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[W:2270] Does a Gun Make Your Home Safer?

CLAX1911

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Any link on safe storage for a gun from a credible source.
my storage system is safer than you can imagine.

A safe practice would be doing something to make things less dangerous. Putting a seatbelt on in a moving car is a safe practice for the purpose of making it less dangerous if there is an accident.
And what function is being taken away?
right so I put on a safety belt when I operate a car when I park it I don't take the wheels off of it before I walk away from it.


A fun fact for you. I started on this thread with someone who had pointed out that quick access safety boxes means he can keep his gun safe in a locked box and have quick access.
there's no need my guns perfectly safe sitting on the nightstand they don't jump up and fly around and shoot people of their own accord.

And your still using a goofy combination or key to keep your musket safe.
I don't need that level of safety I'm not afraid of the gun being possessed by demons and flying around on its own shooting people.
 

Hafnium1979

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They have a different application but the concept is the same.

Not even close.

Having a fire extinguisher gives me a method in which to fight a fire. Having a weapon gives me a method in which to fight off someone who intends to harm me.
all the more reason to be armed.

And literally no one is arguing against that. I'm even OK with you having that capability. I just want to make sure you are licensed (annually), have extensive background checks and be registered in your town as a gun owner precisely because it is a piece of equipment meant solely to induce physical harm to a living thing.

Why is this so hard?
 

Hafnium1979

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I'm not wrong. We discussed this and you said you agreed: the reason they're designed for that is to protect people.

How, exactly does a gun protect people? Go ahead. I'll wait.

 

CLAX1911

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Not even close.
False statements


And literally no one is arguing against that. I'm even OK with you having that capability. I just want to make sure you are licensed (annually), have extensive background checks and be registered in your town as a gun owner precisely because it is a piece of equipment meant solely to induce physical harm to a living thing.


Why is this so hard?
because it's impossible. There is no registry in my state there is no license, and I'm not doing a background check unless I'm buying one from an FFL. I don't even know how you would do that.
 

calamity

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You've never heard of self-defense?
Rare. When a gun is used to kill a human, most guns kill their owners or their loved ones. Fact.
 

Rucker61

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False statements


because it's impossible. There is no registry in my state there is no license, and I'm not doing a background check unless I'm buying one from an FFL. I don't even know how you would do that.
Hard to believe someone when they say they just want a list of all gun owners when they've previously stayed that their end goal is the complete elimination of privately owned firearms.

Sounds like "just the tip".
 

CLAX1911

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Hard to believe someone when they say they just want a list of all gun owners when they've previously stayed that their end goal is the complete elimination of privately owned firearms.

Sounds like "just the tip".
Every mile starts with an inch that's why we can't budge
 

RF667799

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Not even close.



And literally no one is arguing against that. I'm even OK with you having that capability. I just want to make sure you are licensed (annually), have extensive background checks and be registered in your town as a gun owner precisely because it is a piece of equipment meant solely to induce physical harm to a living thing.

Why is this so hard?

Whew. I'm glad none of my firearms are meant solely to induce physical harm to a living being.
 

TurtleDude

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Rare. When a gun is used to kill a human, most guns kill their owners or their loved ones. Fact.
again much dishonesty. Most uses of firearms for self defense do not involve anyone being shot. The fact is-DGUs per year by lawful owners are much higher than suicides or murders
 

TurtleDude

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Hard to believe someone when they say they just want a list of all gun owners when they've previously stayed that their end goal is the complete elimination of privately owned firearms.

Sounds like "just the tip".
the board is full of people who want to ban guns and then deny the intermediate steps they support are designed to help achieve a ban
 

Lursa

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2020:
Total gun deaths: 43,577
Homicide: 19,421
Suicide: 24,156

24156/43577=55%

That is nowhere near your BS 2/3.

Case closed. Own your failure.
I said I wanted you to LINK to it for proof, I didnt deny it. Look at you, so needy for some kind of undeserved validation.

