[W:225]LA Bars and Restaurants Begin Turning Away Unvaccinated Customers

[CLAX1911]

No, they haven't.

False.

What has happened is that pro-Trump propagandists have convinced Trump supporters that they cannot be trusted.

Prove it.

Masks and social distancing work

False.
[QUOTE[
They are not a fool-proof way of completely eliminating any and all risk to the virus, and they have never been presented to the public as such.

Therefore, what you hare doing now is engaging in a logical fallacy, You are presenting a strawman argument.[/QUOTE] I'm not misrepresenting your argument I'm just disagreeing with it.

The mRNA technology is decades in the making. As of today's date, approximately 3 billion doses have been given and approximately 1 billion people have been fully vaccinated.

How many more billions of people have to be vaccinated before you become convinced the vaccination is safe?

You can vaccinate all 7 billion of us that won't convince me of anything.

The lastung effects of this are unknown. There is no reason for me to get the vaccine number one I've had in covid I survived with no little effects. Number two I'm in a demographics that is less likely to suffer any condition caused by it, number three you can still transmit and carry the virus even if you've been vaccinated I don't believe you vaccinate to protect other people nonsense.

In what way? Be specific.

I already was it's comparing covid-19 to a given flu season for an aggregate of flu seasons.

Are you trying to compare a hypothetical strain of influenza, with properties you've invented in your own mind, that hasn't arisen yet to Covid-19?

No.

You understand what you are doing here is presenting another strawman argument, right?

Actually you created a stronger when you asked me if I was trying to do something that I wasn't trying to do.

If you want to know what I'm trying to do just ask you don't have to guess in such an utterly specific and idiotic way so as to guarantee that your guest is wrong.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I think the bolded is true. But the real-world data don't really bear that out.

What do you mean by real-world data? What are you talking about? Do you somehow think the data I posted earlier is not real? Please explain. Please be specific as well.

Do you just not trust the data posted? Do you think people are lying about their political affiliation?

 

[CLAX1911]

Getting the vaccine decreases the chances that you will be infected.

False

Getting the vaccine increases the body's ability to create antibodies, therefore if you do become infected, it reduces both your likelihood of getting sick AND your likelihood of making other people sick.

Again false.

It's not perfect. But it doesn't have to be perfect to be very helpful. And we know it works because the people getting very sick and the people dying are now mostly people -- exceeding 95 to 98% --- who have not been vaccinated.

And if you look at the figures and charts referenced earlier in this thread you will see the strong correlation between vaccinations and the reduced rate of Covid-19 cases.

who cares the survival rate of covid is over 99%. I'll take my chances

So it's STUPID to say, "Well, it doesn't totally solve the problem so therefore it's shit."

agreed it would be stupid to say that that's why I didn't say that.

The argument Trump supporters are making is "It's not perfect and I won't die from Covid-19 so I'm not going to bother getting it", and it is a stupid, ignorant, selfish argument.

You can think of me hard for you wish I don't value your approval.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

False.

False. You lack sufficient knowledge to opine on this topic

Prove it.

This thread is evidence that the propaganda has worked.

False.

False. You lack sufficient knowledge to opine on this topic

I'm not misrepresenting your argument I'm just disagreeing with it.

Let's focus on what's important:

Your argument is that it isn't 100% effective, right?

My response is simple: It doesn't matter that it isn't 100% effective.

 

[CLAX1911]

Nope. You're wrong.

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[CLAX1911]

False. You lack sufficient knowledge to opine on this topic

personal attacks aren't arguments.

This thread is evidence that the propaganda has worked.

propaganda is a fancy word for lies. If all you do is say everyone that disagrees with you is lying you don't have a very rational position

False. You lack sufficient knowledge to opine on this topic

Personal attacks aren't arguments.

Let's focus on what's important:

Your argument is that it isn't 100% effective, right?

no. My argument is that it isn't effective to any meaningful degree
[QUOTE[
My response is simple: It doesn't matter that it isn't 100% effective.
[/QUOTE]
Your argument is against a strawman fallacy you created

 

[W_Heisenberg]

You can vaccinate all 7 billion of us that won't convince me of anything.

Yeah, and that's a problem.

The lasting effects of this are unknown.

Here's the thing. They are not unknown. There are no lasting effects. We've been studying this technology for several decades. We know exactly what it's going to do. And the fact that you are saying the lasting effects are unknown means you haven't studied the technology. You simply do not know what you're talking about.

There is no reason for me to get the vaccine number one I've had in covid I survived with no little effects. Number two I'm in a demographics that is less likely to suffer any condition caused by it, number three you can still transmit and carry the virus even if you've been vaccinated I don't believe you vaccinate to protect other people nonsense.

#1 This isn't about you. This is about everyone else. This is about reducing the chances of the virus spreading amongst the population as a whole, it's less about particular individuals getting sick.

#2 It does not matter that you can still transmit and carry the virus even if you've been vaccinated. The vaccines DO NOT have to be 100% effective in totally eliminating the spread of the disease. There is a certain percentage of effectiveness, less than 100%, something between 70 to 90% (the portion of the population that needs to be vaccinated), that would nearly eliminate the spread of the virus.

