• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

[W:171] AOC and ‘Squad’ Defund Israel’s Iron Dome Defence System from Democrats’ $1Bn Spending Bill

DarkWizard12

Sir Poop A lot
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
11,341
Reaction score
2,416
Location
Tyler TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
Finally, AOC and the squad did something to make conservatives happy! America first! MAGA!

Imagine sending a billion dollars to Israel instead of spending it on Americans. Conservatives must be jumping for joy.
MAGA wants many jews and christians to die at the hands of hamas in the middle east?

Why would they want that? It doesn't seem like they support that. It seems like, it's the progressive democrats that want that to happen.
 

pamak

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
10,273
Reaction score
2,836
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
they're not financing their economy, they're replenishing the Iron Dome.
BS!
The country has an advanced economy and the Iron Dome has been developed in israel. They are more than capable of covering the cost from their own taxes. In essence, we subsidize their economy.. As I said, such foreign help should be used to help Haitians to replace their houses.
 

TomFitz

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
11,866
Reaction score
7,674
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
America could never be defeated from the outside but it is been destroyed from within.

Yes, we know. You were hoping that your failed fool’s gold fuhrer was going to turn it into a facist state.
 

Loulit01

Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
2,324
Reaction score
1,802
Location
I'm right here on the left.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Are you for or against MAGA, and what does MAGA have to do with Israel?

Are you aware of the history behind the Iron Dome?
I'm against hypocracy. I'm against enriching the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about. I'm against sending $1 billion to Israel while we have a housing crises, a healthcare disaster, a collapsing infrastructure, and an immigration nightmare right here.

Israel will be fine.

The United States approved over $3.8 billion in foreign assistance to Israel in 2019, the most recent year of complete data. About $8.5 million of that aid went towards the economy, and the remainder went to the Israeli military. This is part of the 10-year, $38 billion Memorandum of Understanding signed in 2016. It is the third agreement of its kind, following two signed during the George W. Bush and Clinton administrations. The agreement supports updating the Israeli aircraft fleet and maintaining the country's missile defense system. The deal provides $500 million in missile defense funding and $3.3 billion in other military funding per year from 2019 to 2028.


What are we defending Israel from? Klingon Starships with proton torpedos? Israel will be fine.

I'm pro-Israel. But this program isn't for Israel. It's to enrich defense contractors and their stockholders. We'd jump in to defend Israel in a heartbeat if it were seriously threatened and every Arab country knows it.
 

DarkWizard12

Sir Poop A lot
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
11,341
Reaction score
2,416
Location
Tyler TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
obama-wtf.gif
The country has an advanced economy
and? So do we. We're the US.
and the Iron Dome has been developed in israel.
Good! Let's hope they can come up with even more advanced systems.
They are more than capable of covering the cost.
Are they really though? It's a small country. A developed country, sure, but small, and any defensive capability is going to be far more expensive than any cheaply made rocket used against them. If it were a 1-to-1 cost ratio, i would agree, but that's simply not the case.
As I said, such foreign help should be used to help Haitians to replace their houses.
why? Haitis are the ones choosing to migrate over here, let them help themselves.
 

JANFU

Not quite there yet, but getting close
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
37,023
Reaction score
13,213
Location
Best Coast Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Does anyone think the funding will not be restored?
 

NolanVoyd

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
3,767
Reaction score
1,760
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib struck down the funding for Israel's defensive Iron Dome system -- and for what? Because it's a defensive system that saves lives from incoming missiles that would otherwise take lives.


They are just being fiscally conservative.

Why are American taxpayers paying for Isreals defense system? They are a wealthy country with a healthy economy. They collect taxes.

Israeli tax payers should be paying for this not American tax payers.
 

pamak

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
10,273
Reaction score
2,836
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
View attachment 67355156

and? So do we. We're the US.

Good! Let's hope they can come up with even more advanced systems.

Are they really though? It's a small country. A developed country, sure, but small, and any defensive capability is going to be far more expensive than any cheaply made rocket used against them. If it were a 1-to-1 cost ratio, i would agree, but that's simply not the case.

why? Haitis are the ones choosing to migrate over here, let them help themselves.
So, there is no need to give ..money to people in advanced economies. When the Israelis decide to give us free money for our needs, then I will change my mind. Meanwhile, we. can send the money to Haiti if you don't want to help the immigrants in the US. It ridiculous to have such discussions for Israel when we even use tariffs to protect US interests from friends like Canadians!
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
26,011
Reaction score
22,669
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
In a multi $$$$ trillion budget this act by the squad is only symbolic. Any idea what that symbolism might be?

If budgetary waste is a concern there are many other areas which should be of concern, moreso than assisting another democracy in it's own defense. Much of the technology involved is American, being co-produced in America, and will also be used in America's defense system.

But I'll wager that the leftists know nothing of this but, in true leftist ignorance, automatically move against Israel.
That did not answer my question, at all.
 

Loulit01

Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
2,324
Reaction score
1,802
Location
I'm right here on the left.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
You can't spell MAGA without "Israel."
Then we ain't spelling MAGA.

Jeremy Shere: If you’re an American Jew, chances are you're going to vote for Joe Biden in the upcoming presidential election. Because since the 1930s, the overwhelming majority of Jews in the United States — around 70% — have consistently favored the Democrats over the Republicans.

https://associationforjewishstudies...y-most-american-jews-are-democrats-transcript

For most of the 20th century since 1936, the vast majority of Jews in the United States have been aligned with the Democratic Party. Towards the end of the 20th century, and at the beginning of the 21st century, Republicans have launched initiatives to persuade American Jews to support Republican policies.


