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[W:#151]House passes anti-trans youth treatment bill

I don't want to take parents, I want to take (and save) the children.
Punishing parents for approved medical procedures that most children (really teenagers) want and are actually approved for is not going to save any children. It will only do harm. The same is true for punishing doctors under these circumstances, with these laws. That is not going to help at all.
 
But trying to jail those parents who would allow those pregnancies or even sex to take place under age is going to be counterproductive and not make anything better, even if everyone's outcomes were worse by having children below 25.
There is a sliding scale between NO SEX.....and advising someone to get pregnant. Can we agree on that?
If so, at what point does responsible parenting turn sour? Is it when a parent advocates pregnancy, or is it inviting 16 yr old boyfriends to sleep over with your 15 yr old daughter, or is it somewhere else?
I don't really want to jail them, but I do want parents held to a better standard because they, like teachers, hold lives in the balance, which affects us all.

And it seems like all we ever do is excuse bad behavior and poor performance. The latest one is with racism.
 
Punishing parents for approved medical procedures that most children (really teenagers) want and are actually approved for is not going to save any children. It will only do harm. The same is true for punishing doctors under these circumstances, with these laws. That is not going to help at all.
Then they need to learn how to tell their children NO, or to wait until they come of age. Or they could post the 'harm' that comes from waiting.
 
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There is a sliding scale between NO SEX.....and advising someone to get pregnant. Can we agree on that?
If so, at what point does responsible parenting turn sour? Is it when a parent advocates pregnancy, or is it inviting 16 yr old boyfriends to sleep over with your 15 yr old daughter, or is it somewhere else?
I don't really want to jail them, but I do want parents held to a better standard because they, like teachers, hold lives in the balance, which affects us all.

And it seems like all we ever do is excuse bad behavior and poor performance. The latest one is with racism.
Parents aren't advising their children to get this surgery, but rather supporting it. But some parents are advising their children to get pregnant early. There are a couple of religious sectors that this is what is happening, especially for women/girls. But some parents are willing to support their children when they do get pregnant, get someone pregnant without berating that, even letting them know beforehand that they will support it. But these are private medical decisions.
 
That's Sweden, not US. And Sweden does not make it a child abuse crime punishable by life in prison to support such therapies either.

A review in the Uk found the evidence in favor of blockers is very poor quality.

Look, it's not that it's sweden or the UK, etc, it's that the studies in favor of the treatments are not as clear as you may want to believe.
 
A review in the Uk found the evidence in favor of blockers is very poor quality.

Look, it's not that it's sweden or the UK, etc, it's that the studies in favor of the treatments are not as clear as you may want to believe.
But no studies agree to this being child abuse. No studies say well since it isn't 100% supporting these is abusive to children, doing harm to children.
 
You seem to be completely missing my position. I don't approve of this law because it is essentially doing what you are saying I'm advocating for, taking away parental rights in regards to their children.

We should change the age of marriage allowed to 18 for all. If exceptions are made, it should only be for those who are emancipated. But it still should not be any sort of reason for a parent or others to be charged with child abuse because they support younger ages of marriage.

Consent for sex during teen years should have exceptions (Romeo and Juliet type). But I'm not actually advocating for changes that make it abuse to allow such encounters. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in this law compared to other things that are allowed that are life changing decisions, that may or may not be regretted, but parents and others are not charged with child abuse for.
Parental rights cease where parental abuse begins. Permitting quacks to interfere with the natural and healthy sexual development of a child's body is no less abusive than binding a Chinese girl's feet so she won't be able to run away from her husband later in life or by hacking off a muslim girl's clitoris so she won't suffer the sin of enjoying sex later in life.
 
Puberty blockers are not elective surgery, and they are reversible.

Masks do work as they are designed to work. They are not designed to "block the virus" and no medical professional has ever claimed they are. They are designed to reduce the chances of the virus getting into your body. No one ever claimed they block the virus. No one ever claimed they made anyone immune to infection, or that they are impenetrable. More to the point: Medical professionals wore cloth masks when dealing with infected people every day before and after the pandemic. Why do you think they did this? Do you think that in spite of dedicating their lives to educating themselves on and understanding their profession of healthcare, a profession that they work every day of their lives, that they are actually just dumber than you are about how viruses work?

Do you wear a seatbelt when you drive your car? Are you aware that more than half of the people killed in car accidents each year are wearing seatbelts? Does this mean seatbelts don't work?

