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[W:2475] Ariz. State Senate Hears Preliminary Audit Report

wow, just wow. Simple questions with such a verbose response.
I find it interesting that my fellow Republicans did a very good job in setting up mail in voting in Arizona and you are attacking them. I find it interesting that is was not till the results of the 2020 election that some started to complain about mail in voting.

It is well known your hatred for the left. It seems to spill over to Republicans who do not share your view on voting.

What Logan presented at the briefing was misleading, speculate and playing to the what if game.
- No evidence the voting system was hooked to the internet. Past technical audits proved that they were not connected.
- Misrepresenting data files V32 and V33.

At least Logan released who is really funding the Cyber Ninjas "audit". I am not surprised. Bet those big donors expect certain findings for their money.
Let's see if I can get through to you, DON'T GIVE A DAMN what supposed Republicans did as IMO there is no justification for anything other than in person voting or official absentee ballots. My point stands, any supposed Republican that voted for Biden is no Republican or conservative. The issue is bigger than the Arizona audit, it is the entitlement mentality and hatred of far too many based upon ignorance that caused people to vote against Trump giving us Biden. If I hated Trump as much as you apparently do, there isn't a thing that would have kept me from the polls, would have bought a tent and slept there to be the first one in line to vote
 
Something that seems to get lost in these Obama/Trump comparisons is that the slower growth later in Obama's term was based on reduced deficits. Trump doubled the deficit spending and the economy grew more. There was no magic involved, just more govt stimulus.

What the real message is from this is that once you remove govt stimulus the underlying growth is slower than people expect. Productivity growth, population growth, export growth combined aren't hitting the numbers people think the US needs, so they top up gdp growth with increased internal consumption by throwing borrowed money at the economy in handouts, infrastructure etc spending, or unaffordable tax cuts. Who gets the extra money depends on which process is used to distribute it, but it's all very short term as it requires ever increasing borrowing.

It's one story to spend like that in the short term to aid an economic recovery, but a different story when a govt does this just to try and maintain growth levels that aren't supported by the real fundamentals. It's lazy, and dangerous, governing, that will eventually cause economic failure.
Where in the hell do you get your information? Treasury shows the deficit and debt and your data is skewed due to Covid stimulus spending and entitlement spending increases. Obama debt was 9.3 trillion in 8 years. You going to tell us how Trump increased the debt by proposing a 1.47 trillion dollar discretionary budget and collecting over 2 trillion in FIT, CIT, and Excise taxes to fund that budget? Please learn the line items in the budget, what taxes you pay and their purpose.

The real message coming out of the comparison it lack of context in the data, It is stunning how poorly educated and informed Obama supporters are.
 
Let's see if I can get through to you, DON'T GIVE A DAMN what supposed Republicans did as IMO there is no justification for anything other than in person voting or official absentee ballots. My point stands, any supposed Republican that voted for Biden is no Republican or conservative. The issue is bigger than the Arizona audit, it is the entitlement mentality and hatred of far too many based upon ignorance that caused people to vote against Trump giving us Biden. If I hated Trump as much as you apparently do, there isn't a thing that would have kept me from the polls, would have bought a tent and slept there to be the first one in line to vote

wow.
Your line of "hating Trump" is over played.

Sorry, it is clear you are set in your ways and views. No one person or Party has all the answers.

This thread is about the AZ Senate briefing by Logan. My point about Arizona is proper for this thread. Your broad based comment is not.
 
wow.
Your line of "hating Trump" is over played.

Sorry, it is clear you are set in your ways and views. No one person or Party has all the answers.
What isn't clear as why any supposed Republican would ignore the results including their own and vote against Trump over Covid when Trump didn't have the authority you want to believe. Democrats weaponized Covid and that gave us Biden, the country now pays for it
 
What isn't clear as why any supposed Republican would ignore the results including their own and vote against Trump over Covid when Trump didn't have the authority you want to believe. Democrats weaponized Covid and that gave us Biden, the country now pays for it

Edited my post as you were replying. This thread is about the AZ briefing given by Logan and the AZ audit by Logan.

So I am done responding to non thread specific comments. If you want to discuss Logan and his preliminary findings then I would be more than happy to respond back.
 
Deficit in 2016 was $585B. In 2015 it was $438B. In 2019, precovid, it was $984B, and pre covid forecast for 2020 was closer to $1.1T with falling gdp growth.

$500B is sround 2.5% of gdp. Take that and inflation out of Trumps gdp growth numbers and what is left of his precovid economic growth?