Why most American Jews vote for Democrats, explained​



Party affiliation among Jews​


 

Lycanthrope

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
865
Reaction score
799
Location
Arrakis
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
For most of the 20th century since 1936, the vast majority of Jews in the United States have been aligned with the Democratic Party.
Clearly American Jews don't know what's best for them. Thankfully they have Republicans/Trumplicans looking out for them, no matter how ungrateful they may be.
 

Tbird19482

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
4,530
Reaction score
1,763
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Wow, I never thought the Squad would adapt Trumpist positions, America first and screw everyone else.
When Trump did it it was ok with the right but now the Dems aredoing it they aregoing to cry about it
it is another case of don't do as we do do as we want you to do
have a nice night
 

Dayton3

DP Veteran
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
10,027
Reaction score
1,407
Location
Smackover, AR.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
BS!
The country has an advanced economy and the Iron Dome has been developed in israel. They are more than capable of covering the cost from their own taxes. In essence, we subsidize their economy.. As I said, such foreign help should be used to help Haitians to replace their houses.
Well technically a big chunk of the U.S. military aid to Israel they plow back into purchasing U.S. military hardware.
 

Antiwar

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Messages
13,414
Reaction score
2,306
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Progressive
Quote:

As the House prepared to consider its short-term government funding bill on Wednesday, representative Ilhan Omar said the US should not sell weapons to “human rights abusers."

“We sold $175 billion in weapons last year – more than anyone in the world – to some of the worst human right abusers in the world,” she said on Twitter.

End quote.


Comment:

Absolutely! I'd go much further than that: The US should not sell weapons.
 

DarkWizard12

Sir Poop A lot
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
11,341
Reaction score
2,416
Location
Tyler TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
So, there is no need to give ..money to people in advanced economies.
I think if there's security concerns, then i think it is admirable for advanced nations to work together, and is actually a bad trait of other like nations to refuse and cease cooperation. We're a community of free nations, and when one is under attack, then we all are. Civilization will be sure to regress to barbarity if we refuse to act as a community.

When the Israelis decide to give us free money for our needs,
They're a small nation with high security concerns. Idk if you've looked at the map, but....

religmap.gif

If their neighbors were like canada, it'd be one thing, but that's simply not the case.
then I will change my mind. Meanwhile, we. can send the money to Haiti if you don't want to help the immigrants in the US.
They are choosing to migrate here, from their own countries, when they never had a need to do so. Most israelis never had the choice, and were jews who were kicked out of their host countries like Poland, Iraq, Syria, Germany, etc...of which israel was one of the few countries to open the doors for them.

It ridiculous to have such discussions for Israel when we even use tariffs to protect US interests from friends like Canadians!
uhhh, tariffs were used against israel too

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-fails-to-win-exemption-to-us-steel-aluminum-tariffs-report/
 

Schism

Excellent Point
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
5,064
Reaction score
1,971
Location
Eugene, Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
:rolleyes:
Let Israel pay for their own defense.

Let Central American countries pay for it's own citizens repatriation from our border.

Let the homeless pay for their own trash cleanup.

Let the lazy unemployed layabouts pay for their bills.

Let criminals pay for their crimes.

Let the Portland rioters pay for damages.

The left know nothing of "paying their own way". They expect mommies and the gov't to cover their rent.
 

armycowboy

The Dark Lord
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
9,463
Reaction score
6,742
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Let Central American countries pay for it's own citizens repatriation from our border.

Let the homeless pay for their own trash cleanup.

Let the lazy unemployed layabouts pay for their bills.

Let criminals pay for their crimes.

Let the Portland rioters pay for damages.

The left know nothing of "paying their own way". They expect mommies and the gov't to cover their rent.
Nice rant, but you still haven't demonstrated why we should be paying for another sovereign nation's defense. Want to give that a shot, rather than ranting about leftists and providing stupid bumper sticker slogans. Thanks in advance.
 

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
34,922
Reaction score
23,774
Location
Southern England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Nice rant, but you still haven't demonstrated why we should be paying for another sovereign nation's defense. Want to give that a shot, rather than ranting about leftists and providing stupid bumper sticker slogans. Thanks in advance.

All this whining about poor Israel from the same people who complain about American World Police role subsidising Europe's defence....
 

Surrealistik

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
7,691
Reaction score
3,489
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib struck down the funding for Israel's defensive Iron Dome system -- and for what? Because it's a defensive system that saves lives from incoming missiles that would otherwise take lives.


To add some very relevant context:


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi must pass the bill by September 30 to keep the government funded through the start of December. She needs all hands on deck to pass the budgetary bill, and could not afford to lose progressive votes because no Republican is willing to support it.

Pelosi may have originally calculated that adding the Iron Dome funding would be a way to entice Republicans, but this did not bring any onboard

New York Rep. Jamaal Bowman told Bloomberg that the problem was that the Iron Dome provision had been added in at the last minute, and that there had been no proper discussion.

“It’s not about Israel, it’s about, once again, leadership, throwing something on our table last minute and expecting us to decide in five minutes what to do with it, that’s the bigger problem,” Bowman said.

Explaining the reasoning behind some in the progressive caucus’s refusal to back the funding, a source familiar with the matter told ToI, “It was being added to an unrelated bill to keep the government open, with zero strings attached.”

I agree with the progs.

Last minute no-strings-attached billion just tossed at a country that can easily afford to pay for their own defense, and the Iron Dome, done in a futile attempt to entice Republicans ostensibly. That outlay clearly doesn't need to be there.

Again, we don't need to provide money, without strings, to an advanced economy that can more than afford to pay its own way.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom