[W:270]President Trump makes a compelling argument (1 Viewer)

Airyaman said:

Try google. That's what I did, 2nd link: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...al-crime-statistics-immigration-a8725026.html

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The Texas Department of Public Safety reports that between June 2011 to December 2018, undocumented immigrants account for 120,000 convictions.


Out of the “539 murders” Mr Trump cited, only 238 resulted in convictions. Of the “32,000 assaults” and “3,426 sexual assaults”, only 13,599 and 1,689 were convicted respectively.

As for the “3000 weapons charges”, there were actually fewer than 2,500 charges brought and only 1,280 were convicted.

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OpportunityCost said:

Just to be clear, when do the numbers matter to you? How many victims do we need for it to "count"?

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OpportunityCost said:

Just to be clear, when do the numbers matter to you? How many victims do we need for it to "count"?

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Airyaman said:

Try google. That's what I did, 2nd link: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...al-crime-statistics-immigration-a8725026.html

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Airyaman said:

Put up a wall.

It will not appreciably reduce violent crime in America.

Show me how I am wrong.

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In fact, the number of deportable illegal immigrants located by the US Border Patrol plummeted by more than 89 percent over the five-year period during which the controversial new fence was built, according to Homeland Security data I reviewed. When the project first started in 2006, illegal crossings totaled 122,261, but by 2010, when the 131-mile fence was completed from one end of El Paso out into the New Mexico desert, immigrant crossings shrank to just 12,251

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Before 2010, federal data show the border city was mired in violent crime and drug smuggling, thanks in large part to illicit activities spilling over from the Mexican side. Once the fence went up, however, things changed almost overnight. El Paso since then has consistently topped rankings for cities of 500,000 residents or more with low crime rates, based on FBI-collected statistics. The turnaround even caught the attention of former Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and other Obama administration officials, who touted it as one of the nation’s safest cities while citing the beefed-up border security there.

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trixare4kids said:

Agree? Disagree? If the latter, document why DJT does not make a compelling case for border enforcements;/barriers/wall/steel slats.

Conflating the argument with he's a "Russian spy" or a bloated orange buffoon does not count as a compelling argument. IOW, don't derail this thread with the usual sophomoric, anti-Trump banter.



Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

23% of Federal inmates are illegal immigrants. Border arrests are up 240%. In the Great State of Texas, between 2011 & 2018, there were a total of 292,000 crimes by illegal aliens, 539 murders, 32,000 assaults, 3,426 sexual assaults and 3000 weapons charges. Democrats come back!


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1084098258534891521

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trixare4kids said:

You mean your source that says some of the figures are correct – or close to correct?

The author of your article mangled what the president wrote to deliberately mislead the reader by conflating and obfuscating.

Glad I could help!

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Slyfox696 said:

Proponents of gun control have been asking people who identify politically similarly to you that very question for years.

Tell me, if you think "539 murders" is enough to justify spending billions on a "solution" many experts agree will not solve the very problem it is supposed to address, then shouldn't the over 11,000 homicides by firearm be enough to suggest a much greater national emergency and a much greater response?

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OpportunityCost said:

There is no way to do so without evidence. Evidence comes from finding out by building it.

Here is some anecdotal evidence for you, however: https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/we-already-have-a-border-wall-and-it-works/

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Airyaman said:

Your source for such an accusation is...yourself?

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DHS: 23% of all federal prisoners are illegals, just 7 of 42,034 saved from deportation


Nearly one-quarter of all federal inmates are illegal immigrants and virtually all are in deportation proceedings or already face removal orders, according to a new Homeland Security report.

The Justice Department's Bureau of Prisons, fulfilling a presidential executive order requiring transparency on prisoner immigration status, said that it houses 187,855 inmates of which 42,034 are foreign born.

The DHS report said that only seven of those 42,034 have been granted deportation "relief." According to DHS:

19,749 (46.9 percent) are aliens who have received final orders of removal.
21,121 (50.2 percent) are aliens who are under ICE investigation for possible removal.
1,157 (2.8 percent) are aliens whose cases are pending adjudication before an Immigration Judge in the Executive Office of Immigration Review (EOIR).
7 (.0002 percent) are aliens who have been granted relief.

Homeland also said that the U.S. Marshal Service has a similar breakdown in its cells. Of 50,135 they've detained, 12,005 "self-report" as illegals. They are all in some type of deportation proceeding:
9,857 (82.1 percent) are aliens who have received final orders of removal.
2,047 (17.1 percent) are aliens whose cases are still pending adjudication before an immigration judge in the EOIR.
101 (.8 percent) are aliens still pending adjudication (U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement has charged these aliens as removal cases, but a final disposition has not yet been reached.)

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OpportunityCost said:

Does the topic look like gun control to you?

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Airyaman said:

Your source for such an accusation is...yourself?

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Slyfox696 said:

Can't answer the question huh?

This topic is about using statistics to justify action. If 539 murders is enough to justify action, why isn't over 11,000?

Like I said, proponents of gun control have been asking the same question of people like you for years. Interesting how when it comes to preventing the murder of children, those who believe politically similarly to you give a big yawn, yet when it comes to keeping brown skinned people out of the country, suddenly no number is small enough to use for purposes of fear mongering.

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OpportunityCost said:

I refused to be sidetracked into a subject just as complicated as this one. Perhaps you could try to deal with the topic matter instead of trying to deflect.

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Airyaman said:

Thanks Nancy Pelosi.

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trixare4kids said:

Dept. of Homeland Security...

Yours appears to be some leftist wingnut who calls themselves a 'journalist'.



You're very welcome, my friend!

DHS: 23% of all federal prisoners are illegals, just 7 of 42,034 saved from deportation

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Slyfox696 said:

Yes, I'm well aware that intellectual honesty is difficult for some people.

If 539 murders is enough for action, then surely 11,000 is enough for action. So why do people who believe similarly as you only care about one and not the other?

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OpportunityCost said:

Evidence from border towns shows it works. Don't get cute and try to bait. You aren't good enough.

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Airyaman said:

Nancy Pelosi said of Obamacare: "let's pass the bill so we can see what's in it". You said "Evidence comes from finding out by building it."

Tell me how what you said is fundamentally different than what Nancy said.

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OpportunityCost said:

It is a different subject with different issues at play.

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Slyfox696 said:

Nope, it is supposedly about the safety of Americans. That has been the argument put forth by Trump and his supporters.

So, again, if 539 murders justifies billions in spending on something that so many agree won't work, then shouldn't 11,000 murders receive even more attention? Why is keeping the brown people out more important than keeping our school children safe?

No matter how many times you want to avoid the question, it is 100% on topic, according to the argument put forth by Trump, as stated in the OP. Your refusal to reply speaks volumes.

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OpportunityCost said:

Different issue, different topic, try discussing this one...

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Slyfox696 said:

I am discussing this one. I already explained to you how. Either respond honestly or stop posting dishonest responses. Either way is good with me.

This is supposedly about the safety of Americans. That's what I'm discussing. I'm using the statistics provided in the OP to make my argument. You won't reply for reasons we both understand well.

Again, you can respond to my question honestly or you can stop posting dishonest responses. Either way would work for me.

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