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[W:236] Name them and shame them or let them do their jobs?

trixare4kids

trixare4kids

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Who agrees? Who disagrees and give your reasons why.

Said by the eleven Republican Senate members,
"Congress should immediately appoint an Electoral Commission, with full investigatory and fact-finding authority, to conduct an emergency 10-day audit of the election returns in the disputed states," they said. "Once completed, individual states would evaluate the Commission’s findings and could convene a special legislative session to certify a change in their vote, if needed.

"Accordingly, we intend to vote on Jan. 6 to reject the electors from disputed states as not 'regularly given' and 'lawfully certified' ... unless and until that emergency 10-day audit is completed," they added. The senators didn't say in their joint statement if they plan to object to the results from specific states, how they would divvy up those objections or if they would just vote in support of challenges to the Electoral College results if they reach the Senate.
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11 Senate Republicans say they will oppose Electoral College results Wednesday

Eric Swalwell tweeted this morning a scathing rebuke of senate Republicans.
Name & shame these enemies of democracy: Ted Cruz (TX) Ron Johnson (WI) James Lankford (OK) Steve Daines (MT) John Kennedy (LA) Marsha Blackburn (TN) Mike Braun (IN) Cynthia Lummis (WY) Roger Marshall (KS) Bill Hagerty (TN) Tommy Tuberville (AL)
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Ironically, Eric Swalwell, of all people, says the above eleven should be named and shamed because they are the enemies of democracy.
Now that's some crazy stuff coming from him of all people. So should we name them and shame them or sit back, let the process unfold, and let them do their jobs?

Eric Swalwell on Twitter: "Name & shame these enemies of democracy: Ted Cruz (TX) Ron Johnson (WI) James Lankford (OK) Steve Daines (MT) John Kennedy (LA) Marsha Blackburn (TN) Mike Braun (IN) Cynthia Lummis (WY) Roger Marshall (KS) Bill Hagerty (TN) Tommy Tuberville (AL)" / Twitter
 
trixare4kids said:
Projection. ^

So you don't want them to do their jobs then?
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If wasting time and putting on a dog and pony show for Trump supporters is their job, sure, go right ahead... There are not enough votes in the senate OR the house to reject any states electoral votes... If these senators want to waste their time and look like fools, go right ahead...
 
Why is Josh Harley not on the list?
 
ElChupacabra said:
I think the senators are within their rights to challenge the results. Whether it's a politically savvy move given the consistent defeat of the election fraud narrative across multiple theaters is another thing.
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And I think every one of them ought to be stripped of their committee assignments in retribution for this nonsense. Mitch McConnell has that power. He ought to exercise it.
 
BlueTex said:
If wasting time and putting on a dog and pony show for Trump supporters is their job, sure, go right ahead... There are not enough votes in the senate OR the house to reject any states electoral votes... If these senators want to waste their time and look like fools, go right ahead...
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But when the congressional Democrats made up conspiracies and displayed ongoing daily theater to thwart Trump's presidential agenda, even going so far as to buy into and spread the collusion-Putin-delusion, that wasn't a wasted dog and pony show? Some think they wasted their time and made themselves look like fools...
 
trixare4kids said:
But when the congressional Democrats made up conspiracies and displayed ongoing daily theater to thwart Trump's presidential agenda, even going so far as to buy into and spread the collusion-Putin-delusion, that wasn't a wasted dog and pony show? Some think they wasted their time and made themselves look like fools...
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Meh... On Jan 20th Biden will be sworn in as president...
 
trixare4kids said:
Who agrees? Who disagrees and give your reasons why.

Said by the eleven Republican Senate members,


11 Senate Republicans say they will oppose Electoral College results Wednesday

Eric Swalwell tweeted this morning a scathing rebuke of senate Republicans.


Ironically, Eric Swalwell, of all people, says the above eleven should be named and shamed because they are the enemies of democracy.
Now that's some crazy stuff coming from him of all people. So should we name them and shame them or sit back, let the process unfold, and let them do their jobs?

