[W: 37] BoJo tries to defend weak sanctions in Parliament

[Ginza]

Anybody who ever visited the Netherlands knows that there is no mountains in the Netherlands, almost every region of the Netherlands has no geography to hide armed resistance fighters.

Is that some kind of pathetically weak excuse because the Dutch did not resist the German invasion like the Ukrainians are doing with the Russians?

For your info : "Ukraine's land is mostly flat or rolling hills, with the Carpathian Mountains in the far west of the country."

 

[Ginza]

the UK would have been crushed like all other European countries in 1940.

Yet more silly speculation aimed only at demeaning the UK and glorifying your heroes, the Germans.

How would the Germans have got their men across the channel when the British navy had destroyed the Germman navy and the Luftwaffe was defeated during the Battle of Britain?

The Germans failed almost everywhere after their initial successes when their opponents were caught unawares by a country that had been preparing for war for many years.

They failed miserably in Russia, where they failed to take any of the three major cities, and then had their arse's kicked by the Russians all the way to Berlin.

They lost the Battle of Britain. Their Navy was destroyed by the British. They gave relatively little resistance to the Allies on D Day and then were chased out of a number of European nations in a matter of only months. They lost in North Africa to the British. The Ardennes offensive was a disaster. The British and Americans, Australians, Kiwis etc kicked them out of Italy. They lost the battle for the Atlantic.

 

[Peter King]

The Spanish started with concentration camps in Cuba, a few years later the British started using concentration camps on the Boer population. After that it spread all over the world.

The big difference with the Nazi's is that they created extermination camps, but again, this has nothing to do with the accusation that BOJO and his conservatives did not do enough against the Oligarchs (some agree others point to other countries only) or how Zelensky has been abusing the Shoah to win the war of propaganda with the Russians. Which is stupid, Zelensky already won that propaganda war, nobody believes Putin/Russians. Everybody is already on the side of the Ukrainians, no need to use false arguments like the holocaust, that is twaddle from Zelensky.

 

[Peter King]

Yet more silly speculation aimed only at demeaning the UK and glorifying your heroes, the Germans.

How would the Germans have got their men across the channel when the British navy had destroyed the Germman navy and the Luftwaffe was defeated during the Battle of Britain?

The Germans failed almost everywhere after their initial successes when their opponents were caught unawares by a country that had been preparing for war for many years.

They failed miserably in Russia, where they failed to take any of the three major cities, and then had their arse's kicked by the Russians all the way to Berlin.

They lost the Battle of Britain. Their Navy was destroyed by the British. They gave relatively little resistance to the Allies on D Day and then were chased out of a number of European nations in a matter of only months. They lost in North Africa to the British. The Ardennes offensive was a disaster. The British and Americans, Australians, Kiwis etc kicked them out of Italy. They lost the battle for the Atlantic.

Great more twaddle and outright untruths. How par for the course yet again.

Try and read for a change. I stated that IF THE UK HAD NOT HAD A SEA BETWEEN THEM AND GERMANY, the UK would have been crushed by the Blitzkrieg. Which makes it a "what if" thing which could never happen DUE TO THE WATER between the occupied continent and the UK.

I also talked about hypothetical events that are just that hypothetical, aka, things that never happened because the Germans did invade the Soviet Union and the UK got loads of help from the US. Especially after Pearl Harbor.

 

[Ginza]

The Spanish started with concentration camps in Cuba

You'd better tell that to your cheerleader.

 

[Ginza]

BOJO and his conservatives did not do enough against the Oligarchs

Lol!

That's really funny.

Have you ever thought who made the Oligarchs rich in the first place?

Let me help you :

"In 2020, the EU was Russia's first trade partner, accounting for 37.3% of the country's total trade in goods with the world. 36.5% of Russia's imports came from the EU and 37.9% of its exports went to the EU. In 2021, the total trade in goods between the EU and Russia amounted to €257.5 billion."

EU trade relations with Russia

Facts, figures and latest developments.

ec.europa.eu

 

[Peter King]

Is that some kind of pathetically weak excuse because the Dutch did not resist the German invasion like the Ukrainians are doing with the Russians?

For your info : "Ukraine's land is mostly flat or rolling hills, with the Carpathian Mountains in the far west of the country."

Ever heard about forests? Even that is something the Netherlands has not a lot from.

And partizans were in more places than the Ukraine.

 

[Peter King]

You'd better tell that to your cheerleader.

and more nonsensical insults at someone who posts things that you have issue with. In your words, grow up.

 

[Ginza]

Ever heard about forests? Even that is something the Netherlands has not a lot from.

