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[W:#23,579]Ukraine War Thread

Chomsky said:
Could the subtitles be accurate?

Quite chilling, if so.

Not exactly a morale booster, is it?
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i will try to find, but this is a typical story, Wagner ex- prisoners have introduced the GULAG culture in putin´s army , which always have been there but GRU - Wagner bring it to a whole new level , I am 100% sure they **** , literally the solders as punishment as well


 
justoneman said:
Sorry its not a tweet which is the typical Ukrainian aproveded media type.
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Quote me posting a tweet on any subject.

In any case, your claims are not being taken seriously.
 
maxparrish said:
Perhaps if the country had the spirit of Calvinists or Lutherans, and not Russian Eastern Orthodox, they would have developed a civic and humanitarian consciousness, but for a country where serfdom was still legal for half the 19th century, what can one expect?

A nation founded on victimization, fear of neighbors, and low self esteem is not likely to ever develop enlightenment values. And if this nation rules over many nationalities desiring to pursue their own destiny, then the chance for enlightenment is even less.
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It is actually about breaking a power monopoly, and philosophical monopoly. Martin Luther was the first who got away with it.
Once that monopoly was broken it opened the flood gates for social thought, and philosophies. It helped greatly to spread those ideas that Gutenberg had invented his printing press. Suddenly there mass printed pamphlets, even version of news papers. It all helped to spread new ideas.
The Catholic Church had lost its monolith and dogmatic power grip of how and what people were allowed to think.
The more liberal reformation churches of central Europe created the hot bed for a social revolution.

If you are interested take a look at the post Napoleon Germany and why Bismarck introduced those huge social reforms. It was the pressure of the people.

Nothing like that ever happened in Russia.
 
Chomsky said:
Essentially - you have a more archaic society attempting to wage war against more modern societies, with predictable results.
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The difference, in our society free speech and thought allows to approach a problem or subject from many different sides and produces many different working solutions.
In a monolitic system, Russia for example, there is just one preset working solution, dictated by the leadership.
Take NATO armies, they set goals and allow different approaches to reach the goal, or the taking of opportunities.
Russian Army, its about an order, and doing it in a prescript way.
That leaves the most important source humans have out, which is our ingenuity.
 
JacksinPA said:
To have contact with the, you exchange signal reports after you exchange callsigns.
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I have worked stations as far away as Hawaii, Christmas Island, Angola, Oman, Indonesia & Australia.
 
Sword 1944 said:
Try this for size,it ended with the Odessa massacre when Bandera Nazis burned and beat people to death in the Odessa trade Union building,because they were against the illegal coup.
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Yes, I know the standard propaganda mud gunning lies by Russia's shills, hoping to see some part of "the storyline" stick.

Not that you want to know or honor the truth, the rest of folks of character do care about such things. So here is the real story, in summary ...

Odessa, unlike the Donbas, is a cosmopolitan, liberal, and business oriented city. In spite of the fact that fewer "political tourists" were bussed from the Donbas into the city to stir up separatism, Russia still attempted to create another fake republic, in this case the Odesa People's Republic (ONR). This isn't a matter of serious dispute, the Glazyev tape recordings and an investigation by Dumskaya TV journalists provided the evidence of Moscow’s ties to local Russian nationalists and their neo-Nazis who formed the Odesa Dryzhyna (a vigilante group) in late February 2014 and their relationship to the carnage began on 2 May with the shooting of pro-Ukrainian marchers.

Odesa Russian nationalists were promised intervention by Russia's ‘little green men’ by Glazyev (ONR leader) and Crimean Prime Minister Aksyonov if the state administration and Odesa oblast council denounced the government that had emerged from the Euromaidan Revolution, and then would declare that the ONR was Odessa's legit authority and call for Russian assistance. But, Moscow’s plans were thwarted by the Odesa oblast council who declined and voted to denounce Russian aggression and the mobilization of Ukrainian patriots.

And you ignored to mention that the "massacre" was largely or totally self inflicted blunders. Or are you unaware that the Council of Europe reported that four of the five fires in the Trade Union building were begun by Russian nationalists because ‘other than the fire in the lobby, the fires could only have been started by those inside the building.’ Or perhaps you forgot that the fire spread in the building after the barricade in the front entrance caught fire from an exchange of Molotov cocktails thrown by both sides?

Although the events and their chronology is too long and complex to present here, the bottom line is that Molotov cocktails begin to be thrown by both sides, the first from inside the building after which pro-Ukrainian activists reply with their own...

Should you want look at a documentary that is actually researched in depth, and find out what really happened



Unlike those by Russian fellow travelers, this one is seriously researched and fully documented...

Analysis: The film is an objective portrayal of the conflicts on 2 May 2014 in Odesa drawing upon interviews with 257 eyewitnesses (local activists on both sides of the clashes, journalists, veterans and militia), video evidence, fire engineering tests, inspections of the Trade Union building site and analysis of the criminal case files with the events chronologically detailed. Key people who were interviewed included the head of Odesa Samoborona Vitaliy Svychinskiy, deputy head of Odesa Samoborona Vitaliy Kozhuhar, (pro-Russian) Odesa Squad leader Serhiy Rudych, Captain of Samoborona Vitaliy Ustymenko, First Commander of the Kulikova tent camp Serhiy Dmytriev, anti-Maidan activists Oleksandr Herasymov and Artem Davydchenko, deputy head of the Odesa oblast council and leader of the Odesa branch of the Party of Regions Vyacheslav Markin. Source: Yelyzaveta Tatarynova (Author) and Serhiy Polishchuk (Film Editor), Odesa. May 2 – What Really Happened?

