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[W:#23,579]Ukraine War Thread

take it up with Amnesty

sheltering in civilian populations during a war of airstrikes and artillery is calling down strikes on your troops knowing they are using civilians in an attempt to place troops for operational use is a deliberate crime

I dont follow all the daily grind. I did see something about Kyiv hitting a POW camp which of course you denied and spun

In your mind Ukraine can do anything and Russia cant do anything; well that's not how it works
On Bucha the clothes arent dirty, you cant see faces and bodies are always buried quickly bodies shown in some footage did not show characteristic signs of degradation that would be expected after a number of days.

But my point stands. we want this war to degrade Russia, we made zero attempts to prevent it and over the years changed Ukraine (Kyiv faction) from neutral to pro-west
Amnesty has lost senior people who were against the report. AI ****ed up
 
Britain sent an ultimatum to Germany to cease hostilities or a state of war would exist between Great Britain and Germany. Germany declined to reply and the war with Britain started. France did the same declaring war a few hours after Britain. If it was immediate Britain would have instantly been at war once the invasion began, hence my comment that it want quite immediately.
Oh brother. Declaring war within a couple of days is imediately. The whole point of all of this was to suggest the world did not know a big war was breaking out in Europe when Germany invaded Poland. Obviously it did since war was declared right away by the two other major European powers.
 
take it up with Amnesty

sheltering in civilian populations during a war of airstrikes and artillery is calling down strikes on your troops knowing they are using civilians in an attempt to place troops for operational use is a deliberate crime

1. I don't think you quite understand yet that the Russians are going to attempt to bomb and destroy every building in Ukraine whether there are Ukrainian soldiers in it or not. If you're looking for a crime, that's the crime, right there. But when it comes to all the horrible crimes the Russians have committed you have had nothing to say. But you jump on this?

2. The Ukrainians are repurposing civilian buildings, but they are also evacuating the civilians from those areas. A good example is the recent evacuation of Donbas. Yet, when Zelensky ordered the evacuation of Donbas all the pro-Russians in this thread mocked the Ukrainians for doing this. Well, what do you want? Do you want the civilians to stay or leave? Also, the Ukrainian troops must often be in the same cities that civilians reside within because the Russians are invading those same Ukrainian cities. Are the Ukrainian forces supposed to abandon the cities and let the civilians be raped and murdered similar to what happened in Bucha? Also, suddenly, all the pro-Russians in this thread have adopted this idea that the Ukrainians cannot be in the cities, and they must remain in an open field so the Russians can more easily bomb them. That's suicidal. Why would the Ukrainian forces do that? It seems to me the pro-Russians in this thread are only going to be happy when the Ukrainians surrender. Well, apparently, the Ukrainians are not going to do that. So maybe should switch to demanding the Russia leaves instead of attacking Ukraine for defending itself?

calling down strikes on your troops knowing they are using civilians in an attempt to place troops for operational use is a deliberate crime

That's not what is happening. The Ukrainian forces are not trying to shield soldiers by hiding them amongst the civilians. There just aren't that many places to put the soldiers, and no, they're not going to put them in an open field, as much as you would like that. You are inventing -- in your own mind -- some sort of evil intent on part of the Ukrainian forces to hide amongst the civilians. That's ludicrous. And it's a great indication of where your sympathies lie. You favor the Russians. You want them to win.
 
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@justoneman wrote:
"Oh brother. Declaring war within a couple of days is imediately. The whole point of all of this was to suggest the world did not know a big war was breaking out in Europe when Germany invaded Poland. Obviously it did since war was declared right away by the two other major European powers."

In those day it was. Declarations of war were formal and involved things like (in the US) a President bringing a Declaration of War to the Congress. If a country was invaded (as the US was at Pearl Harbor) it sped things up, but I will have to look up how long it took the US to declare war on Japan after the strike. It may not have been a matter of seconds.
 
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Juin said:
There you are! That much vaunted ISW- Instute for the Study of War- may have to eat some crow. Just July 31st, a few days ago, they posted an expert opinion that Russia had little chance of taking Bakhmut. Now the Wagner Ochestra is performing in Patrice Lumumba St in Bakhmut. Good thing someone remembered that ISW expert opinion.


Good lord, have you'all no shame? We just went through this kind of thinly veiled and mendacious cheerleading with Sivirsk, then Pinsky (which remains in Ukrainian control), now this?