Ok, so lack of forests is now your excuse for the Dutch lack of resistance to the German invasion.

It was lack of mountains a few posts back, before I taught you that Ukraine has few mountains too.

You're a laugh a minute.

 

[Peter King]

Ok, so lack of forests is now your excuse for the Dutch lack of resistance to the German invasion.

It was lack of mountains a few posts back, before I taught you that Ukraine has few mountains too.

You're a laugh a minute.

Still making nonsense insulting comments, as said par for the course.

Never said it was the lack of mountains or forests, but if you have no places to hide being partizan fighters is a bit difficult. Also partizan fighters had the luck of being in countries where the allied forces could arm you with weapons and ammo.

We had been occupied, we weren't having a knees up with the nazi's. Ask the 2,000/3,000 resistance members who were executed by the Germans. Ask that of the hundreds of thousands people who were protected from the Germans by being hidden by other Dutch people. Ask that of the organizers of the February strike, they were executed for their strike. Ask that of the 601 men from the village of Putten. A wehrmacht officer was ambushed and as a reprisal almost the entire male population of Putten was deported to German concentration camps, only 49 of the 602 survived the concentration camps. Ask that of the 25,000 people who were jailed in the Oranje Hotel, who were mostly sent to concentration camps and prisons/prisoner camps in Germany. Ask that of the 250 people who were jailed in the Oranje Hotel and were executed for resistance to the Germans. Tell that to the people who got picked up for listening to Radio Oranje, to hear our queen speak and get news about the war. Ask that of the people risking their lives to produce "newspapers" that reported on the German crimes and Allied activities, making such a paper or distributing it could end up costing you your life.

Ask that of the resistance fighters who attacked General Rauter's car, as a reprisal the Germans went to a Dutch hamlet called Woeste Hoeve, where 117 men were rounded up and executed on the site of the ambush. The Gestapo then as a reprisal also killed 147 of their hostages. The Nazi's had decided that they wanted to discourage resistance activities from the Dutch so hundreds of respectable people from several parts and classes of our society were arrested and if there were resistance activities hostages were executed.

The vast majority of the Dutch did no active resistance for several reasons, only a minority actively resisted. That had several reasons, for example being occupied by the Nazi's did not help now did it.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

As I said, however, my attempted explanation was speculative. I know as little about what is Ukrainian policy by now as anybody else does. And just as little about who defines it in the obvious chaos by now reigning.

See below

Anecdotal, although that doesn't make it untrue. Having to wait for hours at the border crossings has happened to a lot of Ukrainian women and their kids, the males (husbands, fathers etc.) having been refused altogether on account of conscription

The UN had to get involved, one senior Ukrainian minister had to get involved. The evidence is out there.

U.N. urges countries to open borders to Africans fleeing Ukraine

The U.N. refugee agency has urged authorities in countries neighbouring Ukraine to open their borders to African citizens fleeing the conflict there amid reports that some were being denied access to safety, UNHCR said on Wednesday.

www.reuters.com

raises the question why such a move is necessary altogether. Sounds a lot like washing hands on the matter,

The argument I heard made sense - local knowledge of services can be better supplied by people on the ground than by govt agency.

are you making a point against your line of thinking here?

Nope. Just pointing out facts and history. Put those refugees in hotels like the Syrians and Afghans are and you'll get Farage and his mob outside complaining

Maybe that has to do with no Muslim country (to the best of my knowledge) having caused this refugee crisis and consequently not having been assisted by any Muslim billionaire in any such venture.

Well, PeteEU made a claim about British Govt turning a blind eye to Oligarchs but punishing muslim billionaires so I want to see evidence.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Boris Johnson is a stooge for Putin, so is Farage.
Brits who voted for him love fascism.

 

[Ginza]

Jews celebrate their new hero :

“Tonight, we celebrate Shabbat with a world that is unified in this moment, behind a Jewish president of Ukraine who comes from a grandfather who was the only son of four who survived the Holocaust,” Rabbi Ryan Bauer of Temple Emanu-El in San Francisco said in his weekly sermon."

"There are no debates, on the other hand, on how Zelenskyy has faced down Vladimir Putin"

"Our love of Zelenskyy is wrapped up in our fear for his death. We watch him and wonder if we are witness to a cruel pre-martydom, or if, by some (Jewish) miracle, the story will have a happy ending."

‘I’m terrified for him’: American Jews hearts are tied to Zelenskyy’s fate

Why Jews cry when Zelenskyy speaks

forward.com

Whilst Jews celebrate their new hero and he has received standing ovations from British, American, Germany and Canadian politicians, some silly internet warriors ignore the greatness of this man and insult him.