Eric Swalwell on Twitter: "Name & shame these enemies of democracy: Ted Cruz (TX) Ron Johnson (WI) James Lankford (OK) Steve Daines (MT) John Kennedy (LA) Marsha Blackburn (TN) Mike Braun (IN) Cynthia Lummis (WY) Roger Marshall (KS) Bill Hagerty (TN) Tommy Tuberville (AL)" / Twitter
Click to expand...

Why is it an either/or proposition. Why not both?

I'm not opposed to a commission, but I don't think it would change much. Both parties are more than willing to use it to change rules in their own favor i can tell you for sure that it won't change the results in the next 2 weeks .
 
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trixare4kids said:
Who agrees? Who disagrees and give your reasons why.
Click to expand...

Author Timothy Snyder had some great points this morning.



"Cruz et al do not allege fraud, they allege allegations of fraud. When there are false allegations of fraud, a serious public servant tells the truth. Elections are about turning beliefs into facts, convictions into ballots. Retroactively turning those ballots back into beliefs, the beliefs of one man, is how you get authoritarianism. A faith-based challenge to a democratic election amounts to an attempt to undo democracy itself. Democracy depends upon facts, and upon creating them and sharing them. Modern tyranny arrives when we accept that the beliefs of the leader matter more than the actions of the people. Post-truth is pre-fascism. Politicians who deny the validity of ballots are responsible when their followers use bullets. Cruz and Hawley are trying to set a precedent for 2024: lose, lie, get appointed by Congress."

Eric Swalwell tweeted this morning a scathing rebuke of senate Republicans. Ironically, Eric Swalwell, of all people, says the above eleven should be named and shamed because they are the enemies of democracy. Now that's some crazy stuff coming from him of all people. So should we name them and shame them or sit back, let the process unfold, and let them do their jobs?
Click to expand...

I agree with Swalwell's strategy. And I extend this strategy to include posters on this forum who support such strategies and also people like you who are willing to turn a blind eye to what has become overt authoritarianism/fascism. I consider the refusal of Republicans, conservatives, and Trump supporters to condemn such actions to be an example of abject cowardice.

Republicans, conservatives, and Trump supporters have the right to participate in our political system. They do not have the right to destroy our Republic. And that is what this is leading to. The people employing such strategies and suggesting such unconstitutional measures such as having Pence somehow invalidate the election have no place in our political system. They are engaging in sedition and should be punished using every legal and political option at each and every turn.

It's over. Biden won. There is no credible, persuasive evidence of widespread voter fraud. Trump and his enablers and the swindlers promoting the allegations have been completely unable to prove their allegations, being laughed out of court at each and every turn. Knock off the nonsense. You are helping conspiracy theorists destroy our country. It's not okay.
 
It's happening whether we agree or not, but they better have something good (and new), because "we say so" hasn't worked.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
Author Timothy Snyder had some great points this morning.



"Cruz et al do not allege fraud, they allege allegations of fraud. When there are false allegations of fraud, a serious public servant tells the truth. Elections are about turning beliefs into facts, convictions into ballots. Retroactively turning those ballots back into beliefs, the beliefs of one man, is how you get authoritarianism. A faith-based challenge to a democratic election amounts to an attempt to undo democracy itself. Democracy depends upon facts, and upon creating them and sharing them. Modern tyranny arrives when we accept that the beliefs of the leader matter more than the actions of the people. Post-truth is pre-fascism. Politicians who deny the validity of ballots are responsible when their followers use bullets. Cruz and Hawley are trying to set a precedent for 2024: lose, lie, get appointed by Congress."



I agree with Swalwell's strategy. And I extend this strategy to include posters on this forum who support such strategies and also people like you who are willing to turn a blind eye to what has become overt authoritarianism/fascism. I consider the refusal of Republicans, conservatives, and Trump supporters to condemn such actions to be an example of abject cowardice.

