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[W:3596] Arguments Against Same-Sex Marriage

Rich2018

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The exclusion of closely related couples with no rational justification required by the US Constitution...

Good, so am I

....Im an atheist and Matrimony is from Latin Matrimonium which predates Christianity. Latin root of the word Mater, MOTHER. Its biology not religion that dictates only women give birth and only a man is responsible for her doing so.

What does "Holy Matrimony" mean?
 

Lisa

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The Code of Hammurabi limited marriage to men and women. Its biology, not religion that limited marriage to men and women. And Matrimony is from Latin Matrimonium that predated Christianity. The root of the word Mater, MOTHER. Only a man can make a woman a mother.
This enduring, elaborate institution of marriage didn't come into existence and evolve because people were engaging in sex. It did so because when men and women engage in sex, a child is frequently the result.

Marriage has never been about procreation, despite your claims. It was a political and financial merger for many years. What is it going to take for you to understand that procreation and marriage are separate? One does not require the other.

A man did not have to be married to women to make her a mother. You are vainly grasping at straws in your entire argument.
 

Quag

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The exclusion of closely related couples with no rational justification required by the US Constitution



Im an atheist and Matrimony is from Latin Matrimonium which predates Christianity. Latin root of the word Mater, MOTHER. Its biology not religion that dictates only women give birth and only a man is responsible for her doing so.

Origin of matrimony

1250–1300; Middle English < Latin mātrimōnium wedlock. See matri-, -mony
Matrimony | Definition of Matrimony at Dictionary.com

It may be from an older word in another language but in English the word matrimony comes after Christianity
Not that it is relevant because being able to procreate is not a requirement of marriage.
 

dixon01767

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So absolutely nothing?
Ok when are you going to present an argument against SSM?

I presented my arguement and instead of refuting it you suggested I take it to the supreme court. I suspect because you cant refute it.
 

Cougarbear

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Are you are that the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights that creates a strict separation between religion and the secular government? Jefferson and madison were adamant that religion and law must be kept absolutely separate for social stability and both secular and religious freedom of all people. The Free Exercise Clause of the 1st mandates equal religious freedom for all people and not just religious freedom for your branch of Christianity.
God was never part of the US government and sin is not part of our laws, so take your plagiarized bronze aged myths back where they came from.

But, for most of the U.S. time as a country, religion was in everything. Schools, governments opened with prayer (congress still does) and most everything else. As a country, we grew better as a nation and as a people eliminating slavery and other injustices. All with religion in everything. But now not only is religion banished, but so is God. We now are teetering on anarchy with no firm foundation. Even our Constitution is hanging by a thread as demented socialist/communists want to fundamentally change America. We see Democrats calling Republicans fascists, racists, homophobes, less than human, deplorables and worse. There is no civility as the rule of law is declining. We have State against State, City against City, neighborhood against neighborhood, father against son, mother against daughter and it gets worse. All because liberals want to exclude God from everything.

The founding fathers did not want God excluded from our country. They did not want people not to be able to judge their elected officials without their beliefs in God. The 1st amendment only excludes the Federal Government from establishing a Federal Religion. It also excludes the Federal Government from denying the free exercise of a single person's religious belief in God. The bill of rights is not a list of things that give the Federal Government rights. The bill of rights is a list of laws that stop the Federal Government from infringing upon the rights of individuals and states. Go back to school and actually take a class on the Constitution from someone that actually knows this.
 

Cougarbear

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Matrimony | Definition of Matrimony at Dictionary.com

It may be from an older word in another language but in English the word matrimony comes after Christianity
Not that it is relevant because being able to procreate is not a requirement of marriage.

To God it is. Entrance into the Kingdom of God requires obedience and repentance so that the Atonement of Christ will have power to forgive us before the judgments seat of the Father. Marriage is only between a man and a woman.
 

dixon01767

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Matrimony | Definition of Matrimony at Dictionary.com

It may be from an older word in another language but in English the word matrimony comes after Christianity
Not that it is relevant because being able to procreate is not a requirement of marriage.

