[W:183]Reasons to Believe

[Angel]

What reasons do you have to believe there is a God?

I made the following reply to what has become the OP Question in this thread, made the following reply to Good4Nothing, a newcomer who brings to DP a fresh and exciting vision of reality, made the following reply to the question whether my reasons to believe are based on personal experiences:
​

In a sense, yes, personal experiences. The experience of the person I am in the world. I'm talking about my consciousness, my life, and the physical world in which my conscious life appears to be set. These phenomena comprise a stupendous given. There's no getting around them and no getting outside them, and yet they point to something beyond themselves, for there is no accounting for them from within the phenomena themselves. From within the phenomena themselves such accounting has promoted science, art and religion and the whole cultural adventure we call "civilization" -- the long struggle for purchase on the "stupendous given," or shall we say the Stupendous Given. But the only account of the Stupendous Given, the only account of conscious life in the world that does not beg the question is the account that infers to a Stupendous Giver, so to say, or at least to a Stupendous Sustainer, or to avoid personification, to a Stupendous Sustaining at work behind the phenomena.

In simple terms, from the existence of consciousness, the existence of life, and the existence of the physical universe, the inference to the best explanation is God.

I invite believers to share with us in this thread their reason or reasons to believe -- if they're not too personal and private, that is.

I invite non-believers to think.

I encourage believers and non-believers alike to adopt two cats in the New Year 2019.

​

 

[Angel]

Re: Reasons to Believe

In a sense, yes, personal experiences.
The experience of the person I am in the world.

I'm talking about my consciousness, my life, and the physical world in which my conscious life appears to be set.
These phenomena comprise a stupendous given. There's no getting around them and no getting outside them, and yet they point to something beyond themselves,
for there is no accounting for them from within the phenomena themselves.

From within the phenomena themselves such accounting has promoted science, art and religion and the whole cultural adventure we call "civilization" -- the long struggle for purchase on the "stupendous given," or shall we say the Stupendous Given.

But the only account of the Stupendous Given, the only account of conscious life in the world that does not beg the question is the account that infers to a Stupendous Giver, so to say, or at least to a Stupendous Sustainer, or to avoid personification, to a Stupendous Sustaining at work behind the phenomena.

In simple terms, from the existence of consciousness, the existence of life, and the existence of the physical universe, the inference to the best explanation is God.​

 

[Tim the plumber]

Re: Reasons to Believe

the best explanation is God

Well, you think it is the best. And the best for you.

OK.

Good luck with that.

 

[Tom Horn]

Re: Reasons to Believe

A God? Or a few Gods? And I’m taking for granted my personal beliefs that only pertain to me and no one else.

 

[marke]

Re: Reasons to Believe

Well, you think it is the best. And the best for you.

OK.

Good luck with that.

Life and death are not much more than unknowns to leftist atheists who must gamble on what might or might not be reality beyond what they can personally physically touch, feel or taste.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Reasons to Believe

Life and death are not much more than unknowns to leftist atheists who must gamble on what might or might not be reality beyond what they can personally physically touch, feel or taste.

What about rightist atheists? You are gambling too. Hinduism could be the true religion. Or Islam.

 

[gfm7175]

Re: Reasons to Believe

...OP...

You pretty much nailed why I believe there is a God... It comes from personal experience... It comes from the realization of all the things which we believe on a faith basis...

 

[Good4Nothin]

Re: Reasons to Believe

I had some hard lessons in my life. Each time I could have decided that the universe doesn't care about me, doesn't care about anyone, is not alive. Or I could have decided that the Universe might be alive, but if it is, it hates me.

However, I resisted that kind of negative thinking because it leads nowhere and is destructive. As a result, each time bad things happened I learned something valuable. The harder the lesson, the more valuable the thing I learned.

I didn't come into this world knowing the best ways to live, and I wasn't taught that. I doubt anyone is, because the best way to live is different for each of us. Our parents and teachers and other experts are of limited help.

Who can teach us then? If you are the materialist kind of atheist who thinks the universe is dead and mindless (because it has no neurons!), then you would be on your own I guess. Or maybe your subconscious would guide you, and the subconscious mind is connected to the Universe, even if you deny it.

