[W:#2026]School's out forever: Arizona moves "to kill public education" with new universal voucher law

[reflechissez]

I don't know why the left is upset. While the right is making small wins like this and in the courts, Democrats are working on the really important issues - like learning everything there is to know about the Oathkeepers.

Cruz v Elmo

 

[justabubba]

this is an interesting and unique experiment
for the students' sake, i hope it works
privitized education was the thing that turned me away from capital "L" libertarianism as a young man. my lean remains in that direction but this one-state test tube might reveal some interesting results

while i doubt the intent was to defund the public schools, that will be a by-product. my speculation is this was a backdoor method to subsidize private school expense to those with the means and desire to send their children to private school. in my burg, the annual fee for the major private schools ranges between $22-27,000 per year

in the other direction, we have gerrymandered our school districts, resulting in affluent kids attending well funded public schools that show positive academic outcomes while poor kids attend underfunded schools with fewer resources and produce inferior academic outcomes. we draw the attendance lines in this manner

my assumption is that the $7000 voucher per student is exactly what it will cost to continue to send one's child to the public schools that will remain open. but those low income students who presently reside outside the school districts of the better performing public schools can now use their voucher to attend the better performing schools

this will cause the weak schools to lose students who do not want to contiunue to attend the lower performing schools while it will over-crowd the higher performing schools. my prediction is demand will outstrip availability of seats in the higher performing schools

then, one of two things will happen:
1. the public school system will have to have a lottery where all applicants have an equal chance to attend, no matter where they reside, causing middle class kids who formerly attended better schools to have to attend lesser schools when they lost out in the lottery; or
2. anticipating that outcome and the political tumult that will follow, the public school administrators will not allow the vouchers to cross the established attendance lines, preventing the underclass kids from being able to attend the better performing schools

option #2 was the response in my community when this same experiement was attempted under the guise of "magnet" schools, where a student achievement standard was established as a pre-requisite to attend the desirable magnet schools. bet the readers can guess from which side of the tracks those accepted students came

it will not surprise me if that is how the AZ public schools will respond ... but the elite private school students' and the Christian school students' families will have then received a school subsidy they did not before enjoy, while carving out the resources of the public school system to pay for it

hopefully, i am again wrong

 

[Chomsky]

Funny how easy that is when you PICK the students..

Bingo!

And, let's not forget public schools are reflective of the socio-economic conditions of their districts. The wealthiest districts in major population centers like New York or Chicago have some of the highest rated schools in the country.

In fact, while the over-all numbers of a school system like Chicago's are mediocre to poor, they still have some of the best individual schools in the country. Which ones? The 'Magnate' schools, which are of course selective admittance!

When AZ private schools are forced to take all comers, including the slackers, miscreants, trouble-makers, truants, ill-prepared, ESL, culturally naive & unaware, socially disadvantaged, impoverished, nutritional-deprived, lacking in parental involvement or even lacking parents themselves, etc., etc., etc., I assure you the private school numbers will plummet!

 

[Chomsky]

There is more then enough. All we really need is the leadership and organization.

There’s more dedicated Christians then ideological leftists, the large swatch of people who are dedicated to nothing will join the winning horse

Well, I guess that removes any thoughts of this merely being pretensions . . .

 

[FurriesRock]

Arizona moves "to kill public education" with new voucher law

Families who bail on public school will get $7,000 per kid in GOP's new scheme: "Every red state" urged to follow

www.salon.com

[snip]
Last Friday, while the country reeled from the Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade, Arizona made history of a different sort. Legislators in the Grand Canyon State passed a universal school voucher bill that, once signed by Gov. Doug Ducey, will become the most wide-reaching school privatization plan in the country.

In his January State of the State address, Ducey called on Arizona lawmakers to send him bills that would "expand school choice any way we can," and the Republican-dominated legislature obliged, delivering last Friday's bill, which will open a preexisting program for Empowerment Scholarship Accounts (ESAs) up to the entire state. In practice, the law will now give parents who opt out of public schools a debit card for roughly $7,000 per child that can be used to pay for private school tuition, but also for much more: for religious schools, homeschool expenses, tutoring, online classes, education supplies and fees associated with "microschools"

"Every red state in the country should follow [Ducey's] lead," since the law "gives every family a right to exit any public school that fails to educate their children or reflect their values."