Oh stop with the theatrics. LOL

Let me remind you, you are not in Siversk, nor in Pinsky. Like everyone else on DP you rely on sources. And in the specific case of Pinsky, how do you know it is in Ukrainian hands? Are you there? You cannot tell one way or the other. Like everyone else you can only take it on faith. But you are wrong. Pinsky is in Russian hands. If you wanna believe otherwise, fine.






The map produced, by a willing Russian transmission belt, is the usual unreliable information produced from "news" by other Russian cheerleaders. It and your other source(s) don't even pretend to have a methodology, let alone retain a respect for the slightest objective professionalism.


ISW opined that there was no chance Russia takes Bakhmut. And there is a long list of other wishful claims on their part. That is what their operandiis all about: propagandising for Ukraine. I wanna see them eat crow


You see, the Russian MOD hasn't claimed any territorial gains for the simple reason is that they rely on folks like DNR officials and sympathetic bloggers push a positive messaging, because no one holds them accountable when they exaggerate claims and push narratives that are, shall we say, dubious?


LOL Maybe the Russians also fabricated Ghost of Kyiv. :)


By the way, "they are in the outskirts" of Bakmut has about the same credibility as they are in the outskirts of Pisky or, in WW2, Moscow. Until its confirmed by independent journalists then I'd suggest you show more circumspection...or be the one risking the embarrassment.


You are welcome to deny that Orc canons are at the gates of Bakhmut. The Orc Army doesnt take its marching orders from you.

BTW why dont you bother with the much announced Kherson counter offensive? You have a million man army ready to assault Kherson, right?
 
Wikipedia says that Japan declared war on the US and the British Empire after the attack on Pearl Harbor, on December 7, 1941. "The United Kingdom declared war on Japan nine hours before the U.S. did, partially due to Japanese attacks on the British colonies of Malaya, Singapore, and Hong Kong; and partially due to Winston Churchill's promise to declare war 'within the hour' of a Japanese attack on the United States. President Roosevelt formally requested the declaration in his Infamy Speech, addressed to a joint session of Congress and the nation at 12:30 p.m. on December 8. The declaration was quickly brought to a vote; it passed the Senate, and then passed the House at 1:10 p.m. The vote was 82–0 in the Senate and 388–1 in the House. Roosevelt signed the declaration at 4:10 p.m the same day."
 
you are a broken record. I was responding the the Amnesty findings


I notice that the pro Kyiv crowd appears to not like anything that may disturb that image of an angelic Ukraine at the mercy of demoic Russians. :)
 
Putin needs now the priority to expand creeping beyond the borders of the Donetsk and Luhansk by capturing Kherson, Kharkiv, and Zaporizhzhia regions. Lavrov just the other day said Western military equipment transfer and the supposed need to protect the occupied territories from long-range weapons as main reasons for this shift.

What and Why?


Reported maliciously in Deutsch Welle which is the long time brethren with Tass and more recently RT is the obviously false Kremlin claim that four HIMARS have been destroyed. These claims were later refuted by Gen. Mark Milley himself, chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Milley said Russia had yet to destroy any of the HIMARS now situated in Ukraine. Yet and according to Ukrainian intelligence groups of Russian special forces have been deployed to Ukraine to focus specifically on a wild goose chase hunt for the highly mobile and precisely lethal HIMARS. Russian artillery and radars can't find 'em while Russian AF can't locate 'em either. Plus the HIMARS are out of Russian range which is the major reason Russia needs Kherson, Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhia, ie, to get within range of HIMARS or to push HIMARS out of range of Russian artillery positions, ammo depots, fuel depots, significant railways etc. So Kremlin has a lot of butt hurt going on right now.

Late on the same day July 28th Deutsche Welle also rushed to report that according to Justin Kramp, a military expert and head of strategic advisory firm Sibylline and that despite their early success, HIMARS are not a “silver bullet” that alone will turn the tide of the war (which while true, is good news for the bad guys that Deutsche Welle was eager to report).