Kuzio, Taras. Putin's War Against Ukraine: Revolution, Nationalism, and Crime (pp. 337-338). Taras Kuzio. Kindle Edition.
 
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justoneman said:
I think they are taking their time setting up defensive positions.
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If that's what helps you sleep better at night...

At Avdiivka & Vuhledar, Russian assets have taken beatings mostly due to mines.
 
Luce said:
But no actual evidence is given in that link. Just the fact that Russia made accusations. Stop the presses.
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And it ignores the reality presented in the article:

'Urs Schwinger believes that to be the case too. The German runs his own IT company in Odessa. "I was at the train station that morning and was totally shocked: people were coming out with guns," he says. The 49-year-old adds that they were wearing orange and black ribbons - a symbol of the pro-Russian activists. Schwinger followed the street fighting taking place in the city center at home on the television. One wanted to create a situation similar to Donetsk in Odessa: "I think they lost control of it, but it started with a pro-Russian provocation." "
....
"Charges have been brought against a total of 22 people, half of them are in investigative custody. Another 13 suspects are on the run, among them a police chief and some of the leaders of the pro-Russian movement. There was previously speculation that Russian intelligence services had played a role in Odessa. There was no word of this in the attorney generalship's statement."

Kinda skipped over that part, like the invasion of Crimea.
 
maxparrish said:
Yes, I know the standard propaganda mud gunning lies by Russia's shills, hoping to see some part of "the storyline" stick.

Not that you want to know or honor the truth, the rest of folks of character do care about such things. So here is the real story, in summary ...

Odessa, unlike the Donbas, is a cosmopolitan, liberal, and business oriented city. In spite of the fact that fewer "political tourists" were bussed from the Donbas into the city to stir up separatism, Russia still attempted to create another fake republic, in this case the Odesa People's Republic (ONR). This isn't a matter of serious dispute, the Glazyev tape recordings and an investigation by Dumskaya TV journalists provided the evidence of Moscow’s ties to local Russian nationalists and their neo-Nazis who formed the Odesa Dryzhyna (a vigilante group) in late February 2014 and their relationship to the carnage began on 2 May with the shooting of pro-Ukrainian marchers.

Odesa Russian nationalists were promised intervention by Russia's ‘little green men’ by Glazyev (ONR leader) and Crimean Prime Minister Aksyonov if the state administration and Odesa oblast council denounced the government that had emerged from the Euromaidan Revolution, and then would declare that the ONR was Odessa's legit authority and call for Russian assistance. But, Moscow’s plans were thwarted by the Odesa oblast council who declined and voted to denounce Russian aggression and the mobilization of Ukrainian patriots.

And you ignored to mention that the "massacre" was largely or totally self inflicted blunders. Or are you unaware that the Council of Europe reported that four of the five fires in the Trade Union building were begun by Russian nationalists because ‘other than the fire in the lobby, the fires could only have been started by those inside the building.’ Or perhaps you forgot that the fire spread in the building after the barricade in the front entrance caught fire from an exchange of Molotov cocktails thrown by both sides?

Although the events and their chronology is too long and complex to present here, the bottom line is that Molotov cocktails begin to be thrown by both sides, the first from inside the building after which pro-Ukrainian activists reply with their own...

Should you want look at a documentary that is actually researched in depth, and find out what really happened



Unlike those by Russian fellow travelers, this one is seriously researched and fully documented...

Analysis: The film is an objective portrayal of the conflicts on 2 May 2014 in Odesa drawing upon interviews with 257 eyewitnesses (local activists on both sides of the clashes, journalists, veterans and militia), video evidence, fire engineering tests, inspections of the Trade Union building site and analysis of the criminal case files with the events chronologically detailed. Key people who were interviewed included the head of Odesa Samoborona Vitaliy Svychinskiy, deputy head of Odesa Samoborona Vitaliy Kozhuhar, (pro-Russian) Odesa Squad leader Serhiy Rudych, Captain of Samoborona Vitaliy Ustymenko, First Commander of the Kulikova tent camp Serhiy Dmytriev, anti-Maidan activists Oleksandr Herasymov and Artem Davydchenko, deputy head of the Odesa oblast council and leader of the Odesa branch of the Party of Regions Vyacheslav Markin. Source: Yelyzaveta Tatarynova (Author) and Serhiy Polishchuk (Film Editor), Odesa. May 2 – What Really Happened?

Kuzio, Taras. Putin's War Against Ukraine: Revolution, Nationalism, and Crime (pp. 337-338). Taras Kuzio. Kindle Edition.
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Yes they burned and beat themselves to death,behave yourself.
 
Sword 1944 said:
Of course it was real same as that massacre in Odessa,thats my point,and the people you support now in Ukraine celebrate the Ukrainians who took part in the holocaust.
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How old are those you say took part in the Holocaust? And they were just looking for any help against Russia who had just starved millions of Ukrainians to death in the Holodomor.
 
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