just saw your response. Both of us are going off topic.
Jews did join in resistance movements and serve in armies in WW2 but no they did not shoot at innocent civilians or place them in harms way. Nazis put Jews in that ghetto. Egypt created the Gaza strip to imprison Palestinians not Israel.

Trying to equate thdctreatemtbof Jews under Nazi Germany to what Israel does today to defend its people from Hamas is with due respect insulting to all victims of the Naxzs but particularly to Israeli Jews. Thd Zionist is Nazi analogy does not justify what Hamas and when the IDF defends itsvpeoplevfrom Hamas they are not Nazis. Nazis did not kill Jews because they were terrorizing Naxi Germany and had a charter like Hamas did kill off Germans and turn it into a Jewish state so the analogy is odious.

I accept the lousy use of analogy, sorry, I know better.
My point is that Israel is attempting to drive the Palestinians into the sea. If you look at the land that was taken from them in 1948, and compare it to the land available to them now, it is hard to reach any other conclusion. Placing settlers in occupied lands is contrary to international law, Israel has been doing it for decades. Israel is passing laws that create a religious apartheid state, one set of laws for Jewish people (not religious laws) and another for Palestinians.

Based on the ongoing suppression from Israel, how would you expect the Palestinians to react. It's not like Israel did anything since the last time this circus happened to help them.

 

[Wayne Jr]

I say with respect, your comment shows equal contempt for both sides. I would cargue it is based on an assumption you are morally superior to the conflicted parties.

Would you agree if I said let the US kill itself over its internal conflicts?

The iceage I mentioned would cover the US as well. That's show ice ages work.

 

[Chagos]

The iceage I mentioned would cover the US as well. That's show ice ages work.

If it's going to be anything like the last one, it won't even reach. Neither the area of Palestine altogether, nor beyond those states of the US that get cold as hell anyway.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Of course the US does not arm terrorists like Hamas. They do have military agreements with Arab League nations.

What is unfair about not arming terrorists?

You need to read my post in the context of the post I was responding to.

It will all make sense then.

Oh, and I didn't say a word about Hamas.

 

[Mika-El]

You need to read my post in the context of the post I was responding to.

It will all make sense then.

Oh, and I didn't say a word about Hamas.

Sorry it doesn't in any context for the reasons I stated. Hamas is an illegal terrorist organization. It is not recognized as a legitimate government. It violates any and all laws except its own. If you want to write more clearly and differentiate Hamas from Palestinian people then I might see a point and then tell you the US and Israel and many nations in the past provided aid to Palestinian charities. What happened was Hamas intervened and in fact killed Palestinians receiving that aid and blew up the roads, schools, mosques, Israeli financial assistance built.

As well financial aid sent to the West Bank was intercepted by the PA and never distributed to its people and still is not distributed to its people. People in the Gaza turned to Hamas years ago because it was NOT a terrorist organization and run by the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood that distributed the money to charities. Its sister charities were funded by Israel. Palestinians came into Israel to work and the IDF and Israelis built roads, schools, hospitals, mosques.

Then a Syrian cell took over. It kicked out the Hamas members who did not believe in armed violence. It then blew up the infrastructure Israel financed sending a message to its people never to work with Israel. It would take people who worked with Israelis on its infrastructure and bring them to the centre of the city and shove wood poles up their backsides and pull out their anal cavities and leave them half dead on the street as a warning. It also used rubber necklaces-a technique of placing a tire around the neck of Palestinians and lighting them on fire. I know I was there.

The US has tried. Israel has tried. Hamas and Islamic Jihad and approximately 200 or so other terrorist cells right now control the West Bank and Gaza. Abbas is a corrupt and weak man with no control of his own network which is a loose set of cells each with its own leader who does what they want.

As for Hamas it too is a network of cells each with their own leader. There is no unity within Hamas or within the PA. These factions fight with one another as much as they do Israel. They are unpredictable and they kill their own people if they get in the way and rule by fear now. I know I was there. I saw how they would forcefully come at night and take boys out of their homes with mothers protesting to train them.

Yes the world is unfair and so is the ME if that is your point but to suggest the US is unfair or Israel is unfair or the US favours Israel over the Arab world is just not true.

There are research alliances the US has with Israel they can not have with Arab countries that benefit their military industrial complex that then translate in technology transfer to non military uses in the US. The money invested in Israeli technology is then used to enhance the value of American technology which more than pays back the investments.

The US benefits from its alliance with Israel. Israel has created more patents for technology and medicine than any other country in the world and shares it with the US.

The US also to be fair has always supported Egypt when asked, Saudi Arabia, Jordan. It rid Iraq of a homicidal maniac. Its people genuinely have allied with Israel not for money but because of deeply held shared values as to democracy. The US has and will criticize Israel. Its not captive to it and never has been or vice versa.

The US and I make no bones about it are the only nation today we all can rely on to fight terrorism financed by Iran and the Russian regime or assisted by North Korea or Turkey.

I know you disagree. I am just responding respectfully with an alternative view. Thank you.

 

[Mika-El]

I accept the lousy use of analogy, sorry, I know better.
My point is that Israel is attempting to drive the Palestinians into the sea. If you look at the land that was taken from them in 1948, and compare it to the land available to them now, it is hard to reach any other conclusion. Placing settlers in occupied lands is contrary to international law, Israel has been doing it for decades. Israel is passing laws that create a religious apartheid state, one set of laws for Jewish people (not religious laws) and another for Palestinians.