Further, the Russia Hugging German journal Bild was quick to relay a Kremlin propaganda campaign purposed to undermine weapon supplies from Western countries. Fact is and as stated by the Russia expert "The Kremlin needs to limit the supply of US and NATO high tech weapons by feigning threats of escalation. This disinformation activity involves politicians, experts, media personalities and organizations from various regions. They specifically push publication and analysis that claim arming Ukraine will pose a major danger for the whole of Europe (Bild, July 29). Such efforts originate mostly in Germany and France and are most likely being directly orchestrated from Moscow, or at the very least, have some link to Russian authorities." Alas, it's the two long time usual culprits, Germany and France that no longer now can run to Putin to give him what he demands.

Russia expert Yuri Lapaiev at the Jamestown Foundation that specializes in Russia since the Cold War says the first Gepard anti-aircraft self-propelled artillery units recently arrived in Ukraine. Lapaiev says that In truth, air defense is crucial not only for future counteroffensives but also for protecting civilians, as 70 percent of Russian airstrikes have hit civilian objects. The Guided MLRS (GMLRS) munition with 85-kilometer range currently used by the UAF is not enough to smash all Russian military targets on the MoD list. So Lapaiev says Kyiv urgently needs ATACMS (Army Tactical Missile Systems) to liberate the southern region. He says It's safe to say sending ATACMS to Ukraine runs no immediate risk of escalation by Putin given the use already by the UAF use of its own Tochka-U short-range ballistic missiles and their 120 kilometer range.
 
Wars = war crimes committed by all - difference is when used as a deliberate part of strategy.
Makes it policy .
Yes UAF has committed war crimes- deliberate strategy - Nope
Russia Yes
@anatta you do see the difference?


The presence of the Nazist Azov Regiment in the Ukrainian Armed Forces argues against what you are asserting
 
Village of Dibrivne (Kharkiv Oblast) cleared of Russian garbage troops (it's near the border of Donetsk Oblast)

Japan to provide Ukraine with dozens of camera-equipped drones
 
While I appreciate your [ @JANFU ] thoughtful distinction; to be blunt - tell it to the dead. war is a crime against humanity. always was/always is.<<


Correct. Its a distinction without a difference.

And I see no evidence of how the determination was arrived at that one side or the other had war crimes as a policy or not. Russia was declared guilty by fiat, and Ukraine absolved.



“demonization of Vladimir Putin is not a policy; it is an alibi for the absence of one.” ( Kissinger)


Hear hear.
 
Reported maliciously in Deutsch Welle which is the long time brethren with Tass and more recently RT is the obviously false Kremlin claim that four HIMARS have been destroyed. These claims were later refuted by Gen. Mark Milley himself, chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Milley said Russia had yet to destroy any of the HIMARS now situated in Ukraine.


HIMARSes are indestructible?
 
Wikipedia says that Japan declared war on the US and the British Empire after the attack on Pearl Harbor, on December 7, 1941. "The United Kingdom declared war on Japan nine hours before the U.S. did, partially due to Japanese attacks on the British colonies of Malaya, Singapore, and Hong Kong; and partially due to Winston Churchill's promise to declare war 'within the hour' of a Japanese attack on the United States. President Roosevelt formally requested the declaration in his Infamy Speech, addressed to a joint session of Congress and the nation at 12:30 p.m. on December 8. The declaration was quickly brought to a vote; it passed the Senate, and then passed the House at 1:10 p.m. The vote was 82–0 in the Senate and 388–1 in the House. Roosevelt signed the declaration at 4:10 p.m the same day."
You post here has nothing to do with the claim that nobody knew the world war started when Germany invaded Poland. Obviously the UK and France and frankly the rest of the world knew it. Prior to invading Poland, Germany took land from France and Czechoslovakia and forced a union with Austria. This current war in Ukraine has nothing in common with WW2.
 
Putin needs now the priority to expand creeping beyond the borders of the Donetsk and Luhansk by capturing Kherson, Kharkiv, and Zaporizhzhia regions. Lavrov just the other day said Western military equipment transfer and the supposed need to protect the occupied territories from long-range weapons as main reasons for this shift.

What and Why?


Reported maliciously in Deutsch Welle which is the long time brethren with Tass and more recently RT is the obviously false Kremlin claim that four HIMARS have been destroyed. These claims were later refuted by Gen. Mark Milley himself, chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Milley said Russia had yet to destroy any of the HIMARS now situated in Ukraine. Yet and according to Ukrainian intelligence groups of Russian special forces have been deployed to Ukraine to focus specifically on a wild goose chase hunt for the highly mobile and precisely lethal HIMARS. Russian artillery and radars can't find 'em while Russian AF can't locate 'em either. Plus the HIMARS are out of Russian range which is the major reason Russia needs Kherson, Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhia, ie, to get within range of HIMARS or to push HIMARS out of range of Russian artillery positions, ammo depots, fuel depots, significant railways etc. So Kremlin has a lot of butt hurt going on right now.

