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[W:#2026]School's out forever: Arizona moves "to kill public education" with new universal voucher law

bluesmoke

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I believe that the actual (but never stated in public) conservative position is "The workers should never be allowed to combine because for the workers to combine is "socialism/communism", however it is 100% OK for the owners to combine and any interference with their right to combine is "socialism/communism".

Corps influence the govt and the people to socialize/communize cost and privatize profit.
 

bluesmoke

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Yes, a union is designed to protect employees from an abusive employer, the state is hardly that. Furthermore, the check on a union's power is the economic sustainabiltiy of their employer. When their employer is the state, with a nigh unlimited tax base, the whole system falters.

An employee union is designed to protect and progress employee rights, especially economic. Not just protection from employer abuse.

The state, the govt, is quite capable of being abusive to the employee as much as any private enterprise.
 

bluesmoke

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Well, you tell me: have we had a lot of high profile incidences of police officers acting badly lately, and being protected when doing so?

Answer the question and I'll answer relevant question of yours.
 

Groogrux

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Advocates of privatizing the educational system need to look around the world, see what the best systems look like and copy what they're doing, not try to reinvent the wheel.
Absolutely, first to go? No Child Left Behind. Countries that lead the pack in education don’t structure their schools and classrooms around making sure no one’s feelings get hurt. They don’t create classrooms based on grade or age it’s based on intelligence. It’s asinine and does a huge disservice to students to make them all stay at grade level and have all learning abilities and intelligences in one classroom. It holds back the high achieving students and leaves the lower end students to always struggle. But we put them all together so nobody gets their poor feelings hurt because someone is smarter, faster, better.
 

Grand Mal

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Absolutely, first to go? No Child Left Behind. Countries that lead the pack in education don’t structure their schools and classrooms around making sure no one’s feelings get hurt. They don’t create classrooms based on grade or age it’s based on intelligence. It’s asinine and does a huge disservice to students to make them all stay at grade level and have all learning abilities and intelligences in one classroom. It holds back the high achieving students and leaves the lower end students to always struggle. But we put them all together so nobody gets their poor feelings hurt because someone is smarter, faster, better.
I didnt know it was like that in the US. Probably more so in some places that in others.
Another factor is the quality of the teachers, which to a large extent depends on how they're regarded in society. Dedicated individuals can be attracted to the profession. When my son was a small child, age 3, we put him in Montessori preschool because I liked some of their early childhood teaching techniques. When he went to grade school Montessori was an option up to grade six, and we took the option. Not because I thought the early childhood teaching techniques would still be valuable but because the teachers had to take an extra year of training for the certification and I thought that people who would do that were extra dedicated and would be better teachers.
It's enourmously important, attracting good people to be teachers. All the policy and curriculum considerations come second to the quality of the person in front of the class.
 

bluesmoke

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Don't forget that it was an American who invented the wheel (and also an American who invented fire [and also an American who invented food]).

They also invented Americans.
 

TU Curmudgeon

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They also invented Americans.
These questions
"Adam" - "American" - Interesting "coincidence", right?

"Tossed out of Eden" - "tossed out of Europe" - Interesting "coincidence", right?

"10 Commandments" - "10 Amendments" - Interesting "coincidence", right?

"Republicans" - "Righteous" - Interesting "coincidence", right?

"Democrats" - "Devil" - Interesting "coincidence", right?​

are brought to you by "Billy Bob's Uniquely Right (wing) Christian -Thal- -Theu- -Thalu- -Thealug- Bible and Divinity School" [a wholly owned subsidiary of Billy Bob's Only True Original Fundamentalist Four-Square Evangelical Revived Reformed Revealed Biblical Church of Jesus Christ The Perfect Arisen Son Of The Living God World Awakening (Just Send Us Your Folding Money Because Worship Should Be Silent) All Aryan White Soul's Salvation, Redemption, and Witnessing Storefront Mission, B-B-Q, Gun & Body Shop. (INC)] where the motto is "God has already told us what to think, and we'll tell you so you don't have to.".​
 