From Rhode Island, anti-CRT activist Nicole Solas, a fellow with the right-wing Independent Women's Forum, tweeted, "You know what happens when you abuse people? People leave you. Bye, public school."

"The Republican universal voucher system is designed to kill public education," tweeted former Arizona House Rep. Diego Rodriguez. "OUR nation's greatness is built on free Public schools. The GOP goal is to recreate segregation, expand the opportunity gap, and destroy the foundation of our democracy."

"I think it's a very serious mistake and the result will be that, within a decade, Arizona will have a very, very poorly educated adult population," added Carol Corbett Burris, executive director of the Network for Public Education. "Maybe that's the game."

"One of the things people never fully comprehend is how far privatization advocates want to take things," he said. "They want to get rid of all public funding for education. Eventually vouchers will die off too." What will remain, he argues, will be a self-funded primary education system, funded by a lending market much as colleges are. Or as Lewis says, a "system of haves and have-nots."
[snip]

At this point, every post I put in the breaking news section feels like I'm documenting the rise of Christian Nationalism. It seems like every day...a little piece of our society is stripped away. A little closer to their vision of theocratic fascism. On it's own...this is not a huge deal. But take in the context of current events this is just one more chip away.

Rep. Diego Rodriguez and Carol Burris are both lying. With the school voucher program education is still publicly funded. The only change is that now parents will have a choice in how to use those funds to educate children.

I understand why Burris is lying. As voucher programs grow from state to state Burris's legacy and position will fade into irrelevance. Rodriguez; however, has no reason to lie other than playing to party politics.

 

[justabubba]

Funding is not and never has been the issue with public schools. Private schools get a better result with far less funding per student.

another assertion you will be unable to document

 

[Chomsky]

Where's the money coming from? Are they just going to close down the public schools?

And just as importantly, will tax monies be used to fund religion/religiosity?

And while were at it, will the private schools be forced to take all comers - as public school is bound.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Wow, Nomad4Ever, I'm impressed. Can I assume you followed up with traditional higher education? Because by your posts you seem to have acquired a pretty decent body of knowledge, at least in the subjects you choose to participate in here.

Haha, I appreciate the complement. Yes, I was homeschooled until I went to college. However, I was not homeschooled in the sense most people have. We homeschooled not for religious reasons, but because my parents travel full time for my dad's construction job. So I grew up moving every few months.

We followed more of an "unschooled" philosophy where my parents didn't make me learn any particular subject in any particular order or pace. I just learned about what I was interested in when I was interested in it. We also incorporated our traveling heavily into learning, and made an effort to go to museums and national parks wherever we were.

I have a lot of interests, and because I wasn't forced to learn it I stayed interested in many things and remembered that knowledge because I wasn't studying for a test, I was studying for myself.

I only ask this, because I'm generally against home-schooling - as I can't see any two parents having the full pallet of skills, expertise, and knowledge, that the best traditional educators have in their specific subjects, particularly at the H.S./Prep levels.

I recognize the problems with homeschooling, and it isn't for everyone and there are many scenarios where it can be harmful. It happened to work out for me but I don't overlook the broader issues with it. However, it is also true that our public school system is fundamentally broken. I believe homeschooling should remain an option but it is NOT a solution. Our public school system needs major work.

 

[Antiwar]

With respect:

The last paragraph of the article:

Quote:

In 2006, just a few years after DeVos infamously called on conservative Christians to adopt "school choice" as a cause and a means of "greater Kingdom gain," Arizona passed two voucher programs. But three years later, both were found to be unconstitutional means of redirecting public funds to private schools.

 

[Chomsky]

You are advocating for religious grooming because everyday people dont want to be indoctrinated by your religion.

How embarrassing is that?