Masks don't do crap to stop the spread of viruses to the general public. They work to some degree to stop the surgical staff bending over someone's open abdomen from spewing spittle and boogers into the incision, but they still don't stop viruses. Masks are as effective at stopping viruses as chain-link fences are at stopping mosquitoes.

Why do I think nurses and doctors wore masks when they came into contact with hundreds of sick people every day? If masks were so wonderful, why weren't they wearing them when they were exposed to OTHER sick people with OTHER airborne contagions?

Everyone wore masks made out of paper or t-shirt material. They did nothing and served as woke decorations only. Just ask anyone that went through Mark V gas-mask training in the military what's required of an effective air filtration system. T-shirt's don't hack it.

But mask wearing is a really good sign of the obedient tool. Unless the mask says "Let's Go Brandon". Then they apparently don't work and peopel wearing them can be arbitrarily thrown off airplanes at the whim of the Travel Gauleiters monitoring the aircraft cabin.

Do you know that many people in Los Angeles are so stupid they wear a diaper over their faces when they are alone in their own car with the windows closed?

Since the disease has been proven to be treatable, what is the point in mask-fascism now?

Back to the thread topic:
Puberty is an essential step between childhood and physical adult maturity and more importantly a major psychological and social change in the adolescent's development. Sure, puberty blocking MAY be "reversible", but not the psychological effects of going through puberty at 19 when all their peers went through the proper social adjustments a third of a lifetime earlier, together. Interfering with a body's natural and healthy growth is "harm" by any definition. There's no valid reason to interfere with healthy normal growth. It should be celebrated and encouraged, not "blocked".

A child with a delusion that it should be the other sex isn't being helped when parents and quacks and teachers and public officials seek to feed the delusion rather than confronting it.
 
Hmmmm..... 9000 gender reassignment surgeries in the US per year. Safe to assume only a small portion of those are under 18 years old?

40,000 gun deaths per year in the US. Quite a few dead or children now missing a parent.

The GOP - We need less govt interference in our lives. You can't make laws to prevent gun deaths because they would interfere with my rights.

Abortion. GOP - we are going to force you to follow our beliefs.

Education. GOP - we have to protect the parents rights to protest and threaten public educators. Keep parents safe from big govt just for trying to disrupt school meetings and prevent educators working.

Then, back to things like gender reassignmemt, abortion etc.

GOP - govt has to interfere in your lives to make sure that you follow our beliefs.

Anyone else noting the hypocrisy?

Personally, I have mixed feelings on most of these topics so not trying to argue the rights and wrongs. Just noting how funny it is to see the Dems arguing that govt should not interfere in some very personal choices, while the GOP want to play the 'Big Brother' that they accuse the Dems of being.
 
You can't get ivermectin without a prescription from a doctor either.... Point being, there's no shortage of doctors willing to do pretty much whatever you ask if it will make them a buck.
Does the AMA back ivermectin? It doesn't, which is why your comparison is ridiculous. Literally every major medical organization is against this bill and others like it.
 
"On a near-party-line vote, the Idaho House on Tuesday HB 675, Nampa Rep. Bruce Skaug's bill to make it a felony to provide gender care to transgender youth, including hormones, after a searing debate that touched on life and death, rights, God and more; there were tears shed. In the end, the only Republican to vote against the bill was the House's only physician, Dr. Fred Wood, R-Burley, who joined all 12 House Democrats in the 55-13 vote. Two Republicans missed the vote. The bill now moves to the Senate.

Skaug told the House, “We need to stop sterilizing and mutilating children under the age of 18.” He said his bill would protect “boys and girls who have their genitals mutilated by chemicals or surgery for purposes of changing their birth sex.” The bill passed, 55-13, and now moves to the Senate. Though mainstream medicine in the United States holds otherwise, he maintained that transgender children “if allowed to go through puberty, outgrow their problem and accept their bodies over time.”

Lawmakers with transgender relatives or friends sharply disagreed. Rep. Ilana Rubel, D-Boise, remembered asking a friend if she was "really, really sure" about allowing her teenager to begin gender transition hormones, only to learn, "This is obviously not a step that a family takes lightly. This is a step that comes after literally thousands of hours of agonizing." "This is the heaviest imaginable hand of government overriding family decisions on the most critical and frankly in many cases life-threatening questions," Rubel told the House. By forcing people to wait until after puberty to begin a transition, she said, in many cases the transition becomes much more difficult because gender characteristics become so much more pronounced, including things like stature. "You are really messing with their lives until their dying day," she said.


The bill would make it a felony, punishable by life in prison, not only to provide the treatment in question, but to provide permission for a minor to receive it, or to permit a minor to travel out of state to receive it."

Link

This is a form of genocide.
<SARC>[/BYagotta keep them wierdos innerplace. Sides they probublie vote leftie.</SARC>[/B
 
I don't want to take parents, I want to take (and save) the children.

That's a phrase that QAnon uses as well.
 
Masks don't do crap to stop the spread of viruses to the general public. They work to some degree to stop the surgical staff bending over someone's open abdomen from spewing spittle and boogers into the incision, but they still don't stop viruses. Masks are as effective at stopping viruses as chain-link fences are at stopping mosquitoes.

Why do I think nurses and doctors wore masks when they came into contact with hundreds of sick people every day? If masks were so wonderful, why weren't they wearing them when they were exposed to OTHER sick people with OTHER airborne contagions?

Everyone wore masks made out of paper or t-shirt material. They did nothing and served as woke decorations only. Just ask anyone that went through Mark V gas-mask training in the military what's required of an effective air filtration system. T-shirt's don't hack it.

But mask wearing is a really good sign of the obedient tool. Unless the mask says "Let's Go Brandon". Then they apparently don't work and peopel wearing them can be arbitrarily thrown off airplanes at the whim of the Travel Gauleiters monitoring the aircraft cabin.

Do you know that many people in Los Angeles are so stupid they wear a diaper over their faces when they are alone in their own car with the windows closed?

Since the disease has been proven to be treatable, what is the point in mask-fascism now?

Back to the thread topic:
Puberty is an essential step between childhood and physical adult maturity and more importantly a major psychological and social change in the adolescent's development. Sure, puberty blocking MAY be "reversible", but not the psychological effects of going through puberty at 19 when all their peers went through the proper social adjustments a third of a lifetime earlier, together. Interfering with a body's natural and healthy growth is "harm" by any definition. There's no valid reason to interfere with healthy normal growth. It should be celebrated and encouraged, not "blocked".

A child with a delusion that it should be the other sex isn't being helped when parents and quacks and teachers and public officials seek to feed the delusion rather than confronting it.
Way to avoid answering the question, :ROFLMAO:!

That masks are effective at lessening the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic is settled science. They are proven effective. Of course they work. And they were never political. Those who honestly believe masks don't work to lessen the chances of contracting an airborne virus are equivalent to those who don't wear seatbelts because you can still die in a car accident while wearing a seat belt. They simply aren't using their heads.

Children with gender dysphoria are not cured or treated through "confrontation." It has been repeatedly established that ignoring their gender dysphoria usually does far more harm to the child in the long run. Confrontation does at least the same amount of harm with the added effect of destroying trust between the child and the parent. Gender dysphoria must be treated or the outcomes start to become grim. Gender transitioning is a scientifically proven treatment for gender dysphoria. In the vast majority of cases, it has been found to improve all aspects of a child's life, including cognitive functioning, social interaction, and overall well being.

https://www.hrc.org/resources/transgender-children-and-youth-understanding-the-basics
https://childmind.org/article/transgender-teens-gender-dysphoria/
https://www.webmd.com/parenting/what-is-transitioning
https://theconversation.com/im-a-pe...hat-improve-lives-of-transgender-youth-157285
https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/most-gender-dysphoria-established-by-age-7-study-finds/#:~:text=The study findings revealed that,gender dysphoria by age 7.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.632784/full
https://whatweknow.inequality.corne...y-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18981931/
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/12/e018121
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0243894
 
Absolutely agree with this bill. If a person wants to have elective surgery to alter their appearance, it needs to be a decision made by an adult. Providing hormone blockers to someone pre puberty or altering their physical appearance is child abuse.
Evidence?
 
yes, adults who decide to trans have that right.

I didn't say "adults" only. I said "people", which includes those under the age of an adult. You purposely took my words and made them what fitted your narrative. Unless you were being snarky or failed to comprehend, that's disingenuous.
 
That's not how science works. It would be up to the pro medical intervention side to show efficacy and safety with quality, long term studies - especially with kids. Sadly, that is not quite happening.

What, exactly, did is say that you're refuting and why? What did I say that makes you assume that I'm not recognizing how science works or not consider it is a factor, and why? Please clarify.
 
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