My numbers were a few yrs older, so?

Now...what exactly is your point?
 

Lursa

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How, exactly does a gun protect people? Go ahead. I'll wait.
??? Here it is, straight from post 2130, did you forget?

Let's examine why man needed to injure and kill, shall we? Why was it necessary to kill and injure?​
To protect families and homes. To wage war to protect resources and territory. To kill for food. Since all of prehistory.
The gun was designed as better technology to PROTECT people and keep them alive. The need had always been there and man had always designed weapons to protect themselves and those things.
So should man not have invented a better means of protection? For getting food? Yes? No? If no, why not?

So how many times will I need to cut and paste this for you? How many times before you stop denying it's accurate and that guns provide valid protection, true to their design and purpose, just like any other weapons that man created for the same purpose, before and since the invention of firearms?

Do you need instruction on 'how' guns work? Is that what you're asking, because otherwise, why are you asking that question, again?

Here's a quick example for you:

Nice neighborhood in Seattle, an intruder climbed up to a balcony, entered thru sliding glass doors, with an ax. The husband went and got his handgun and drove the intruder from the apt. He protected his family with a firearm, and didnt even need to fire it.​
(Because of your repetitive question, re: "how", I'll make it even more obvious...if the intruder had instead charged with the ax, the husband could have protected his family by shooting the attacker. No baseball bat, etc was going to work here...this man was properly prepared and protected his family.)​

 
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Hafnium1979

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False statements


because it's impossible. There is no registry in my state there is no license, and I'm not doing a background check unless I'm buying one from an FFL. I don't even know how you would do that.

You do realize that there is no actual law of physics that makes that impossible. Right? I mean you do realize that right?

The Constitutional protection you currently enjoy (and I dearly hope YOU don't have a gun) is already infringed and it is already circumscribed and limited by court cases. So it is quite possible that we as a nation will install much more strict controls on guns.
 

Hafnium1979

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??? Here it is, straight from post 2130, did you forget?

Let's examine why man needed to injure and kill, shall we? Why was it necessary to kill and injure?​
To protect families and homes. To wage war to protect resources and territory. To kill for food. Since all of prehistory.
The gun was designed as better technology to PROTECT people and keep them alive. The need had always been there and man had always designed weapons to protect themselves and those things.
So should man not have invented a better means of protection? For getting food? Yes? No? If no, why not?

So how many times will I need to cut and paste this for you? How many times before you stop denying it's accurate and that guns provide valid protection, true to their design and purpose, just like any other weapons that man created for the same purpose, before and since the invention of firearms?

Do you need instruction on 'how' guns work? Is that what you're asking, because otherwise, why are you asking that question, again?

Here's a quick example for you:

Nice neighborhood in Seattle, an attacker climbed up to a balcony, entered thru sliding glass doors, with an ax. The husband went and got his handgun and drove the attacker from the apt. He protected his family with a firearm, and didnt even need to fire it.​
(Because of your repetitive question, re: "how", I'll make it even more obvious...if the attacker had instead charged with the ax, the husband could have protected his family by shooting the attacker. No baseball bat, etc was going to work here...this man was properly prepared and protected his family.)​


Why can't you understand a simple question? How does the gun provide protection?

(Hint: you are going to ultimately have to say that the gun represents the threat of bodily harm to any attackers. That's because guns are made for that specific purpose).
 

jaeger19

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Rare. When a gun is used to kill a human, most guns kill their owners or their loved ones. Fact.
You guys need to stop the lies. Enough already.

Its like you are a bunch of anti vaxxers.. not matter the science.. you just will not follow the science.

Guns used defensively don;t have to "kill a human". Simply brandishing a firearm has made a would be criminal stop their aggression toward the person with a firearm.
But YOU KNOW THIS.. even the CDC conceded that the defensive use of guns was significant.

Stop the lies.
 

Lursa

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??? Here it is, straight from post 2130, did you forget?

Let's examine why man needed to injure and kill, shall we? Why was it necessary to kill and injure?​
To protect families and homes. To wage war to protect resources and territory. To kill for food. Since all of prehistory.
The gun was designed as better technology to PROTECT people and keep them alive. The need had always been there and man had always designed weapons to protect themselves and those things.
So should man not have invented a better means of protection? For getting food? Yes? No? If no, why not?

So how many times will I need to cut and paste this for you? How many times before you stop denying it's accurate and that guns provide valid protection, true to their design and purpose, just like any other weapons that man created for the same purpose, before and since the invention of firearms?

Do you need instruction on 'how' guns work? Is that what you're asking, because otherwise, why are you asking that question, again?

Here's a quick example for you:

Nice neighborhood in Seattle, an attacker climbed up to a balcony, entered thru sliding glass doors, with an ax. The husband went and got his handgun and drove the attacker from the apt. He protected his family with a firearm, and didnt even need to fire it.​
(Because of your repetitive question, re: "how", I'll make it even more obvious...if the attacker had instead charged with the ax, the husband could have protected his family by shooting the attacker. No baseball bat, etc was going to work here...this man was properly prepared and protected his family.)​


Why can't you understand a simple question? How does the gun provide protection?

(Hint: you are going to ultimately have to say that the gun represents the threat of bodily harm to any attackers. That's because guns are made for that specific purpose).
That's exactly what my post said :rolleyes: ...so why are you still questioning it? What's the problem with that? Do you disagree that people have the right to use deadly force in self defense or defense of their loved ones?

Jeebus, please read better.
 

Hafnium1979

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Hard to believe someone when they say they just want a list of all gun owners when they've previously stayed that their end goal is the complete elimination of privately owned firearms.

Sounds like "just the tip".

I would be quite happy with people like you and the other posters on this board having no guns whatsoever. But I am a realist and know that isn't going to happen.

As a rational person living in the USA I realize the best we may be able to get is stronger (much stronger) control on gun ownership.

"Just the tip" you say? Here's how it might work out to your benefit.

Let's say that someday (not too far down the road) a large number of AMericans get really tired of daily mass shootings and they wish to pass laws. What if we adopted a much stricter control on gun ownership and reduced the extremely high number of guns out in the general population and had a lot more direct control over where those guns were. Then let's see if the gun homicide rate drops! If we have SIGNIFICANTLY fewer (almost none) mass shootings (we had, what 2 this weekend alone?)

At that point you guys will be able to keep your guns and we're all good!

That's how it works! See?
 

Hafnium1979

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Guns used defensively don;t have to "kill a human". Simply brandishing a firearm has made a would be criminal stop their aggression toward the person with a firearm.

THAT'S BECAUSE THE GUN REPRESENTS THE VERY REAL POSSIBILITY OF KILLING A HUMAN. THAT IS WHY IT IS USED AS A DETERENT. IT IS BECAUSE THE GUN IS SPECIFICALLY MADE TO MAIM OR KILL LIVING THINGS.

Surely even YOU can understand this simple point, right?


 

jaeger19

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You do realize that there is no actual law of physics that makes that impossible. Right? I mean you do realize that right?

The Constitutional protection you currently enjoy (and I dearly hope YOU don't have a gun) is already infringed and it is already circumscribed and limited by court cases. So it is quite possible that we as a nation will install much more strict controls on guns.
Yep.. just like at one time the US government rounded up japanese american citizens and put them in concentration camps. Which by the way has stood as constitutional until 2018 when it came up in the Travel Ban case. .
 

jaeger19

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THAT'S BECAUSE THE GUN REPRESENTS THE VERY REAL POSSIBILITY OF KILLING A HUMAN. THAT IS WHY IT IS USED AS A DETERENT. IT IS BECAUSE THE GUN IS SPECIFICALLY MADE TO MAIM OR KILL LIVING THINGS.

Surely even YOU can understand this simple point, right?
You mean it was specifically meant to protect people? Sure.