Well thats because the English language comes after Christianity. And no one claimed it was a requirement other than in ancient Mesopotamia where the husband got a refund of the price he paid for his wife if she doesnt produce a child.
 

Cougarbear

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Marriage has never been about procreation, despite your claims. It was a political and financial merger for many years. What is it going to take for you to understand that procreation and marriage are separate? One does not require the other.

A man did not have to be married to women to make her a mother. You are vainly grasping at straws in your entire argument.

Marriage is all about procreation and through this joy in our posterity through all history. This was established in a covenant between God and Adam and Eve. Anything outside the bounds of this covenant is a sin. In some places, marriages were arranged. But, not all places. Just in the upper elites of societies. Everyone else still saw marriage as an opportunity to have joy in their posterity. Marriage in covenant with God is the glue that holds a society together. Not governments.
 

dixon01767

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Are you are that the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights that creates a strict separation between religion and the secular government? .

Actually it created the seperation between the FEDERAL government and religion. In our nations early history, 6 states out of the original 13 had established religions.
 

dixon01767

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Marriage is all about procreation and through this joy in our posterity through all history..

Thats the dawn of civilization through the 20th century marriage. 21st century American marriage has nothing to do with procreation and is instead all ablut helping gays feel better about their homosexuality.
 

Cougarbear

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Thats the dawn of civilization through the 20th century marriage. 21st century American marriage has nothing to do with procreation and is instead all ablut helping gays feel better about their homosexuality.

For all gays and liberals who are Godless and lost in their beliefs and understanding of God, true. For the rest of us, it's about following God and making the marriage covenant with God having joy in our posterity along with our spouses.
 
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If morality is objective (as most religions believe), then why is it wrong for gay people to have relationships with men when women can have relationships with men. If it's wrong for gays then it must be equally wrong for women.

Also, it's quite hypocritical for these people to assert what's "natural" while at the same time in other debates they are forever appealing to the "supernatural" and dismissing physical evidence.
 

Quag

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I presented my arguement and instead of refuting it you suggested I take it to the supreme court. I suspect because you cant refute it.

What argument?
Elderly sisters cant marry thus SSM shouldn't be allowed?
If its not that then try explaining what it is
If it is then why?
 

Quag

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To God it is. Entrance into the Kingdom of God requires obedience and repentance so that the Atonement of Christ will have power to forgive us before the judgments seat of the Father. Marriage is only between a man and a woman.

God is irrelevant to the discussion
 

Quag

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Well thats because the English language comes after Christianity. And no one claimed it was a requirement other than in ancient Mesopotamia where the husband got a refund of the price he paid for his wife if she doesnt produce a child.

English existed before the word matrimony sand it has no bearing on SSM
 

Lisa

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Marriage is all about procreation and through this joy in our posterity through all history. This was established in a covenant between God and Adam and Eve. Anything outside the bounds of this covenant is a sin. In some places, marriages were arranged. But, not all places. Just in the upper elites of societies. Everyone else still saw marriage as an opportunity to have joy in their posterity. Marriage in covenant with God is the glue that holds a society together. Not governments.

Procreation has nothing to do with marriage in the US because of it did then couples would be required to submit to a fertility test to prove that they have the ability to procreate as well as signing a pledge that their marriage will be annulled if they d do not produce offspring withi5 years. Marriage would also be denied to post-menopausal women and people who are intersexxed.

Religious laws cannot be enforced by the state without violating both religious freedom clauses of the 1st Amendment. I as an atheist can be required to live my life by the beliefs of another religion because I have equal religious send secure eights as everyone else.
 

Rich2018

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...but now not only is religion banished, but so is God. We now are teetering on anarchy...

Religion has not been banishes as you claim - as an advanced country people are staring to not believe it in larger numbers.
As has been said, the more you know, the less you believe

When religion is dismissed, so is the idea that there exists some god or gods.

To your second wilder claim, no the USA has not lurched towards anarchy - if indeed you know what the word means.

...even our Constitution is hanging by a thread as demented socialist/communists want to fundamentally change America....


What do you see as the Constitution hanging "by a thread"?

What are "demented" socialists and communists doing to fundamentally change America and why is their goal a bad thing?