I'm not promoting Obamas performance vs Trump etc, just pointing out that there are issues that free money and tax cuts won't fix.
 
Regardless, there is no excuse for failing to go to the polls and the chain of custody of mail in ballots remains a problem. You got what you wanted therefore nothing else matters, hope you are happy with someone else paying for your personal responsibility issues
Just wow.
 
Deficit in 2016 was $585B. In 2015 it was $438B. In 2019, precovid, it was $984B, and pre covid forecast for 2020 was closer to $1.1T with falling gdp growth.

$500B is sround 2.5% of gdp. Take that and inflation out of Trumps gdp growth numbers and what is left of his precovid economic growth?

I'm not promoting Obamas performance vs Trump etc, just pointing out that there are issues that free money and tax cuts won't fix.
Then post the line items and revenue numbers supporting your claim. Do you know what the debt service was in 2019 and why?
 
wow, just wow. Simple questions with such a verbose response.
I find it interesting that my fellow Republicans did a very good job in setting up mail in voting in Arizona and you are attacking them. I find it interesting that is was not till the results of the 2020 election that some started to complain about mail in voting.

It is well known your hatred for the left. It seems to spill over to Republicans who do not share your view on voting.

What Logan presented at the briefing was misleading, speculate and playing to the what if game.
- No evidence the voting system was hooked to the internet. Past technical audits proved that they were not connected.
- Misrepresenting data files V32 and V33.

At least Logan released who is really funding the Cyber Ninjas "audit". I am not surprised. Bet those big donors expect certain findings for their money.
It's one of the things that makes all of this a farce. That some of the GOP are eating their own makes it worse. Based on what we've seen it's the "you're either with us, or against us" tactic, and at least some have stood their ground in the face of baseless "what ifs". Stating something is susceptible to fraud is quite different than there actually being fraud.
 
wow.
Your line of "hating Trump" is over played.

Sorry, it is clear you are set in your ways and views. No one person or Party has all the answers.

This thread is about the AZ Senate briefing by Logan. My point about Arizona is proper for this thread. Your broad based comment is not.
He com planes about the people who voted for Biden because they hated Trump but won't say a word about ( how Trump got elected ) all the people who " hated " Clinton and voted for Trump
He doesn't say a word about it
Have a nice night
 
As I have pointed out over and over again, I DO NOT SUPPORT ANYTHING OTHER THAN EARLY VOTING, OFFICIAL ABSENTEE BALLOTS, AND ELECTION Day. If you hated Trump so much spend the night at the polling stations be the first one in and cast your ballot. stop making excuses for staying home. No disgruntled Republicans would ever vote for Biden, they would have stayed home, There is no justification ever for anyone to vote for Biden and in particular a ticked with Harris on it.
I don't care what you think but if you read the stats you will see I am right.
I know it's difficult to accept republicans betrayed the cause but that's democracy.
Why would any voter who was disgruntled not vote for someone else?
You don't know what every republican was thinking. As it turned out, the silent majority you all thought would vote for trump didn't. They voted for Biden regardless of what you think.
You just don't get it son.
It's over and trump was executed by his own supporters. Get over it.
 
Loyalty to an ideology over hatred of a particular individual on the other side generates results you want to ignore. The only one duped here is you. Results matter to me, nothing is going to change the outcome of the election nor the disastrous results being generated by incompetents Biden/Harris
You seem to have missed the four-plus years when Trump was the minister of hate. What are the disasters that Biden has managed to accomplish in six plus months? Has he threatened to ban a religion and caused chaos at airports? Did he lie about his inaugural crowd? Has he called various ethnic groups names? Has he lied about black on white crime? Has he labeled any institutions as “enemies of the people,” a la Stalin. Has he lied about election results? Put up or shut up.
 
Your comment was I hated Democrats, that is a lie, the rest of your post is BS
So you can lie and say I voted based off of hate, but I'm not allowed to express that same sentiment in return for what reason? Either both of us lied or neither did.
 
Let's see if I can get through to you, DON'T GIVE A DAMN what supposed Republicans did as IMO there is no justification for anything other than in person voting or official absentee ballots. My point stands, any supposed Republican that voted for Biden is no Republican or conservative. The issue is bigger than the Arizona audit, it is the entitlement mentality and hatred of far too many based upon ignorance that caused people to vote against Trump giving us Biden. If I hated Trump as much as you apparently do, there isn't a thing that would have kept me from the polls, would have bought a tent and slept there to be the first one in line to vote
It doesn't matter what you opinion of others forms of voting is. You don't get to make that decision. Others know that you are complaining over something that you cannot prove is a significant issue, but simply helps Democrats beat Republicans because when more people vote, they usually vote for Democrats more often than not.
 