That seems to be it.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Trumpsters elected the least Christian president in history.. A man who said he never asked God for forgiveness.. A big no-no.. A man who golfs every Sunday.. Lies daily.. And steals money constantly.. A man who cheated on his wifes, and admitted to cheating with other mens wifes...A man who worships greed and wealth..

And they now complain about the decline of Christianity?? Lol

If it wasn't so sad I'd be funny...

 

[justabubba]

Bingo!

And, let's not forget public schools are reflective of the socio-economic conditions of their districts. The wealthiest districts in major population centers like New York or Chicago have some of the highest rated schools in the country.

In fact, while the over-all numbers of a school system like Chicago's are mediocre to poor, they still have some of the best individual schools in the country. Which ones? The 'Magnate' schools, which are of course selective admittance!

When AZ private schools are forced to take all comers, including the slackers, miscreants, trouble-makers, truants, ill-prepared, ESL, culturally naive & unaware, socially disadvantaged, impoverished, nutritional-deprived, lacking in parental involvement or even lacking parents themselves, etc., etc., etc., I assure you the private school numbers will plummet!

while your prediction is absolutely accurate, there is nothing to indicate private schools will be obligated to accept all students

 

[TobyOne]

This is the direction most states should go. Unfortunately, the corrupt marriage between Teachers' unions and politicians will prevent it in many states.

 

[Chomsky]

School choice is the best thing for k-12 education. In the long run it is even a good thing for public schools. It's about time that public schools have to compete for students.

I'm with you, here.

As long as:

1] Private institution have to take all comers, as public institutions must.

2] No tax dollars are used to promote religion.

--

But to be honest, I think things are best left as they are. I want private schools to remain selective or promote religion if they so desire.

 

[BlueTex]

This is the direction most states should go. Unfortunately, the corrupt marriage between Teachers' unions and politicians will prevent it in many states.

How much do you suppose educating a child with downs syndrome will cost per year?

 

[justabubba]

This is the direction most states should go. Unfortunately, the corrupt marriage between Teachers' unions and politicians will prevent it in many states.

every state with unionized public teachers has better academic outcomes than all the states which prohibit unionized teachers - with one exception, virginia

so, explain how the teachers' unions are going to diminish the academic outcomes of the underperforming non-union schools

 

[Chomsky]

I don't know why the left is upset. While the right is making small wins like this and in the courts, Democrats are working on the really important issues - like learning everything there is to know about the Oathkeepers.

My complaint would be if tax monies are used to promote religion.

 

[Rexedgar]

Nothing wrong with a Faith-based education, for those that desire it.

But the big problem here is using tax dollars to do it.

I think this is going to be attempted.

 

[Bullseye]

Arizona moves "to kill public education" with new voucher law

Families who bail on public school will get $7,000 per kid in GOP's new scheme: "Every red state" urged to follow

www.salon.com

[snip]
Last Friday, while the country reeled from the Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade, Arizona made history of a different sort. Legislators in the Grand Canyon State passed a universal school voucher bill that, once signed by Gov. Doug Ducey, will become the most wide-reaching school privatization plan in the country.

In his January State of the State address, Ducey called on Arizona lawmakers to send him bills that would "expand school choice any way we can," and the Republican-dominated legislature obliged, delivering last Friday's bill, which will open a preexisting program for Empowerment Scholarship Accounts (ESAs) up to the entire state. In practice, the law will now give parents who opt out of public schools a debit card for roughly $7,000 per child that can be used to pay for private school tuition, but also for much more: for religious schools, homeschool expenses, tutoring, online classes, education supplies and fees associated with "microschools"

"Every red state in the country should follow [Ducey's] lead," since the law "gives every family a right to exit any public school that fails to educate their children or reflect their values."

From Rhode Island, anti-CRT activist Nicole Solas, a fellow with the right-wing Independent Women's Forum, tweeted, "You know what happens when you abuse people? People leave you. Bye, public school."

"The Republican universal voucher system is designed to kill public education," tweeted former Arizona House Rep. Diego Rodriguez. "OUR nation's greatness is built on free Public schools. The GOP goal is to recreate segregation, expand the opportunity gap, and destroy the foundation of our democracy."