You guys get really hung up on this "but but but it was designed to kill thing".

You never really bother to think about history do you? You know why we enjoy the freedom that we do.? Not just in this country.. but in most countries? Firearms.

Firearms became the great equalizer. Suddenly a 150 pound peasant with no martial training could.. with a firearm.. take down the mounted rich knight wearing plate armor who planned on raping the peasants newly married wife.. (as the knights "right".).

Firearms suddenly allowed the average poor or middle class guy.. with no martial training.. no years learning to pull a bow or swing a sword.. with no expensive armor..
To suddenly defend his home and his family from the ravages of a "elite" warrior class..
 
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soylentgreen

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what do you mean by unattended if I leave the room and I did not know the firearm before I left the room?

To try and be clear about the meaning of a gun left unattended. I have described it as a gun in a room while the owner is not in the room.

That's not a safety rule. Guns don't just jump up and start flying through the air and shooting people.

Of course they do not. Safety rules are not a cause of accidents. There is a clear safety rule written in most links about gun safety and specifically for this argument gun storage safety. Not one of them mention an accident will happen if you follow them. Accidents are random events. When was the last time you got out of bed and planned the next accident for the day?

It is your job to now explain why you think objects magically move themselves because I just placed a spell of safetyrullium on them.

if I need it it's there.
The "if "is a bit of a sticking point. And while I admit that I do concede it is still your choice to make. It's how you reason your way through to that choice.

Why would I unload it and put it in a safe that doesn't make any sense.

I guess having a fire extinguisher in my house means fires are really really bad and happen really often or I'm just paranoid.

You're made up safety rule doesn't exist.

Some of the other progun here have agreed that some of their other guns are kept in a manner that follows the same rules that they demand do not exist. That they use metal secured lockable boxes with unloaded guns and ammo locked in another lock box.

The rule exists it is just a case of your lot refusing to apply it to one gun.

Just as a thought experiment. If you owned a hundred guns and of them 99 you kept stored as safety protocol states. and have one gun in which you choose to ignore safety.
1. Which gun in your house is the most dangerous?
2. What makes you think you are immune to accidents?
 

Hafnium1979

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You mean it was specifically meant to protect people? Sure.

Tired of your word games. How does it "protect" people? Just say it! JUST SAY HOW IT DOES THIS. Is it because it's shiny? Is it because it is "L-shaped"? Is it because it comes from WalMart? HOW DOES A GUN PROTECT PEOPLE?

You guys get really hung up on this "but but but it was designed to kill thing".

How does a gun protect people?


Firearms became the great equalizer.

Great equalizer of WHAT? What does a gun do that "equalizes" anything? Please explain.

Suddenly a 150 pound peasant with no martial training could.. with a firearm.. take down the mounted rich knight wearing plate armor who planned on raping the peasants newly married wife.. (as the knights "right".).

"Take down"? You mean as in KILL OR INJURE?

Firearms suddenly allowed the average poor or middle class guy.. with no martial training.. no years learning to pull a bow or swing a sword.. with no expensive armor..
To suddenly defend his home and his family from the ravages of a "elite" warrior class..

HOW DOES THE GUN DO THIS?

And if we are not talking about killing and maiming, why do you bring up "warriors"?????
 

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my storage system is safer than you can imagine.

right so I put on a safety belt when I operate a car when I park it I don't take the wheels off of it before I walk away from it.


there's no need my guns perfectly safe sitting on the nightstand they don't jump up and fly around and shoot people of their own accord.


I don't need that level of safety I'm not afraid of the gun being possessed by demons and flying around on its own shooting people.
How you keep your guns is your choice.

I would think the analogy would be more like you do not park your car and leave the keys in the ignition and the car door unlocked.

And again nothing in the way of how I have talked about accidents suggests that objects move themselves. That is all on you.

Good! Glad to have established your not one of those gun owners who do believe in demons.

The part in bold. Is that an admittance that there is such a level of security?
 
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