I don't have to show a thing to you to have an opinion based upon history, facts, logic, and common sense none of which many of today's Democrats have

I have voted for MORE Democrats than you Republican, that appears to be a fact. You cannot explain how today's Democratic Party represents the values of JFK, "Ask not what your country can do for you,........" You said I hated Democrats and that is false, Your entitlement mentality and passion for liberalism is what destroys democracies when there is no discipline, no personal responsibility and the kind of attitude you have multiplied into 81 million

The needle is stuck in your record again.
 
Where in the hell do you get your information? Treasury shows the deficit and debt and your data is skewed due to Covid stimulus spending and entitlement spending increases. Obama debt was 9.3 trillion in 8 years. You going to tell us how Trump increased the debt by proposing a 1.47 trillion dollar discretionary budget and collecting over 2 trillion in FIT, CIT, and Excise taxes to fund that budget? Please learn the line items in the budget, what taxes you pay and their purpose.

The real message coming out of the comparison it lack of context in the data, It is stunning how poorly educated and informed Obama supporters are.

Now it’s the rest of us wondering where you get your figures from.

Trump never proposed a budget during his entire reign. I have no idea where you got that nonsense about trump proposing a “discretionary budget”.

And Trump, Mnuchin and his cronies never even pretended to claim that the trump tax bill would pay for itself. Of course, it didn’t.
 
We’ve now been through the Clinton Administration, the Bush Administration, the Obama Administration and the Trump Administration. The first and third raised taxes and the others cut them.

Clinton ran four years of surpluses. Immediately after the Bush tax cuts went into effect, government revenue dropped. Excluding revenue drop during the years in Obama's first term due to the Great Recession, deficits fell by 75%. Trump's 2017 tax-cut resulted in ballooning the deficit. Therefore, the notion that tax cuts DO NOT reduced Federal revenues has no empirical support.

fredgraph.png


fredgraph.png


That bulge around 2006-2007, that was the housing bubble.

Federal Tax Receipts by Year:

2015: $3249.9 +7.7%
2016: $3268.0 +0.6%
2017: $3316.2 +1.5%
2018: $3329.9 +0.4%
2019: $3463.4. +4.0%

 
There was no repatriating more than $1 Trillion from off shore banks. It was an accounting fiction. U.S. corporations have large assets overseas. Some of these assets reflect past investments made for fundamental business reasons - e.g., auto plants built to serve foreign markets. But a lot of those overseas assets reflect tax avoidance strategies.

Here’s how that works: a U.S. company manipulates transactions with an overseas subsidiary in a low-tax jurisdiction like Ireland so as to make profits, wherever they’re actually earned, appear on the books of the subsidiary rather than the home company. For example, the company may pay inflated prices for components it buys from the subsidiary, or assign the subsidiary patents and licenses on which it pays large royalties. These shifted profits then show up in the data as investments abroad, even though they may not correspond to anything real, as is clearly the case for much foreign investment in Ireland.

Now, when the U.S. reduces its corporate tax rate, this reduces the incentive to engage in such schemes: corporations don’t have to go to Ireland to avoid taxes, they can do it right here in the U.S.A. So you would expect the tax cut to lead to repatriation of assets, and that’s indeed what happened. The Bureau of Economic Analysis, which produces our balance of payments statistics, had a very helpful box on the effects of the TCJA in its latest report on international transactions that included a striking chart on the impact on multinational corporations (Figure 2). Following the tax law’s enactment, U.S. firms had their subsidiaries pay the home company huge dividends; the counterpart of these dividends, on paper, was a sharp drop in investment overseas. Nothing in reality was changed.

Wages rose because a number of states raised their minimum wage.

Inflation has been ~2% annual for more than a decade.

You are simply wrong and apparently willfully so.

<snip>
BY BLOOMBERG
BLOOMBERG
DEC. 19, 2019 1:32 PM PT
Corporations have brought back more than $1 trillion of overseas profits to the U.S. since Congress overhauled the international tax system and prodded companies to repatriate offshore funds, a Thursday report showed.
<snip>

How many states raised their minimum wage to $25.00/hour?


Again, you are simply wrong.

The inflation rate that used to be hovering at or maybe a tad below the desired 2% level is now closer to 3.5 or 4.0.

Again, you are simply wrong.
 