"I think it's a very serious mistake and the result will be that, within a decade, Arizona will have a very, very poorly educated adult population," added Carol Corbett Burris, executive director of the Network for Public Education. "Maybe that's the game."

"One of the things people never fully comprehend is how far privatization advocates want to take things," he said. "They want to get rid of all public funding for education. Eventually vouchers will die off too." What will remain, he argues, will be a self-funded primary education system, funded by a lending market much as colleges are. Or as Lewis says, a "system of haves and have-nots."
[snip]

At this point, every post I put in the breaking news section feels like I'm documenting the rise of Christian Nationalism. It seems like every day...a little piece of our society is stripped away. A little closer to their vision of theocratic fascism. On it's own...this is not a huge deal. But take in the context of current events this is just one more chip away.

Maybe if public schools actually asked and listened to the parents of their student rather than the grotesque nonsense woeness and teachers' unions (oops, sorry for the redundancy) things like this wouldn't happen. Teach "reading, writing, and 'arithmetic" instead of White blame, masterbation, and cutting off dicks.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

My complaint would be if tax monies are used to promote religion.

Oh, they will be.

 

[Bullseye]

My complaint would be if tax monies are used to promote religion.

And quality education. That math isn't racist, or that America isn't all bad and not every White is descended from slave owners.
Seriously, there are many charter schools that aren't religion-affliliated.

 

[justabubba]

Maybe if public schools actually asked and listened to the parents of their student rather than the grotesque nonsense woeness and teachers' unions (oops, sorry for the redundancy) things like this wouldn't happen. Teach "reading, writing, and 'arithmetic" instead of White blame, masterbation, and cutting off dicks.

hello! anybody home?

those parents of the public school students are the people who elected the school board that oversees the policies and practices of the public school system

they actually elect a batch of representatives to represent theirs', and their childrens', interests in the public school system

clearly, one subject the school board, and the parents who elected them, failed to effectively address was the teaching of basic civics. from this board it has become evident that many have little civics understanding ... and thank you for the example

 

[Maidenrules29]

So the schools DO pick which students to enroll..

I think you are conflating "choosing" with "denying". I'm sure there are plenty of hoighty-toighty private schools that have "strict admittance rules" based on ethnicity, parents wealth, etc, but for regular magnet/charter schools and Christian schools I dont think they are rejecting applicants based on thise things, its probably more first-come first served.

 

[Chomsky]

Why should that matter as long as they are accredited and teach all the basics the students need to graduate.

Given there are reasonable minimum educational standards to be met, and adequate monitoring & enforcement mechanisms in place to see the children are not being educationally neglected, then I have no problem accepting the rights of parents to choose that route.

But while I accept this as a parental right, my heart still goes-out to those kids that would be essentially knee-capped from achieving their highest levels they are capable of. I also have concerns with the social aspects, but cannot make an educated assessment on this last aspect.

And as a personal matter, I don't know why any parents would be happy with minimum standards. I'm fully cognizant that I & my wife could not educate our kids to the same standards as the schools in my area, so we sent them to Catholic Schools, the same as we both had attended. Yes, we wanted them very much to have a Catholic education, one of Faith & values. But besides that, we knew there's no way we could compete with the instructors & resources in the kids' schools, even with both of us being degreed and highly dedicated to our educating our much beloved.

No, and they shouldn't.

If they receive tax monies, they absolutely should.

 

[Bullseye]

hello! anybody home?

those parents of the public school students are the people who elected the school board that oversees the policies and practices of the public school system

Yep, absolutely. AND they're the ones recalling them, voting them out of office and speaking out on the travesty of public education

they actually elect a batch of representatives to represent theirs', and their childrens', interests in the public school system

clearly, one subject the school board, and the parents who elected them, failed to effectively address was the teaching of basic civics. from this board it has become evident that many have little civics understanding ... and thank you for the example

And if the teachers and board member hadn't done such a piss-poor job this would be an issue.