In my case, there was a hand reaching back every time I reached out mine. In miraculous indescribable ways.

But I had a sense of something divine going on behind the scenes ever since I was born. I have often run away from it and walled it off. But I always know it's there.

When life is going along smoothly, it's easy to forget to reach out. It's easy to think we have everything under control and don't need any help. Then you trip and fall into another black hole. And then you remember there is a way out.

 

[devildavid]

Re: Reasons to Believe

Life and death are not much more than unknowns to leftist atheists who must gamble on what might or might not be reality beyond what they can personally physically touch, feel or taste.

What about to right wing atheists? What is life and death to them? Or to neutral, Swiss atheists?

 

[devildavid]

Re: Reasons to Believe

I had some hard lessons in my life. Each time I could have decided that the universe doesn't care about me, doesn't care about anyone, is not alive. Or I could have decided that the Universe might be alive, but if it is, it hates me.

However, I resisted that kind of negative thinking because it leads nowhere and is destructive. As a result, each time bad things happened I learned something valuable. The harder the lesson, the more valuable the thing I learned.

I didn't come into this world knowing the best ways to live, and I wasn't taught that. I doubt anyone is, because the best way to live is different for each of us. Our parents and teachers and other experts are of limited help.

Who can teach us then? If you are the materialist kind of atheist who thinks the universe is dead and mindless (because it has no neurons!), then you would be on your own I guess. Or maybe your subconscious would guide you, and the subconscious mind is connected to the Universe, even if you deny it.

In my case, there was a hand reaching back every time I reached out mine. In miraculous indescribable ways.

But I had a sense of something divine going on behind the scenes ever since I was born. I have often run away from it and walled it off. But I always know it's there.

When life is going along smoothly, it's easy to forget to reach out. It's easy to think we have everything under control and don't need any help. Then you trip and fall into another black hole. And then you remember there is a way out.

What is the Universe? And why do you need it to care about you? Why does the Universe sit back and watch people suffer and die?

 

[Good4Nothin]

Re: Reasons to Believe

What is the Universe? And why do you need it to care about you? Why does the Universe sit back and watch people suffer and die?

If you're happy without feeling connected to something that cares about you, you should just continue the way you are.

The Universe has watched me suffer, as I pretended to be in charge and didn't ask for help. When I finally asked for understanding, I got it.

Why does the Universe let people die? Well life is supposed to be temporary, we aren't meant to stay here forever. And if no one died, imagine how over-crowded it would get.

Speaking of that, Google is now investing zillions of dollars in research trying to cure death. Did ANYONE EVER THINK about the consequences of no one dying?

But don't worry, they will never cure death. Silly humans.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Reasons to Believe

If you're happy without feeling connected to something that cares about you, you should just continue the way you are.

The Universe has watched me suffer, as I pretended to be in charge and didn't ask for help. When I finally asked for understanding, I got it.

Why does the Universe let people die? Well life is supposed to be temporary, we aren't meant to stay here forever. And if no one died, imagine how over-crowded it would get.

Speaking of that, Google is now investing zillions of dollars in research trying to cure death. Did ANYONE EVER THINK about the consequences of no one dying?

But don't worry, they will never cure death. Silly humans.

Not quite.
"Our relationship with AbbVie is a pivotal event for Calico, whose mission is to develop life-enhancing therapies for people with age-related diseases. It will greatly accelerate our efforts to understand the science of aging, advance our clinical work, and help bring important therapies to patients everywhere," said Art Levinson, CEO and founder of Calico, and the former chairman and CEO of Genentech.

https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/3/6102377/google-calico-cure-death-1-5-billion-research-abbvie


The universe does not "let people die".

 

[devildavid]

Re: Reasons to Believe

If you're happy without feeling connected to something that cares about you, you should just continue the way you are.

The Universe has watched me suffer, as I pretended to be in charge and didn't ask for help. When I finally asked for understanding, I got it.

Why does the Universe let people die? Well life is supposed to be temporary, we aren't meant to stay here forever. And if no one died, imagine how over-crowded it would get.

Speaking of that, Google is now investing zillions of dollars in research trying to cure death. Did ANYONE EVER THINK about the consequences of no one dying?