Late on the same day July 28th Deutsche Welle also rushed to report that according to Justin Kramp, a military expert and head of strategic advisory firm Sibylline and that despite their early success, HIMARS are not a “silver bullet” that alone will turn the tide of the war (which while true, is good news for the bad guys that Deutsche Welle was eager to report).

Further, the Russia Hugging German journal Bild was quick to relay a Kremlin propaganda campaign purposed to undermine weapon supplies from Western countries. Fact is and as stated by the Russia expert "The Kremlin needs to limit the supply of US and NATO high tech weapons by feigning threats of escalation
Putin needs to capture Kherson?... What??????
 
The report from Amnesty is damaging for the Ukraine and warring parties are obliged to protect the civilian population under international law, no matter what.


It also damages your credibility and that of @W_Heisenberg , @Roadvirus , @maxparrish etc. You all took leave of your senses, and blinded by Russophobia adopted a line that brooked no other explanation for Russian collateral damages except war crimes. Every Russian soldier is a rapist. Every Russian soldier is a murderer. Every soldier of that tank formation at Kyiv a war criminal. You weaponised and amplified every charge.

Amnesty kind of complicates things for you.



But I agree with Dmytro Kuleba on that Amnesty is trying to create a "false balance" by publishing the allegations. There is in no way obvious that Ukraine has violated the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention says that the belligerent state must as far as possible protect the civilian population by not establishing military outposts among the civilian population. But it is not certain that any other location would have been possible for the Ukrainian forces.


You should not agree with Kuleba. This is what he said:

"But let's clearly agree on the understanding of simple things: this behavior by Amnesty International is not about finding and conveying the truth to the world, but about creating a false balance between the criminal and the victim, between the country that destroys hundreds and thousands of civilians, cities, entire territories, and the country that is desperately defending itself, saving its people and the continent from this onslaught," Kuleba said.

Juks, one may disagree with Amnesty on specific points, but to impute to them the motivation that they were not about finding and conveying truth- whether one agrees or not- is despicable.
 
The Ukraine has gone through great length to protect the civil population, sometimes at the expense of military opportunities and advantages. They have used a great amount of money received to protect and secure the civil populations wellbeing. Money that has not been earmarked and could have been used to buy weapons. The medical personal has entered warzones , unarmed and with great risks in order to treat and evacuate civilians.


I believe the civilians of separatist held Donetsk City will beg to differ. Ukrainian cannon on the outskirts have been trained on them since 2014. And in recent weeks the cannonade had risen to a crescendo, to the point where they had appealed to Kremlin to make pushing the cannon out of range a priority



So the organization took the only road they could and looked for military activity within civil areas, which off course is unavoidable if you are fighting intercity battles.


THIS IS IMPORTANT. And, unfortunately, is the horrible Logic of War. Assets that have to be militarily defended, more often than not, are also civilian areas. Maybe a city is on high ground, but the military almost always wants to take the high ground.



They been known to do just that in the past. It is al about money and I think they should be ashamed. Unfortunately, when the investigations can be made and when they will conclude that there was no choice or alternative location the report from Amnesty will avoid criticism due to being forgotten and Amnesty will have moved on to other specular statements and reports to generate money for the organization.
These people are fighting an existential fight for their freedom of choice .


You have given excellent reasons as to why Ukrainian soldiers may find themselves encamped in civilian areas. What you are not addressing is why that does not make such choices valid military targets? If that is where the Ukrainian soldiers chose to place themselves does that not also explain why Russian shells land there?
 
Today Erdogan is meeting Putin Sochi.


They say that they should talk further about the recently signed grain agreement. But there are also other issues that Erdogan wants to raise, among other things it is about Turkey wanting to do another military operation against the kurds that worked with US in northern Syria and for that they need Russia's approval. The energy issue may also possibly be discussed. Turkey is dependent on Russian natural gas and earlier this year there was supposed to be a stop in the supply. I am writing this because there is a wildcard that may come up. Russia may inquire for Turkish drones (rumours) .