False.

False.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

False.

False.

I already was it's comparing covid-19 to a given flu season for an aggregate of flu seasons.

Well, what aspect of the flu season? Contagiousness? Chance of dying? Chances of serious illness? Hospitalization rate? For which demographic?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

False.

False

Actually you created a stronger when you asked me if I was trying to do something that I wasn't trying to do.

It wasn't a rhetorical question. I was asking you a simple question.

If you want to know what I'm trying to do just ask

I did ask.

you don't have to guess in such an utterly specific and idiotic way so as to guarantee that your guest is wrong.

Has it occurred to you that maybe you were not clear? Has it occurred to you that your attempt to communicate failed on your end?

My "guest." You can't even spell simple words correctly, and you say what I am writing is idiotic?

Please.

 

[CLAX1911]

Yeah, and that's a problem.

that's your problem.

Here's the thing.

Personal attacks aren't arguments

#1 This isn't about you. This is about everyone else. This is about reducing the chances of the virus spreading amongst the population as a whole, it's less about particular individuals getting sick.

#2 It does not matter that you can still transmit and carry the virus even if you've been vaccinated. The vaccines DO NOT have to be 100% effective in totally eliminating the spread of the disease. There is a certain percentage of effectiveness, less than 100%, something between 70 to 90% (the portion of the population that needs to be vaccinated), that would nearly eliminate the spread of the virus.

#1 If you believe this, the best thing you can do is stop talking about it. Your skills at persuasion are extremely poor. Just attack people who don't agree with you
#2 Vaccines are effective in preventing you from having symptoms. Why do you care so much about me having symptoms?

False.

Then we agree?
[/QUOTE]

 

[Cope]

That team is likely so, because being vaccinated represents "money making accessibility"... Maybe the team should have spoken to the citizen population, especially these non vaccinated types who whine and cry about business closures, and other thing where they can't chase making money and let them know... if they'd stepped up and got their vaccines... the spread likely could be better contained, and they'd be able to go back to their money making chase.

These unvaccinated types are the exact ones that complained about business closures and other types of closures, but too dumb to realize they are part of why those closures were so expansive and so prolonged, and they will be the the culprit in any future business closures due to covid, or lock down if it comes to that.
(sadly, these types of unvaccinated people are like ignorance wrapped in layers of ignorance)

There is no way Biden allows a lockdown on his watch. He simply wouldn't get away from it, even if he blamed it all on Trumpists.

 

[CLAX1911]

False

Right what you said was false.

It wasn't a rhetorical question. I was asking you a simple question.

The answer was no, try reading again.

I did ask.

You seemed to be trying to set up a strawman.

Has it occurred to you that maybe you were not clear?

Yes, often times I am unclear if you have a question about what I said and not what you think I was trying to say I'll answer it. If you ask me if I'm trying to say some nonsense you made up, the answer will always be no.

Has it occurred to you that your attempt to communicate failed on your end?

Yes, what would you like cleared up?

My "guest." You can't even spell simple words correctly, and you say what I am writing is idiotic?

I don't view proper spelling as an indicator of intelligence

 

[W_Heisenberg]

that's your problem.

Nope. Not just my problem. It's everyone else's problem. Because whether it's your personal behavior or your political propaganda that you're spreading, your selfish actions are having an impact on your friends, family, neighbors, community, and your country. So congrats for thinking this is all about you.

Personal attacks aren't arguments

I agree. Personal attacks aren't arguments. Why do you think we disagree on this?

 

[CLAX1911]

Nope. Not just my problem. It's everyone else's problem. Because whether it's your personal behavior or your political propaganda that you're spreading, your selfish actions are having an impact on your friends, family, neighbors, community, and your country. So congrats for thinking this is all about you.

I don't really care what you think of me

I agree. Personal attacks aren't arguments. Why do you think we disagree on this?

No idea you haven't made much of an argument. You've simply restated claims and attacked me for not having blind faith in them.

 

[prometeus]

I can see that you are one who can really provide substance in a discussion. Kudos to you.

The substance matches the posts to which I replied, including yours.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

#1 If you believe this, the best thing you can do is stop talking about it. Your skills at persuasion are extremely poor. Just attack people who don't agree with you

I don't agree anymore with this approach. I don't think we should say "pretty please" and ask nicely. Trump supporters are not going to wake up suddenly and start studying texts and studies on epidemiology or biochemistry. At this point, I think the absolute best thing we can do is attack people who are ignorant and uneducated and don't know what they are talking about and keep spreading misinformation about the vaccine. Trump supporters need to be humiliated. They need to be ostracized. They need to be reminded they are ignorant, uneducated, high school dropouts who do not have enough knowledge to opine on epidemiology and biochemistry. They need to be told to be quiet. If we can't get these idiots to change their minds, at least we can convince them to stfu and stop spreading lies to other people.

#2 Vaccines are effective in preventing you from having symptoms. Why do you care so much about me having symptoms?
Then we agree?