But don't worry, they will never cure death. Silly humans.

What about pain and suffering?

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Reasons to Believe

Still no evidence of a sentient universe.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Re: Reasons to Believe

Not quite.
"Our relationship with AbbVie is a pivotal event for Calico, whose mission is to develop life-enhancing therapies for people with age-related diseases. It will greatly accelerate our efforts to understand the science of aging, advance our clinical work, and help bring important therapies to patients everywhere," said Art Levinson, CEO and founder of Calico, and the former chairman and CEO of Genentech.

https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/3/6102377/google-calico-cure-death-1-5-billion-research-abbvie


The universe does not "let people die".

Oh yes, of course, any day now. They will do all they say, just give it time. And money, more money, more money, they will cure everything. They will understand everything. The great THEY, the rulers of nature, the conquerors of matter. HAVE FAITH.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Re: Reasons to Believe

What about pain and suffering?

I know what you mean. The Universe let me stub my toe and boy did that ever hurt! Now, what kind of Universe would allow such a thing to happen to me. Not fair. I will tell the Universe that it's dead and mindless. Otherwise it would never allow me to get hurt, never.

 

[davidhume]

Re: Reasons to Believe

What reasons do you have to believe there is a God?

I made the following reply to what has become the OP Question in this thread, made the following reply to Good4Nothing, a newcomer who brings to DP a fresh and exciting vision of reality, made the following reply to the question whether my reasons to believe are based on personal experiences:




I invite believers to share with us in this thread their reason or reasons to believe -- if they're not too personal and private, that is.

I invite non-believers to think.

I encourage believers and non-believers alike to adopt two cats in the New Year 2019.

​

Your obsession is not healthy.

 

[rjay]

Re: Reasons to Believe

Life and death are not much more than unknowns to leftist atheists who must gamble on what might or might not be reality beyond what they can personally physically touch, feel or taste.

What must life and death be to conservative atheists? What about Chinese atheists, or Indian atheists? You never told us what life and death are to basketball playing atheists, or 'pretend to be religious' atheists?

Why single out those atheists that also have political ideas that differ from yours? What about the atheists that differ from you in other ways?

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Re: Reasons to Believe

What reasons do you have to believe there is a God?

I made the following reply to what has become the OP Question in this thread, made the following reply to Good4Nothing, a newcomer who brings to DP a fresh and exciting vision of reality, made the following reply to the question whether my reasons to believe are based on personal experiences:




I invite believers to share with us in this thread their reason or reasons to believe -- if they're not too personal and private, that is.

I invite non-believers to think.

I encourage believers and non-believers alike to adopt two cats in the New Year 2019.

​

Why believe? Comfort is a pretty good answer.



Adopted mid-2017.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: Reasons to Believe

Life and death are not much more than unknowns to leftist atheists who must gamble on what might or might not be reality beyond what they can personally physically touch, feel or taste.

It's a proven fact that all atheists are actually arch-conservatives, and The Conservative Atheist Prophecy has confirmed this.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Reasons to Believe

Oh yes, of course, any day now. They will do all they say, just give it time. And money, more money, more money, they will cure everything. They will understand everything. The great THEY, the rulers of nature, the conquerors of matter. HAVE FAITH.

So you would prefer us to be in the Middle Ages? How do you think that so many major diseases have been brought under control? How ironic that you are using science to post here. If it was up to you we'd be using smoke signals

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Reasons to Believe

I know what you mean. The Universe let me stub my toe and boy did that ever hurt! Now, what kind of Universe would allow such a thing to happen to me. Not fair. I will tell the Universe that it's dead and mindless. Otherwise it would never allow me to get hurt, never.

You're learning.

 

[Angel]

Re: Reasons to Believe

Your obsession is not healthy.

The OP invited non-believers to think, not throw up.

 

[davidhume]

Re: Reasons to Believe

The OP invited non-believers to think, not throw up.

You are obsessed with showing how wrong everyone is to not believe as you do. That is not healthy.

 

[marke]

Re: Reasons to Believe

What about rightist atheists? You are gambling too. Hinduism could be the true religion. Or Islam.

For those who are erroneously worried about me, tell them I will just have to take my chances like they will. That might be something they can comprehend.