• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

[W:171] AOC and ‘Squad’ Defund Israel’s Iron Dome Defence System from Democrats’ $1Bn Spending Bill

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
54,179
Reaction score
19,799
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib struck down the funding for Israel's defensive Iron Dome system -- and for what? Because it's a defensive system that saves lives from incoming missiles that would otherwise take lives.


Why do we have to pay for this? It's time the Israelis put on their big boy pants and started paying for their own defense. Plus this only makes Israel less likely to sit down with the Palestinians and make the 2 State solution a reality. That is how they will get lasting peace and security.
 

Tbird19482

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
4,530
Reaction score
1,763
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Nice rant, but you still haven't demonstrated why we should be paying for another sovereign nation's defense. Want to give that a shot, rather than ranting about leftists and providing stupid bumper sticker slogans. Thanks in advance.
How about somebody explain to me why we are giving aid to Russia, China. Iran and now the Afghan gov. ( the Taliban ) and other countries like these
Take some of these millions if not Billions and help the people of the US who have Hurricane damage, the people in Porto Rico and help rebuild Haiti
Porto Rico is part of the US and in some parts of the country they still don't have power from several years ago and Haiti has had earth quakes on top of the Hurricanes and is still in a mess
Point is if we are going to give other countries aid we should be giving countries that really need it not Russia and China
Have a nice night
 

bomberfox

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
19,340
Reaction score
5,450
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
To add some very relevant context:






I agree with the progs.

Last minute no-strings-attached billion just tossed at a country that can easily afford to pay for their own defense, and the Iron Dome, done in a futile attempt to entice Republicans ostensibly. That outlay clearly doesn't need to be there.

Again, we don't need to provide money, without strings, to an advanced economy that can more than afford to pay its own way.
The guns and butter days clearly over.
 

lurchadams

Zoom Warrior
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
25,724
Reaction score
12,718
Location
Seattle Area
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib struck down the funding for Israel's defensive Iron Dome system -- and for what? Because it's a defensive system that saves lives from incoming missiles that would otherwise take lives.


Right in the article you referenced - the funding will be reinstated in a later vote. So what's the problem, exactly?
 

Schism

Excellent Point
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
5,064
Reaction score
1,971
Location
Eugene, Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Nice rant, but you still haven't demonstrated why we should be paying for another sovereign nation's defense. Want to give that a shot, rather than ranting about leftists and providing stupid bumper sticker slogans. Thanks in advance.

Maybe you're confused. I don't support defending any nation but our own.

Neither do I support paying for criminals, lazy drug-addicted lay-abouts, or illegal border crossers.
 

Integrityrespec

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
11,842
Reaction score
4,360
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib struck down the funding for Israel's defensive Iron Dome system -- and for what? Because it's a defensive system that saves lives from incoming missiles that would otherwise take lives.


Because the are anti-semetic that's why. They also hate America and I'm sure our allies as well. Mostly it's ant-semitism.
 

Schism

Excellent Point
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
5,064
Reaction score
1,971
Location
Eugene, Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Right in the article you referenced - the funding will be reinstated in a later vote. So what's the problem, exactly?

The problem is your and the squads hatred for America.
 

Integrityrespec

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
11,842
Reaction score
4,360
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
We spend a billion dollars on Israeli missile defense? Why? Definitely cut that.
Israel is our best alley in the region. Money we spend to help them provide their defense is money and men we don't have to spend later and in greater quantity.
 

buck

DP Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
12,278
Reaction score
4,992
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
What do they think the outcome will be? If Israel's citizens aren't protected from terrorists trying to kill them with rockets... the response from Israel to any violence will have to be much stronger then in the past. I predict a lot of dead Palestinian citizens once rockets start flying in to Israel.

Maybe that is their goal? Thinking they can sacrifice Palestinians in the hope it will turn opinion against israel?
 

Cardinal

Respected on both sides
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
82,172
Reaction score
61,411
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Yeah, others on the left, how dare we prop up an ally - the only functional democracy in the area - who built a defense system because some terrorist organizations with broad popular support spent decades lobbing missiles, setting off bombs, and allying with other countries all with the goal of destroying Israel and killing the Jews? At any rate, this is in GP, which auto-gimps any proper response, all of which require an honest approach to the full history and not just one-sided "apartheid!" and "why do we support this one ally (when we don't ask this question of any other ally)" crap.

There are completely different wrongs on either side, but Iron Dome? What's the point of defunding Iron Dome, beyond "**** Israel"?



Yeah...whatever the answer is to trying to settle things, that isn't it. And any righties....don't you tell me I should vote for the GOP. A few of you on DP will have honest exchanges with me, but the rest only agree if they think something I've said against someone more on my "side" backs up something you said. The GOP's support for Israel is based on the assumption that I have some higher loyalty to Israel, and that by braying loudly in support of Israel you'll suck my vote away from Democrats or non-GOP third parties. That insults me perhaps a bit more, in the opposite direction.

At the end of the day, the actions of each party tend to be about the same. But if AOC and the others succeed in blocking that money, they can rot in hell.
When Israel was vying for a two state solution in good faith I was steadfastly in support of them. Once they abandoned that course there was nothing left for me to defend. I would happily put the iron dome back in the budget contingent on good faith peace negotiations. As it stands there doesn’t appear to be any meaningful compulsion for a hard right government dominated by the interests of ultra Orthodox Jews who believe God gave them all of Israel, West Bank very much included.
 