Republicans, conservatives, and Trump supporters have the right to participate in our political system. They do not have the right to destroy our Republic. And that is what this is leading to. The people employing such strategies and suggesting such unconstitutional measures such as having Pence somehow invalidate the election have no place in our political system. They are engaging in sedition and should be punished using every legal and political option at each and every turn.

It's over. Biden won. There is no credible, persuasive evidence of widespread voter fraud. Knock off the nonsense. You are helping conspiracy theorists destroy our country. It's not okay.
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You opinion is noted. Please don't lie about me. You must know I have mentioned to you many times that I believe Biden to be the elected president. I am not going to keep mentioning this to you... Stop lying.

I find no harm though in the R. senators doing their jobs. Ted Cruz and the ten others have not said they want to overturn the results of the election. So let's stop that lie. They said they want a 10 day investigation & transparency to ensure election integrity. Why is that seditious? What's the harm? Why should they be punished?
 
trixare4kids said:
You opinion is noted. Please don't lie about me. You must know I have mentioned to you many times that I believe Biden to be the elected president. I am not going to keep mentioning this to you... Stop lying.

I find no harm though in the R. senators doing their jobs. Ted Cruz and the ten others have not said they want to overturn the results of the election. So let's stop that lie. They said they want a 10 day investigation & transparency. Why is that seditious? What's the harm? Why should they be punished?
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It's a violation of federal law as currently written and would require new legislation. Federal law is very specific on when and how the electoral votes are counted.
 
element94 said:
It's happening whether we agree or not, but they better have something good (and new), because "we say so" hasn't worked.
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You don't appear to understand what the eleven Republican senators will be proposing to be done on Jan 6th.
 
trixare4kids said:
But when the congressional Democrats made up conspiracies and displayed ongoing daily theater to thwart Trump's presidential agenda, even going so far as to buy into and spread the collusion-Putin-delusion, that wasn't a wasted dog and pony show? Some think they wasted their time and made themselves look like fools...
Click to expand...
B-bu-but but democrats! LOL!

You realize you're arguing that republicans should follow the example of the democrats and make themselves look like fools as well?

Awesome!
 
trixare4kids said:
You opinion is noted. Please don't lie about me. You must know I have mentioned to you many times that I believe Biden to be the elected president. I am not going to keep mentioning this to you... Stop lying.

I find no harm though in the R. senators doing their jobs. Ted Cruz and the ten others have not said they want to overturn the results of the election. So let's stop that lie. They said they want a 10 day investigation & transparency to ensure election integrity. Why is that seditious? What's the harm? Why should they be punished?
Click to expand...
What, specifically, are you calling a lie here?
 
Stealers Wheel said:
And I think every one of them ought to be stripped of their committee assignments in retribution for this nonsense. Mitch McConnell has that power. He ought to exercise it.
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I'm not sure if that's the best way to handle dissent in this particular case though, since it's likely the failure of the challenge in the face of all the failed lawsuits and findings from government agencies will be hard to overcome in terms of debate. A final failure may prove to be useful in quelling the doubts from some of the naysayers. I'm more of the mindset that you allow people enough rope to hang themselves. This way we don't penalize dissent across the board and let public defeat be the deterrent for these kind of protestations.
 
trixare4kids said:
You don't appear to understand what the eleven Republican senators will be proposing to be done on Jan 6th.
Click to expand...

Cruz can propose whatever bullshit he wants... There is NO legal basis to deviate from the Electoral Count Act which is federal law.. Delaying the count or adding new steps would require new legislation to be passed... Not going to happen...
 
trixare4kids said:
Projection. ^

So you don't want them to do their jobs then and are quite OK with Swalwell's hypocrisy?
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There is no basis in fact for their opposition and their grandstanding is coming at the real cost of further dividing the country. They’re elected officials and as such have no right to be shielded from public criticism for their atrocious behavior.
 
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