I don't care what you think but if you read the stats you will see I am right.
I know it's difficult to accept republicans betrayed the cause but that's democracy.
Why would any voter who was disgruntled not vote for someone else?
You don't know what every republican was thinking. As it turned out, the silent majority you all thought would vote for trump didn't. They voted for Biden regardless of what you think.
You just don't get it son.
It's over and trump was executed by his own supporters. Get over it.
Of course you don't care about context as it doesn't matter as long as you get what you want, keep going through life that way. It is such a shame to see people like you claiming you support a Democracy without understanding what a democracy is and how fragile it really is. Your ideology is the problem not Trump or mine. Selfishness permeates throughout the Democratic Party as it is all about entitlements and what the gov't can do for you. Facts, data, logic, and common sense destroy your argument and for some unknown reason you believe everything the left tells you and then challenges everything the right tells you. There is no justification for the Arizona results, you know it and I know it.
 
You seem to have missed the four-plus years when Trump was the minister of hate. What are the disasters that Biden has managed to accomplish in six plus months? Has he threatened to ban a religion and caused chaos at airports? Did he lie about his inaugural crowd? Has he called various ethnic groups names? Has he lied about black on white crime? Has he labeled any institutions as “enemies of the people,” a la Stalin. Has he lied about election results? Put up or shut up.
You seem to have missed the day one attacks on Trump by the Democratic Party. Biden has managed to exceed my expectations of incompetence, our Border is a mess. You like far too many cannot give a valid reason for your support of mail in ballots ignoring the chain of custody issue and how susceptible they are to fraud. Arizona is the tip of the iceberg showing that hate sells, money and power create fraud and abuse.
 
So you can lie and say I voted based off of hate, but I'm not allowed to express that same sentiment in return for what reason? Either both of us lied or neither did.
You said I hated Democrats, that is a lie. Your entire argument about mail in ballots is nothing but promoting selfishness and those lies
 
Now it’s the rest of us wondering where you get your figures from.

Trump never proposed a budget during his entire reign. I have no idea where you got that nonsense about trump proposing a “discretionary budget”.

And Trump, Mnuchin and his cronies never even pretended to claim that the trump tax bill would pay for itself. Of course, it didn’t.
Does it really matter what the actual data shows, bea.gov, bls.gov are the official sites with bea.gov posting Treasury data. As for not proposing a budget, where do you get your information?


 
The 2016 economy was flattening.
False. A collapse in oil prices didn't result in the fabled supply-side stimulation of consumption.
The Obama Recovery did not start until the recession had ended in June 2009. Following that, the economy did not get back to pre-recession levels until 2013.
A return to pre-recession levels following a once in a century financial crisis won't happen overnight. It took time for the deleveraging to work is way through and out.
The Great Recession was the result of every relaxation of the Post Depression Banking rules since 1932. The last major blow to these was signed by Clinton completely ending the Glass-Steagall legislation of the 30's.
Failure... no... refusal to regulate over-the-counter derivates allowed the GR to materialize.
The Tax program from Trump did a variety of things including repatriating more than $1 Trillion from off shore banks.
Did it lead to job growth? Investment growth? Did What was Revenue growth following tax cuts? In reality, the tax cuts failed by every measure. Persistent deficit growth paired with a continued decline in unemployment was a recipe for disaster.
My taxes were reduced by 20% year over year.
Nobody cares
Median household Income, employment by all demographics, wages and inflation were all doing very well. Not so much anymore.
It was as continuation of av trend that began long ago.
 
Facts, data, logic, and common sense destroy your argument and for some unknown reason you believe everything the left tells you and then challenges everything the right tells you. There is no justification for the Arizona results, you know it and I know it.
Sir, you believe EVERYTHING TRUMP TELLS YOU! How sad and bizarre is that? You believe that Trump never lied! See my signature quote you donated to my page below last year.
 
You like far too many cannot give a valid reason for your support of mail in ballots ignoring the chain of custody issue and how susceptible they are to fraud. Arizona is the tip of the iceberg showing that hate sells, money and power create fraud and abuse.
The Brooklyn Bridge is for sale to Republicans only! What court ANYWHERE in the US would take your argument and not laugh you out of their courtroom? You literally have ZERO proof of any fraud, none, nada, nothing, ZERO yet you post 50 times a day that AZ was rife with mail-in ballot fraud and in your mind you believe it actually happened despite having no proof. Instead, you write over and over again that "YOU KNOW" that there was fraud.

Conceptually believing that tens of thousands of ballots were altered, duplicated, sent from dead people etc. proves one thing. You know what that is? That you, Conservative are so gullible that you believe insane conspiracy theories that are believed by people who were duped by Trump. That's your side...
 
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