Based on the ongoing suppression from Israel, how would you expect the Palestinians to react. It's not like Israel did anything since the last time this circus happened to help them.

Well first thanks for the retraction. I really do appreciate that. I don't agree with you that the Israeli government has a policy to drive Palestinians into the sea. I would say candidly, and its only my opinion of course, certain Israeli policies have been counter-productive to achieving peace and may have fueled and incited extremists on the Palestinian side. Of course. I say that because Israelis say that. They acknowledge it all the time. If you read their press, heard their conversations on t.v. spoke to their citizens and soldiers, you would know that. Are there a faction of extremist Israelis who want all Palestinians dead, I do not think so but I have met some very hateful extremist Israelis who spit in my face and told me to go back to Canada yes and because of the uniform I wore they spit at it saying I was working for the government trying to betray them. I was not. I was just a volunteer in a volunteer unit doing social work and hygiene things.

Look I have friends in the IDF. They do not sit around wanting to kill Palestinians neither do Israelis. The real issue is with extremists. Terrorists. Israel's armed forces have to deal with their own Israeli extremists and I have seen them do it. I was part of that. It is not easy. You don't see the young IDF soldiers getting spit at from both sides.

Look the West Bank is not a land title dispute simply between Israeli settlers and Palestinians. Most of it is between Palestinians. You would know that if you went there. It most certainly has a different law fror Palestinians on the West Bank than it does its own citizens.

It most definitely has a dilemma. If it stays on the West Bank indefinitely the status quo can not prevail. It either annexes it, or it cedes it to a second sovereign state It does not want to annex it because Palestinians there would become Israeli citizens. It knows that. The current regime wants to settle in about one 6th of the total area. It knows in a peace deal it would have to pull Israelis out.

I also wish to explain to you that not all Israeli settlers stole land. They purchased it legally and they have as much a right to purchase land and live on the West Bank as Palestinians. That issue is not the issue of who should be the sovereign government there. Its not the same issue. The land title laws are not as you or many think, identical to the dispute of whether that land should be under the rule of a Palestinian or Israeli state but who owns the land as an individual whether its a Palestinian or Israeli state.

I did not come on this thread to rationalize or defend any unfair results of land disputes. There are many yes. Israel has itself to blame for many yes.

My discussion was limited to Hamas attacking Israel and Israel's right to defend itself and to argue and defend it when it is compared to Nazis. I do not think you like some other posters did that analogy to hate. You are trying to say to me, why if Jews suffered so much they don't understand stateless Palestinians. Please believe me they do more than you think and they are not the blood thirsty bastards they are depicted as.

Yes their nation has made mistakes. There are moderates in Palestine and Israel trying to find non violent ways to co-exist. They will in spite of all the Hamas experts on this or other forums.

Thank you.

 

[Chagos]

Well first thanks for the retraction. I really do appreciate that. I don't agree with you that the Israeli government has a policy to drive Palestinians into the sea. I would say candidly, and its only my opinion of course, certain Israeli policies have been counter-productive to achieving peace and may have fueled and incited extremists on the Palestinian side. Of course. I say that because Israelis say that. They acknowledge it all the time. If you read their press, heard their conversations on t.v. spoke to their citizens and soldiers, you would know that. Are there a faction of extremist Israelis who want all Palestinians dead, I do not think so but I have met some very hateful extremist Israelis who spit in my face and told me to go back to Canada yes and because of the uniform I wore they spit at it saying I was working for the government trying to betray them. I was not. I was just a volunteer in a volunteer unit doing social work and hygiene things.

Look I have friends in the IDF. They do not sit around wanting to kill Palestinians neither do Israelis. The real issue is with extremists. Terrorists. Israel's armed forces have to deal with their own Israeli extremists and I have seen them do it. I was part of that. It is not easy. You don't see the young IDF soldiers getting spit at from both sides.

Look the West Bank is not a land title dispute simply between Israeli settlers and Palestinians. Most of it is between Palestinians. You would know that if you went there. It most certainly has a different law fror Palestinians on the West Bank than it does its own citizens.

It most definitely has a dilemma. If it stays on the West Bank indefinitely the status quo can not prevail. It either annexes it, or it cedes it to a second sovereign state It does not want to annex it because Palestinians there would become Israeli citizens. It knows that. The current regime wants to settle in about one 6th of the total area. It knows in a peace deal it would have to pull Israelis out.

I also wish to explain to you that not all Israeli settlers stole land. They purchased it legally and they have as much a right to purchase land and live on the West Bank as Palestinians. That issue is not the issue of who should be the sovereign government there. Its not the same issue. The land title laws are not as you or many think, identical to the dispute of whether that land should be under the rule of a Palestinian or Israeli state but who owns the land as an individual whether its a Palestinian or Israeli state.

I did not come on this thread to rationalize or defend any unfair results of land disputes. There are many yes. Israel has itself to blame for many yes.

My discussion was limited to Hamas attacking Israel and Israel's right to defend itself and to argue and defend it when it is compared to Nazis. I do not think you like some other posters did that analogy to hate. You are trying to say to me, why if Jews suffered so much they don't understand stateless Palestinians. Please believe me they do more than you think and they are not the blood thirsty bastards they are depicted as.

Yes their nation has made mistakes. There are moderates in Palestine and Israel trying to find non violent ways to co-exist. They will in spite of all the Hamas experts on this or other forums.

Thank you.