...we see Democrats calling Republicans fascists, racists, homophobes, less than human, deplorables and worse. There is no civility....

Clearly you've not heard the rhetoric from Trump nor his rabble rousing rallies

....all because liberals want to exclude God from everything....

What specifically would happen or not happen if religion was as widespread as in the past?

...the founding fathers did not want God excluded from our country....

Just separated to establish the first and so far the world's only secular state.
 

Lisa

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Actually it created the separation between the FEDERAL government and religion. In our nations early history, 6 states out of the original 13 had established religions.
If the projections of the 1st Amendment, among others, only applied to the federal government then states and cities could also infringe on our rights and we would still not have secular and legal protections. As we all live in a state that oversight was corrected in the Incorpoation Doctrine of the 14th Amendment that applied all of those protections o to states, counties and local government, including public school boards.
The incorporation doctrine is a constitutional doctrine through which the first ten amendments of the United States Constitution (known as the Bill of Rights) are made applicable to the states through the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Prior to the doctrine's (and the Fourteenth Amendment's) existence, the Bill of Rights applied only to the Federal Government and to federal court cases. States and state courts could choose to adopt similar laws, but were under no obligation to do so.

After the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Supreme Court favored a process called “selective incorporation.” Under selective incorporation, the Supreme Court would incorporate certain parts of certain amendments, rather than incorporating an entire amendment at once.

As a note, the Ninth Amendment and the Tenth Amendment have not been incorporated, and it is unlikely that they ever will be. The text of the Tenth Amendment directly interacts with state law, and the Supreme Court rarely relies upon the Ninth Amendment when deciding cases.
Incorporation Doctrine | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute
 

Lisa

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For all gays and liberals who are Godless and lost in their beliefs and understanding of God, true. For the rest of us, it's about following God and making the marriage covenant with God having joy in our posterity along with our spouses.

You are describing the religious sacrament of holy matrimony that is controlled by each religion individually and not by the state. Marriage a secular civil control between the state and 2 consenting adults. The state cannot force any church to marry any couple, even if they are white, hetero and members of their own church because that would violate the separation of church and state. Any and all religious sacraments are not civil rights.

I cannot be lost in god because there is absolutely not to support that any god has ever existed. The Bible is the work of man, so logically it cannot also be claimed to be proof of god without committing the archetypal circular logic fallacy. The Bible is no more proof of God than Harry Potter books are proof of Dementor and werewolves.

Your god is an incompetent, illogical, gaslighting genocidal bastard that makes Charles Mason look rational and compassionate.
 
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Rich2018

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I cannot be lost in god because there is absolutely not to support that any god has ever existed. The Bible is the work of man, so logically it cannot also be claimed to be proof of god without committing the archetypal circular logic fallacy. The Bible is no more proof of God than Harry Potter books are proof of Demetor and werewolves.

Your god is an incompetent, illogical, gaslighting genocidal bastard that makes Charles Mason look rational and compassionate.

You should enjoy the Skepticism board.

Cougar makes no mention of the gays and liberals who are godly and seek to establish SSM.
 

roguenuke

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Biology limited marriage to men and women, not religion.

Marriage is a human construct which has absolutely zero to do with biology. Marriage isn't natural at all, so nothing about biology applies to marriage, particularly not legal marriage.
 

roguenuke

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The exclusion of closely related couples with no rational justification required by the US Constitution

Im an atheist and Matrimony is from Latin Matrimonium which predates Christianity. Latin root of the word Mater, MOTHER. Its biology not religion that dictates only women give birth and only a man is responsible for her doing so.

Then challenge it in court.
 

dixon01767

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For all gays and liberals who are Godless and lost in their beliefs and understanding of God, true. For the rest of us, it's about following God and making the marriage covenant with God having joy in our posterity along with our spouses.

I was referring to the law. For the individual it can still mean what it does to them individually.
 

dixon01767

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Marriage is a human construct which has absolutely zero to do with biology..

Now it doesnt. Dawn of civilization through the 20th century marriage was limited to men and women because only men and women procreate. Biology.
 
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