 

[Ginza]

"Ukraine rates the 4th in the number of people recognized as "Righteous Among the Nations" for saving Jews during the Holocaust, with the total of 2,515 individuals recognized as of 1 January 2015.

Statistics - The Righteous Among The Nations - Yad Vashem

web.archive.org

 

[Peter King]

Indeed, 2,673 Ukrainians have been recognized as such by the Yad Vashem Holocaust remembrance center, with the fourth most people recognized as having saved Jews. But the memorial stresses that such comparisons are insignificant because these people were the exception, not the rule.


In many parts of Ukraine there are memorials and statues that commemorate Nazi collaborators.

Just two months ago, the Israeli Embassy in Kyiv was forced to condemn torchlight processions held in honor of Stefan Bandera, the Ukrainian nationalist who collaborated with the Nazis.

“Without the massive help of Ukrainian auxiliary police units, the Germans would have had a very difficult time murdering so many Jews so quickly,” Prof. Omer Bartov, author of the book “Anatomy of a Genocide: The Life and Death of a Town Called Buczacz,” told Haaretz in an interview to mark the opening of a Babi Yar memorial four months ago.

The journalist Shimon Riklin pointed to John Demjanjuk as an example. A Ukrainian by birth, Demjanjuk was taken prisoner by the Germans and served as a guard at the Sobibor extermination camp. Many of the guards at the camps were Ukrainian.


In Israel, there are Jews who owe their lives to a handful of Ukrainians who helped them in their time of need. One of them is the historian Prof. Shimon Redlich. But, what is missing from the ambassador’s remarks is considerably more important. Alongside the handful who rescued Jews, there were many others who did exactly the opposite. They didn’t just fail to help their neighbors but hunted them down, turned them over to the Nazis and even murdered them with their own hands—all with enthusiasm and joy, and without force or invitation.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...in-the-holocaust-history-disagrees-1.10645556

 

[Peter King]

Population Ukraine 1941 was 37 million, Jews murdered by the Germans (with the enthusiastic help of many nationalist Ukrainians) and Ukrainians without German help or being spurred on by the Germans. Between 1.2 to 1.6 Jews were murdered in or from Ukraine.

Massacres in Ukraine

• 1941 Bila Tserkva massacre
• 1941 Odessa massacre
• Babi Yar
• Dniepropetrovsk
• Drobytsky Yar
• Feodosiya
• Ivano-Frankovsk
• Kamenets-Podolskiy massacre
• Klevan
• Lviv pogroms (1941)
• Massacre of Lwów professors
• Mezhirichi
• Mizoch
• Nikolaev massacre
• Olyka
• Pliskov
• Terebovl
• Zhytomyr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Ukraine#Death_toll


The Netherlands population in 1941 was 8.8 million people. Number of Jews murdered by the Germans (sometimes with mostly reluctant help but some with more enthusiasm of Dutch people and Jews) was about 110,000 to 120,000.

There were no reported Ukraine like mass murders/massacres reported in the Netherlands. The death of these Dutch people (of Jewish religion) was perpetrated in Germany or occupied countries.


Righteous among the Nations Ukraine (out of a population of 37 million) is 2,673

Righteous among the Nations the Netherlands (out of a population around 9 million) is 5,910

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Righteous_Among_the_Nations

 

[Ginza]

"Israeli Foreign Minister Yair Lapid, whose late father was a Holocaust survivor, thanked Zelensky for the speech :

“We will continue to assist the Ukrainian people as much as we can and we will never turn our backs to the plight of people who know the horrors of war,” Lapid said."

Whilst the usual bitter and "out of step" few continue to condemn Ukrainians for the support some of their people gave to the Nazis in WW2 (whilst ignoring the support their own countrymen gave to the Germans in WW2, even providing the "supposed" enemy with entire divisions of Waffen SS soldiers)....they need to be reminded that the Ukrainian people voted in a Jew as their President, which makes a nonsense of his continual claims that the Ukrainians are anti-Jewish.

The same sour faces are even in favour of some Eastern European EU members being expelled from the European Union (even though Poland has done more to help the Ukrainian people that any other EU member).....so the criticism of the Ukrainian President is not altogether unexpected. He is just not Woke enough for the "holier than thou" brigade.

 

[PeteEU]

Ukraine war: Only 2,700 visas issued to fleeing Ukrainian refugees under Homes for Ukraine scheme despite over 28,000 applications being made

Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said the government has made "shamefully slow progress" on helping refugees flee Ukraine.

news.sky.com

Tsk.