PeacefulWarrior

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
4,351
Reaction score
1,794
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
When Israel was vying for a two state solution in good faith I was steadfastly in support of them. Once they abandoned that course there was nothing left for me to defend. I would happily put the iron dome back in the budget contingent on good faith peace negotiations. As it stands there doesn’t appear to be any meaningful compulsion for a hard right government dominated by the interests of ultra Orthodox Jews who believe God gave them all of Israel, West Bank very much included.

da jooos*
 

Loulit01

Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
2,324
Reaction score
1,802
Location
I'm right here on the left.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Well technically a big chunk of the U.S. military aid to Israel they plow back into purchasing U.S. military hardware.
So they give Israel taxpayer dollars. Israel then gives the money to defense contracters and huge chunks of it wind up in the pockets of their top executives and major stockholders.

Some racket.
 

Loulit01

Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
2,324
Reaction score
1,802
Location
I'm right here on the left.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Israel is our best alley in the region. Money we spend to help them provide their defense is money and men we don't have to spend later and in greater quantity.
Up to a point. Then you hit the law of diminishing returns. After that it's just greed and corruption.
 

Surrealistik

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
7,691
Reaction score
3,489
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
What do they think the outcome will be? If Israel's citizens aren't protected from terrorists trying to kill them with rockets... the response from Israel to any violence will have to be much stronger then in the past. I predict a lot of dead Palestinian citizens once rockets start flying in to Israel.

Maybe that is their goal? Thinking they can sacrifice Palestinians in the hope it will turn opinion against israel?
Why shouldn't Israel, which can certainly afford to pay for it, pay for it?
 

Carl Young

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
5,736
Reaction score
1,351
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Yes, we know. You were hoping that your failed fool’s gold fuhrer was going to turn it into a facist state.
You knew that, huh? What was the giveaway?
 

Ishm

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Messages
383
Reaction score
246
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
BS!
The country has an advanced economy and the Iron Dome has been developed in israel. They are more than capable of covering the cost from their own taxes. In essence, we subsidize their economy.. As I said, such foreign help should be used to help Haitians to replace their houses.
How is that going to fund political campaigns?
 

Juin

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Messages
589
Reaction score
101
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
America could never be defeated from the outside but it is been destroyed from within.



It was true of the Roman Imperium as well. The end was in the making as its own woke version caused the Imperium to rot bit by bit inside
 

Carl Young

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2021
Messages
5,736
Reaction score
1,351
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
When Israel was vying for a two state solution in good faith I was steadfastly in support of them. Once they abandoned that course there was nothing left for me to defend. I would happily put the iron dome back in the budget contingent on good faith peace negotiations. As it stands there doesn’t appear to be any meaningful compulsion for a hard right government dominated by the interests of ultra Orthodox Jews who believe God gave them all of Israel, West Bank very much included.
And you feel the Muslims in the area have peaceful intentions towards the Jews?
 

EMNofSeattle

No Shame!
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
28,206
Reaction score
8,517
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib struck down the funding for Israel's defensive Iron Dome system -- and for what? Because it's a defensive system that saves lives from incoming missiles that would otherwise take lives.


They want to force Israel to take military action against hamas that will risk killing civilians. So they can then spin it as Israel being evil. It is like Tsar Alexander II, when he emancipated the serfs the left in Russia was terrified that reforms might lead to Russians not wanting revolution, so they threw a bomb under his cart and killed him so that they could lead a revolution.

We’re dealing with left wing ideologies that want to kill people if it advances their cause
 

EMNofSeattle

No Shame!
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
28,206
Reaction score
8,517
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
When Israel was vying for a two state solution in good faith I was steadfastly in support of them. Once they abandoned that course there was nothing left for me to defend. I would happily put the iron dome back in the budget contingent on good faith peace negotiations. As it stands there doesn’t appear to be any meaningful compulsion for a hard right government dominated by the interests of ultra Orthodox Jews who believe God gave them all of Israel, West Bank very much included.
There is no two state solution that will ever materialize. The generic non-special arabs in that area believe they are special and are too intransigent to agree to such a thing.
 

Juin

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Messages
589
Reaction score
101
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Why can’t Israel pay for their own defense?


It's a little more complicated than that. Her Serene Majesty and Muslima Ilan Omar is not trying to save the taxpayer a fistful of dollars. It is more the first step in the Jihad against Israel. If and when Her Serene Majesty overcomes that first obstacle, then the much obliging and unsophisticated Uncle Sam can be coaxed to take another gulp from the bitter chalice. It will be pointed out to our much obliging and unsophisticated Uncle Sam that the right thing to do would be to immediately fund an Iron Dome in Gaza Strip. To not do so would expose Uncle Sam to be nothing but a vile bigot; oozing Islamophobia at every pore. If any kids are hit in Gaza from Israeli rockets, Uncle Sam's failure to fund rockets in Gaza would have to bear responsibility. And I am sure a by now y thoroughly chastened Uncle Sam, cringing from shrieks of Islamophobia, is ready to came one more time.
 
Last edited:

Tlrmln

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2019
Messages
10,341
Reaction score
3,814
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib struck down the funding for Israel's defensive Iron Dome system -- and for what? Because it's a defensive system that saves lives from incoming missiles that would otherwise take lives.



Why should the US pay to defend Israel, when our own country is falling apart and hundreds of thousands of people here are living in the streets?
 
Top Bottom