Groogrux

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I didnt know it was like that in the US. Probably more so in some places that in others.
Another factor is the quality of the teachers, which to a large extent depends on how they're regarded in society. Dedicated individuals can be attracted to the profession. When my son was a small child, age 3, we put him in Montessori preschool because I liked some of their early childhood teaching techniques. When he went to grade school Montessori was an option up to grade six, and we took the option. Not because I thought the early childhood teaching techniques would still be valuable but because the teachers had to take an extra year of training for the certification and I thought that people who would do that were extra dedicated and would be better teachers.
It's enourmously important, attracting good people to be teachers. All the policy and curriculum considerations come second to the quality of the person in front of the class.
Montessori are wonderful. They don’t follow the traditional model of grouping classes by age.
 

bluesmoke

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These questions
"Adam" - "American" - Interesting "coincidence", right?

"Tossed out of Eden" - "tossed out of Europe" - Interesting "coincidence", right?

"10 Commandments" - "10 Amendments" - Interesting "coincidence", right?

"Republicans" - "Righteous" - Interesting "coincidence", right?

"Democrats" - "Devil" - Interesting "coincidence", right?​

are brought to you by "Billy Bob's Uniquely Right (wing) Christian -Thal- -Theu- -Thalu- -Thealug- Bible and Divinity School" [a wholly owned subsidiary of Billy Bob's Only True Original Fundamentalist Four-Square Evangelical Revived Reformed Revealed Biblical Church of Jesus Christ The Perfect Arisen Son Of The Living God World Awakening (Just Send Us Your Folding Money Because Worship Should Be Silent) All Aryan White Soul's Salvation, Redemption, and Witnessing Storefront Mission, B-B-Q, Gun & Body Shop. (INC)] where the motto is "God has already told us what to think, and we'll tell you so you don't have to.".​

What you spell out all fits as well as any explanation given by the RW. Makes as much sense as any of their "reasoning".
 

bluesmoke

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Here ya go, with a 30 second google search


The national average private school tuition is $12,102 per year (2022).



Schools in the United States spend an average of $12,624 per pupil

At first glance, it would seem that public schools are slightly cheaper. However, the average cost per child in a public school does not include the cost of the real estate the school sits on, the buildings that they use and the fact they pay no taxes, and the cost to equip and maintain those buildings. If those figures were included, the public schools' spending would far exceed the private schools. The cost of tax-free real estate and maintenance and supplies such as desks, chalkboards, floor coverings, cleaning, and painting are in the many millions of dollars, all off books to indoctrinate and propagandize the stupid public who are too lazy and uncaring to do a little basic research.

As usual, you make false claims. Public K-12...

".. expenditures include salaries, employee benefits, purchased services, tuition, supplies, and other expenditures. Total expenditures per pupil also included $1,499 in capital outlay. This category includes expenditures for property and for buildings and alterations completed by school district staff or contractors. Total expenditures per pupil also included $420 for interest on school debt.."


It's the private schools that don't have to pay for students they refuse, such as special ed and students that are suspended and expelled from other schools, that public schools are bound by law to accept and cost more than private schools.

You must have skipped over the above while performing your "...basic research."
 

Paradoxical

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As usual, you make false claims. Public K-12...

".. expenditures include salaries, employee benefits, purchased services, tuition, supplies, and other expenditures. Total expenditures per pupil also included $1,499 in capital outlay. This category includes expenditures for property and for buildings and alterations completed by school district staff or contractors. Total expenditures per pupil also included $420 for interest on school debt.."


It's the private schools that don't have to pay for students they refuse, such as special ed and students that are suspended and expelled from other schools, that public schools are bound by law to accept and cost more than private schools.

You must have skipped over the above while performing your "...basic research."
Why should a private school have to take an expelled student? What evidence do you have that a private school won't take a special ed kid?


PS. Public schools do not include in their costs TAXES that a private school has to pay on the land and buildings used for education and those costs are huge. If they did, the cost per student for public schools would be far higher.
 
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