Vaccines do more than that. Vaccines teach one's immune system to destroy the Covid-19 virus, and that reduces the rate of replication of the virus in one's body. It makes it less likely you will have symptoms, less likely you will become ill, and less likely you will spread the disease to other people. And, no, it's not perfect, it doesn't totally allow every person's body to totally destroy the virus in every particular circumstance, but it doesn't have to in order to be very successful at controlling the virus, in a human being, and in the population as a whole.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I don't really care what you think of me

I don't care that you don't care what I think of you. It's irrelevant.

Again, This isn't about you. Nobody cares what you think. This is about your neighbors, your friends, your family, your community, your country.

This is about Trump supporters, in general, being selfish assholes and basically screwing things up for everyone else because of that.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

You're entitled to your opinion.

You're entitled to being wrong.

 

[RealityNow]

There is no way Biden allows a lockdown on his watch. He simply wouldn't get away from it, even if he blamed it all on Trumpists.

I don't think many nations can afford a lock down after the vast investment of $Trillions upon Trillions have been put into the system by Global Nation. I think it would have to become some "stern mandates" and policies that will make it difficult for non vaccinated people to go about infecting others.
Many people have made heavy investment to keep their business alive, I don't see them just letting "unvaccinated people" cause them to lose by having to close simple because some people don't want to be vaccinated against a known killer virus.

If I owned a business with a sign saying > No Mask, No Entry, I would not allow anyone without a mask to enter!! I see people go in businesses that have clearly well posted signs that say, Mask Required for Entry, and these asshole go in as if they can't see or read. I'd rather not have a unmasked person, money than to allow them to come in around people who are doing all they can to protect themselves and others.

Our State has a Lower than need be vaccine rate, I see people at work, and getting in elevators without mask. I won't ride with them, and if one tries to come on without a mask, I simply exit and wait for another elevator.

I have no interest in being in this condition or situation
​

 

[Tahuyaman]

The substance matches the posts to which I replied, including yours.

Interesting observation.

 

[CLAX1911]

I don't agree anymore with this approach. I don't think we should say "pretty please" and ask nicely.

this is why I say you should leave this up to people who are better at this than you. The only two options you think exist is asking nicely or throwing an sjw rage fit.

Trump supporters are not going to wake up suddenly and start studying texts and studies on epidemiology or biochemistry.

well yeah but most people wouldn't. I doubt you have done any research you just believe what people tell you. Any big and choose who you believe based on political affiliation.

At this point, I think the absolute best thing we can do is attack people who are ignorant and uneducated and don't know what they are talking about and keep spreading misinformation about the vaccine.

you're wrong here the best way to combat disinformation is with truth, not sjw rage fits. Nobody cares if you hate them in fact they're probably feel blessed because then they don't have to deal with you.

Trump supporters need to be humiliated. They need to be ostracized.

from STW social circles they already are they chose not to be part of that. In fact for a lot of them I think triggering you people is entertainment.

They need to be reminded they are ignorant, uneducated, high school dropouts who do not have enough knowledge to opine on epidemiology and biochemistry.

and this will cause them to become vaccinated how?

They need to be told to be quiet. If we can't get these idiots to change their minds, at least we can convince them to stfu and stop spreading lies to other people.

with sjw rage fits? If anything that provokes some more interaction because it's funny to watch you people rage.

Vaccines do more than that.

Vaccines don't destroy viruses they build immunity how can you lecture anyone about being ignorant on this stuff and you say something that ignorant.

Antiviral drugs destroyed viruses.

 

[Tahuyaman]

I don't think many nations can afford a lock down after the vast investment of $Trillions upon Trillions have been put into the system by Global Nation. I think it would have to become some "stern mandates" and policies that will make it difficult for non vaccinated people to go about infecting others.
Many people have made heavy investment to keep their business alive, I don't see them just letting "unvaccinated people" cause them to lose by having to close simple because some people don't want to be vaccinated against a known killer virus.

If I owned a business with a sign saying > No Mask, No Entry, I would not allow anyone without a mask to enter!! I see people go in businesses that have clearly well posted signs that say, Mask Required for Entry, and these asshole go in as if they can't see or read. I'd rather not have a unmasked person, money than to allow them to come in around people who are doing all they can to protect themselves and others.

Our State has a Lower than need be vaccine rate, I see people at work, and getting in elevators without mask. I won't ride with them, and if one tries to come on without a mask, I simply exit and wait for another elevator.

I have no interest in being in this condition or situation
View attachment 67344432 View attachment 67344433 View attachment 67344434​

The recovery rate from COVID is at 99.78%. If you’re not already in poor physical condition or obese, you’re not at risk.

 

[JasperL]

repeating..

tl/dr

 

[CLAX1911]

tl/dr

Ironic

 

[JasperL]

Actually getting the vaccine doesn't stop you from carrying the virus or transmitting the virus.

Right. And, actually, seatbelts don't "stop" one from getting injured and/or killed in a car wreck. Seatbelts greatly reduce those odds of serious injury or death, but not to 0%.

Now do the same exercise with vaccines. I know you can do it.