In addition to that I am sure the Azeri/Armenian issue will be high on the agenda. The two men each will come to the table with much to batter. :)
 
Oh brother. Declaring war within a couple of days is imediately. The whole point of all of this was to suggest the world did not know a big war was breaking out in Europe when Germany invaded Poland. Obviously it did since war was declared right away by the two other major European powers.
You're finally making some sense, so congrats. Make enough vacuous posts and one will strike gold eh.

The period September 1939 when the Nazis conquered Poland to April 1940 when no serious fighting occurred was called the "Phony War."

The Phoney War​

In French drole de guerre
“Sitzkrieg”
in German

The Phoney War took place between September 1939 to April 1940 and was the English term used for the 6 months prior to the start of the war. This was following the Blitzkrieg attack on Poland which is claimed to have started World War 2. It was a conflict ultimately run by civil servants as opposed to the troops of Britain and France. The period was seen as a confusing one for those who lived in Britain as they expected a war at any time.

By the Spring of 1940 it is estimated that millions of people decided that the war wasn’t going to happen and they began walking the streets without gas masks. The fear of the impending war began to subside. This however was short lived when suddenly on 9th April 1940 the war began again. On 10 May 1940, eight months after Britain and France had declared war on Germany, German troops marched into Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg, marking the end of the Phoney War.



German General officer opinions about the Phoney War
“If we did not collapse already in the year 1939 that was due only to the fact that during the Polish campaign, the approximately 110 French and British divisions in the West were held completely inactive against the 23 German divisions.” – Alfred Jodl, German military commander, during the Nuremberg Trials. “If the French had attacked in force in September 1939 the German army could only have held out for one or two weeks.” – General Siegfried Westphal



April 9th 1940 Germany invaded Norway for its oil and stuff so the British sent troops they soon withdrew because the Germans outnumbered 'em -- by a lot. There were some Naval skirmishes too, to include a small battle with RN that the Kriegsmarine pulled out of before it was too late for 'em. Wehrmacht also invaded Denmark for its ports.

There's also this:

The invasion of Poland led half a dozen countries to declare war on Germany -- Australia, Canada, South Africa, and New Zealand were all too far away to have an immediate impact. Only Britain and France were in a position to have an impact on the fighting. Despite their previous reassurances they didn’t leap to defend Poland. They had no troops in the area at the time and hadn’t yet mustered the political will or military capacity to begin sending any. The Poles pleaded with the British to bomb German air bases, but the British refused. They feared that if they bombed the Germans before the Germans bombed them, they might alienate the Americans. Though they weren’t ready to bomb the Germans, the British government did send its planes. Over the course of September, British bombers dropped over 18 million propaganda leaflets across Germany, in what former army officer and Conservative MP Edward Spears mockingly labeled a “confetti war.”


I myself wouldn't say Ukraine today is Poland then but NATO seems to be thinking about upscaling its force strength and readiness. NATO air forces are already in the skies over member states bordering Russia, both intelligence and fighter aircraft 24/7. So neither is NATO Britain and France back then. Then again I wouldn't necessarily say Putin is Hitler but I wouldn't deny it either. All indications are not good though.
 
if you are going to base troops in civilian infrastructure, you are inviting attack. Ukraine doesn't get off because it does so any more then Russia does for shelling such areas.

Correct. I believe Amnesty's guilt here is that it points out that protecting civilians demands more than just demonising one side. Both sides share the responsibility


Or you can say this is a war/slog that has unavoidable "collateral damage" -but you cant give one side a pass and blame the other


Correct
 
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anatta said:
but you cant give one side a pass and blame the other


Yes, you can. Ukraine didn't invade Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine. What part of that don't you understand? And what part of "Ukraine has the right to defend itself", don't you understand?


NO one gets a pass for war crimes. Period.



This is like someone complaining about a victim trespassing on someone else's property while they are frantically running away from the scene of an attempted murder. This is "Heads I Win, Tails You Lose" bullshit. This is like the cops yelling, "Stop Resisting" while they are beating the shit out of a suspect.


No, it is more than trespassing. It is someone rushing into your house and then firing at assailants from inside your living room.


And where these civilian buildings? On the front line? Next to all the other civilian buildings Russia bombed to hell? Were any civilians there? When did these incidents take place? At the beginning of the war when Ukraine was trying to figure out how to defend itself from a much more powerful adversary?


The above is a bit incoherent :)
 
If the Russians are trying to take cities and villages by military means, you will find Ukrainian military in those villages and cities defending them by trying to keep the Russian military out. What is the alternative? There is absolutely nothing in the Geneva convention that suggest that you are not allowed to defend yourself from an invading power if you are a populated area.


In your narrative Ukrainians wanting to take cities is all absent. In 2014 it was ex Ukrainian President Poroshenko's panzers raining artillery shells in separatist held areas. Of course, I suppose they deserve it; they being those horrible Russians!

And let me ask you; since Ukraine has been repeating to whoever will listen her intent to take back Kherson, Crimea, Donbass, exactly how do you expect them to conduct that reconquista?


That is what Amnesty, and you are implying, and it is ludicrous.


The only thing ridiculous is your attempts at making Amnesty the villain instead of Ukraine the party placing civilians at risk
 
Putin needs to capture Kherson?... What??????
Alas a hurried slip up there amongst all the conflicting propaganda in this madcap IT war, thx. Putin needs to retain Kherson while taking cities and high ground further inland of Ukraine. He'll need Peter the Great to check out of his tomb to do that.


Desperate Putin eyes up Kherson strike in last-ditch aim to push back in Ukraine

The Russians' movements, which Kyiv described as a "massive redeployment", might be part of the Kremlin's efforts to defend its territorial gains against Ukraine's commitment to reclaiming occupied Kherson and areas around Zaporizhzhia. Ukraine has already recaptured more than 50 villages. As per the UK's Ministry of Defence, Russia is feeling threatened by Western-supplied weapons systems that are allowing Ukrainians to counterattack the Russian army more effectively.

 
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anatta said:
take it up with Amnesty

sheltering in civilian populations during a war of airstrikes and artillery is calling down strikes on your troops knowing they are using civilians in an attempt to place troops for operational use is a deliberate crime<<


1. I don't think you quite understand yet that the Russians are going to attempt to bomb and destroy every building in Ukraine whether there are Ukrainian soldiers in it or not. If you're looking for a crime, that's the crime, right there. But when it comes to all the horrible crimes the Russians have committed you have had nothing to say. But you jump on this?


Why should @anatta understand what makes no sense. Why should Russians destroy buildings in which there are no Ukrainian soldiers? You are just engaging in your now regular demonisation of Russia and Russians.


2. The Ukrainians are repurposing civilian buildings, but they are also evacuating the civilians from those areas. A good example is the recent evacuation of Donbas. Yet, when Zelensky ordered the evacuation of Donbas all the pro-Russians in this thread mocked the Ukrainians for doing this. Well, what do you want? Do you want the civilians to stay or leave? Also, the Ukrainian troops must often be in the same cities that civilians reside within because the Russians are invading those same Ukrainian cities. Are the Ukrainian forces supposed to abandon the cities and let the civilians be raped and murdered similar to what happened in Bucha? Also, suddenly, all the pro-Russians in this thread have adopted this idea that the Ukrainians cannot be in the cities, and they must remain in an open field so the Russians can more easily bomb them. That's suicidal. Why would the Ukrainian forces do that? It seems to me the pro-Russians in this thread are only going to be happy when the Ukrainians surrender. Well, apparently, the Ukrainians are not going to do that. So maybe should switch to demanding the Russia leaves instead of attacking Ukraine for defending itself?


Give it a rest. LOL Ukrainian artillery has been shelling the separatist held Donetsk City since 2014. Lately the hell rained down on them by Ukrainians was such that they made an appeal to the Kremlin to make pushing Ukrainians out of artillery range a priority. Which may explain the recent Russian assaults in Adviivka to the north east of Donetsk.



That's not what is happening. The Ukrainian forces are not trying to shield soldiers by hiding them amongst the civilians. There just aren't that many places to put the soldiers, and no, they're not going to put them in an open field, as much as you would like that. You are inventing -- in your own mind -- some sort of evil intent on part of the Ukrainian forces to hide amongst the civilians. That's ludicrous. And it's a great indication of where your sympathies lie. You favor the Russians. You want them to win.


You are not addressing your own ludicruous positions. If Ukrainians place their artillery among civilians where do you want the Russians to train their artillery?
 
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